Ninjaman12R
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posted March 14, 2005 06:10 AM
Brake Fluid and Coolant Questions....
I have started the spring ritual and am attempting to get Lil' Red in riding condition. Being that she has still got the brake fluid that was in her the day I bought her, I figure it's time for a change. Way past time to be exact. What's a good brake fluid to go with???
Also, I haven't changed the coolant in a couple years. I'm gonna do that as well. I've been using DexCool with water wetter added. But recently I've heard bad things about DexCool so it has me wondering if I should switch to something else??? What do you guys think I should run? Straight Budweiser??? Just piss in it??? 
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redelk
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posted March 14, 2005 06:49 AM
Brake Fluid - Castrol SRF. Read about it here, http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=1&TID=15636 It might seem to be expensive, but seeing how often you change, it's cheap. After you finish COMPLETELY flushing the front and rear systems, you end up using half a can.
Cooolant - you could have Harry and Otis piss in it. The only problem is you would not be able to get Bart off of either one as soon as they unzipped their pants.
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There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
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Ninjaman12R
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posted March 14, 2005 07:35 AM
Thanks Sherm, I'll check out the brake fluid.
You think the DexCool is ok????
Yeah Bart, would be on the boyz quick like!!!
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What we're dealin' with here is a complete lack of respect for the law.
Sheriff Buford T. Justice of TEXAS
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canadamaxxer
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posted March 14, 2005 08:25 AM
 Edited By: canadamaxxer on 14 Mar 2005 08:26
My experiences with Dexcool have been less than satisfactory. It seems to be prone to more leaking, and when it begins to deteriorate....look out....it's a huge mess.
I don't see what the problem is with the green coolant (ethylene glycol). So a person has to change is every year.....so what? It's not that big of a deal. I just change mine every fall, using 50/50 coolant and distilled water...add the appropriate amount of water wetter and I'm finished. It only takes 2L of both water and coolant. It's more trouble to get the air out of the system than anything else. We have to use 50/50 up here because of the cold winters....but if it didn't get so cold I would change the ratio to about 30/70 or so. We're in a bad position here....we get really cold winters and stupidly hot summers....but you can't even take a chance on draining the coolant over the winter, simply because you may end up with a pocket of coolant sitting somewhere, having it freeze and expand, and then cracking a block, rad, etc. Now once I get my heated shop......
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Ninjaman12R
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posted March 14, 2005 08:39 AM
Yeah, I think I'm gonna get away from the DexCool too.
Any of you guys ever ran "Engine Ice"?
I've read a few good things about it and thought I might give it a try.
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What we're dealin' with here is a complete lack of respect for the law.
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redelk
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posted March 14, 2005 09:32 AM
As far as coolant goes, I've just run that orange shit from Prestone. Don't know if that's a "DexCool" type or not, but it's supposed to be go for 60 months. Not that it ever stayed in there for that long. I couldn't go six months without pulling the radiator for some reason or another. Not due to a problem... just tinkering.
All I know about Engine Ice is that most racing sanctioning bodies like WERA, CMRA and others treat it like regular anti-freeze and will not allow it in race bikes that will be on the track. Besides that, that's all I heard about it. I guess you just want to be sure that it has anti-corrosive properties to it.
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There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
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vozizm
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posted March 14, 2005 09:41 AM
TB suggested ya run 80% distilled water and water wetter... and that what i did last weekend..
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Ninjaman12R
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posted March 14, 2005 09:52 AM
Thanks Sherm, as always I appreciate your opinion.
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ZX12Boricua
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posted March 14, 2005 11:32 AM
I'm with Voz, distilled water, water weeter and 15% cooland.
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Scooter
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posted March 14, 2005 11:56 AM
I'm running Engine Ice. Temp needle runs a notch cooler during normal riding. Still heats up to where the fan will cycle in stop and go traffic. Does seem to cycle quicker though, not that I've really timed it.
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redelk
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posted March 14, 2005 01:30 PM
Of course, we run Water Wetter in the race bikes and don't have a problem with the fans kicking on. Oh wait... they don't have fans. Never mind.
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There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
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TurboBlew
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posted March 14, 2005 03:19 PM
Rick.... YOU PUSSY.
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franz131
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posted March 14, 2005 05:47 PM
Just a bit of info for what its worth.
SRF is all out race fluid. It needs to be bled regularly as it will pull moisture through plastic and rubber lines. The extra you think you have left in the can will gradually increase until you have a full can again! Overkill for bikes, even for racing, and more work than its worth. DOT 5.1 non-silicone offers better performance than DOT 4 and is a long life product.
Auto coolants contain silicates which help scrub scale from the coolant passages of your Buick or erode the water pump impeller of your ZX. Look for products that do not contain them or buy bike specific stuff, some of it even comes premixed 50/50 with distilled water.
Franz
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vozizm
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posted March 15, 2005 06:11 AM
i used de-ionized water...
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Ninjaman12R
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posted March 15, 2005 07:09 AM
STFU Steve..........
quote:
- by TurboDogFucker - Rick.... YOU PUSSY.
How do you feel about digesting some shoe leather motherfucker????
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redelk
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posted March 15, 2005 09:15 AM
Edited By: redelk on 15 Mar 2005 09:15
Franz, I've used SRF in both my 12R and 10R, as well on on numerous endurance road racing bikes (running 4, 5, 6 and 8 hour events) for a couple of years and have never had any of the problems you mentioned. "Overkill" is "subjective". After trying several brands in a "blind test" with my riders, each and everyone of them selected SRF as there preferred choice. Again, without knowing which brand it was.
On the other hand, the comments concerning DOT 5.1 fluid in the above mentioned thread speaks for itself. I know of no one rider or team in CMRA, WERA or CCS that uses DOT 5.1. Not saying that there isn't someone using it, but from what I have seen, it is either SRF or Motul for endurance racing. There must be a method to their "madness". It might have something to do with years of experience.
If Ninjaman wishes to save a few dollars, I'm sure Motul would be just fine. The most import part of changing any brake fluid is the process of completely draining the old fluid, flushing out the system with fresh fluid and then filling/bleeding the system with additional fresh fluid. When done in this fashion, one could easily go through 300+ cc of fluid on a single bike. Of course, it doesn't hurt to have speed bleeders on the bike. Even when using a MightyVac.
Some folks will trash the remaining amount rather than store it and this is completely understandable, if it is going to be for an extended period of time. Seeing as how I'm working on numerous bikes (dirt, race and street), a one liter can is short lived on my shelf.
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There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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franz131
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posted March 15, 2005 12:00 PM
Experience is always better than conjecture. I have only participated in sprint races and am willing to believe that endurance racing may produce different results.
But I thought we were talking street use, where SRF isn't going to see the maintenance it needs. It clearly provides superior performance for racing, but its benefit's cannot be exploited on the street.
I always suggest that people use the best stuff, and M/C specific if possible. brake fluid is a situation where better is perfect and best (SRF) is overkill.
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redelk
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posted March 15, 2005 03:59 PM
quote:
I thought we were talking street use, where SRF isn't going to see the maintenance it needs. It clearly provides superior performance for racing, but its benefit's cannot be exploited on the street.
I always suggest that people use the best stuff, and M/C specific if possible. brake fluid is a situation where better is perfect and best (SRF) is overkill.
VERY VALID AND REASONABLE POINTS! In reality, seeing as how Ninjaman does not "service" his brake system at quite the same "intervals" as some of us, Motul ought to be just fine for him. On the other hand, even though he has lost weight, slowin' down his ass might still require the best money could buy.
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There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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Ninjaman12R
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posted March 15, 2005 04:51 PM
quote:
even though he has lost weight, slowin' down his ass might still require the best money could buy.
Shazam!!!
Yer right Sherm, it still takes some pretty good binders to haul me down. Even though I am 55lbs. lighter, 240lbs. is still not light. Maybe a good heroin addiction could get me down in the 190s?????? 
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What we're dealin' with here is a complete lack of respect for the law.
Sheriff Buford T. Justice of TEXAS
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redelk
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posted March 16, 2005 12:26 AM
Edited By: redelk on 16 Mar 2005 00:26
quote:
Maybe a good heroin addiction could get me down in the 190s??????
You might want to stay away from drugs that involve a spoon (i.e. heroin, crack, etc.). You might get distracted and go for the ice cream instead. Stick with meth that is "clean", "cook's cut" and made with P2P only. After all, you are worth only the best, right? Now that will be so serious "go fast" and you will need the SRF brake fluid. 
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There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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slug
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posted March 16, 2005 03:32 AM
hehehe.
after you bleed that brake system, do the Cyclenerd Voodoo trick, pump up the pressure, and tie the lever back (hold pressure) overnight.
not sure why this works, but man oh man it WORKS. (about dumped my bike the day after i did this, in the DRIVEWAY. went for the brakes like 'normal' and it stopped NOW, not a little later, not after a moment's indecision, but RFN.
(i'll mention that the bike had 5 year old OEM rubber hoses on it, and needed 1 finger to launch the rear of the bike towards ths sky..)
anyway best of luck on the fluid change, that brake fluid change makes a WORLD of difference, with or without the voodoo trick.
As far as the silicates issue goes, it is an anti-corrosive agent, not a 'scrubbing bubbles' sort of deal...(it is there to protect the aluminum parts). The negative on the silicates is that it can form a gel-like buildup in places. changing frequently to maintain proper pH is the asnwer for this problem. a few links and applicable quotes
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4000079.html
quote:
1. Anticorrosive additive for aqueous solutions consisting essentially of an effective amount of a conventional corrosion inhibitor selected from the group consisting of sodium carbonate, sodium nitrite, sodium nitrate, borax, sodium dichromate, sodium silicate,
http://www.advancedantifreeze.com/toppage1.htm
quote:
Standard engine coolants come in two types, automotive and heavy-duty. Conventional coolants provide aluminum corrosion protection with the addition of silicates.
http://www.angelfire.com/ia2/vmax/coolantnotes.htm
quote:
Cooling System Metals
(a discussion from the Triumph Car list)
....There are a number of metals present in automotive cooling systems. The most common metals are cast iron, mild steel, copper, brass, aluminum, high-lead and low-lead solder alloys. Generally speaking, the corrosion of metals is prevented by the formation of a stable film at their surfaces. This film might be formed by corrosion products, as when aluminum is exposed to air, or by the adsorption of some other chemical, such as silicates, onto the surface.
quote:
What coolant should I use?
....If you are willing to religiously flush and change your coolant annually, any aluminum compatible coolant will do. "Aluminum compatible" are usually the code words for "contains silicates". As long as a decent silicate concentration is maintained, the presence of phosphate is unimportant. Aluminum corrosion was extemely low in the presence of phosphate, as long as the silicates were not depleted. Aluminum corrosion rapidly accelerates once the silicate concentration drops. If you are not up to annual changes, a phosphate-free, aluminum compatible coolant may be the best choice.
http://www.webacorp.com/technicalresources-artic3.html
http://www.webacorp.com/technicalresources-artic2.html
quote:
There are some inherent problems associated with antifreeze technologies generally available on the market in each of these categories. These problems, or at least potential problems are summarized below:
1) Conventional universal antifreezes (i.e. those based on inorganic salt inhibitor systems) contain silicate, which is the only widely practiced non-carboxylate technology for protecting aluminum. Silicate is, unfortunately, the most problematic of all inhibitor package ingredients. Certain impurities and certain conditions (such as low pH) can cause it to precipitate. If not properly stabilized with a silane, silicate can form an inorganic polymer to create the not uncommon silica gel.
  
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Ninjaman12R
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posted March 16, 2005 05:44 AM
Baskin Robins here I come!!!
quote:
You might want to stay away from drugs that involve a spoon (i.e. heroin, crack, etc.). You might get distracted and go for the ice cream instead.
DOH!!!!!!!!!!! Damn Sherm, your harsh on a brother.
Slug,
I'll definitely try the Cyclenerd Voodoo trick. You just pump up the pressure and tie the lever back??? Do you open the bleeders once more after doing that??? Interesting to say the least.
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What we're dealin' with here is a complete lack of respect for the law.
Sheriff Buford T. Justice of TEXAS
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harryzx-12
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posted March 16, 2005 04:11 PM
Ricks on crack already.... Barts that is!
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slug
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posted March 16, 2005 06:58 PM
nope just leave them closed.
in the morning take the tie off (i use a short bungie cord) and ride CAREFULLY
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Ninjaman12R
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posted March 17, 2005 04:25 AM
Cool...
Thanks Slug, I will most definitely give it a try.
Harry,
You ain't right son, ya just ain't right. You're still my nigga though........
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What we're dealin' with here is a complete lack of respect for the law.
Sheriff Buford T. Justice of TEXAS
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