VincentHill
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posted November 23, 2004 08:20 AM
Muzzy Stealth?? DM??
DM / anybody? When I looked at the Muzzy Stealth system, I saw that it said 70 HP with stock pistons, but did not see what the max was on the system. I see that it hooks up to the main fuel pump because of the Regulator and mentions some type of adaptor assembly that is extra but no link to it or price?
My question is, how does it hook up to the main fuel pump and would you have to buy the higher volume and pressure Muzzy pump to make this work if you ran the higher HP?
I am thinking about moving away from the external fuel pump on my system and using a bypass regulator but feel that I would need a larger volume and pressure Fuel pump to handle what I have to make 350 or so HP. Some one I know wanted to use my set up but I told them that I think they would be better off spending the time to install the Muzzy but did not have the answers for these questions for either case.
Like using the stacks and spray nozzles.
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted November 23, 2004 08:26 AM
 Edited By: your car is slow on 23 Nov 2004 08:27
id think at those fuel requirements...upping the pressure for the main line is simply not going to cut it....IMO the external pump just to supply fuel to the fuel noids would be your best bet!
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MadMike
Moderator
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posted November 23, 2004 09:50 AM
We had a 120 shot on DWB's bike.
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VincentHill
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posted November 23, 2004 10:38 AM
Thanks MM, TB, I already have an external pump on my bike but wanted to make the system "Simpler". With the extra pump, I have to run a fuel switch which is not 2 things that can go wrong and stop a run. With a main fuel pump (even a larger one) if the main pump fails, the injector pressure will shut off the engine and the run is over anyway. With the 2 pump system, the main pump can shut off but we would still have spray 
My cousin already said that my bike is starting to look like a Jet Engine with the covers off! 
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superchuck12
Novice Class
Posts: 40
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posted November 23, 2004 12:37 PM
Hello,Muzzy says the stock pump is good for about 200 hp,if your running a big-bore and or stroker making 200+ hp you may not have enough fuel delivery. The high pressure-high volume pump is a good safety measure IMO.Chuck
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VincentHill
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posted November 23, 2004 12:45 PM
quote:
Hello,Muzzy says the stock pump is good for about 200 hp,if your running a big-bore and or stroker making 200+ hp you may not have enough fuel delivery. The high pressure-high volume pump is a good safety measure IMO.Chuck
Now we are getting somewhere. All I need to know is if it will handle the fuel requirements for about 350 HP (give or take 25 HP) on a Wet NOS System??
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MadMike
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posted November 23, 2004 01:10 PM
I am almost positive the high flow is good to up to 400HP. that is what we ran on my bike and DWB's..
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NINJA12
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posted November 23, 2004 01:20 PM
Edited By: NINJA12 on 23 Nov 2004 13:21
Doug said the stock 2000 pump was only capable of suppling fuel for ~200 hp.
Others have done more with the stock pump, but how lucky do you feel.
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VincentHill
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posted November 23, 2004 02:15 PM
Edited By: VincentHill on 23 Nov 2004 14:39
Ninja12, If I ever feel Lucky, you meet me somewhere and I will bend over so you will not strain myself! MM, I am hoping that the Pump is good for that amount because I "Should" be under it's limit! and that is the way I would like to go! (Too much Garbage hung off my bike)!
I just looked up the pump and see that it is for over 200 HP but it did not say how much and if the NOS Application would be OK Also? Maybe that Bypass Regulator they use on their Wet kit is also for sale with the lines to hook it up?
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RAC4IT
Needs a job
Bergie
Posts: 3009
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posted November 23, 2004 08:58 PM
Vincent when are you going to listen to me? Get rid of all that crap, drop in a single solenoid and be done with it! Spray +100 rwhp on your setup and it will take 30 minutes to install, done!! Stop wasting time and money shooting for the moon when you only need to go one mile!
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dougmeyer
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moderated
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posted November 23, 2004 09:28 PM
Change to our hi flow pump and just T off the main supply. That pump is good for 700 hp. (350 pph).
Remember, the wet side of the kit is only set at about 4 psi.
The Stealth kit will easily flow enough N2O and fuel for anothr 100 hp.
Flash- This stuff has already been invented once.
Doug 
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VincentHill
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posted November 24, 2004 09:31 AM
Edited By: VincentHill on 24 Nov 2004 10:07
Bergie, NO, anything short of the Moon is just not far enough away Remember I am not shooting for 200, but 220+
Thanks Doug, You answered both questions. I was fairly sure that The stealth will not get me where I want to go, but should get another person I know where he is shooting for.
I think I will need to get one of the higher volume and pressure pumps and put in a bypass regulator for flow back to the tank with 2 "Y" in the system. One out and one return.
Doug, is there any Amperage draw difference in the stock and the Muzzy pump? If so, what is the difference? Amperage draw is like a diet, you got to watch every last one of them or you will have way too much. (The 250 Shot NX Solenoid for NOS takes 25 to 32 Amps vs the NOS 250 Shot Solenoid that takes between 8 and 10 Amps) I may have a 20 amp battery, but it cannot supply everything, and that takes power away even with my lights disconnected.
Bergie, I just cannot enjoy doing anything exactly the way anyone else has done it, too easy. I will be using about 6 to 8 PSI in my system and adjust with the Jets to get the proper flow rates. You cannot imagine how much HP I am looking for
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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TurboBlew
Moderator
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posted November 24, 2004 12:51 PM
VInce.. Ricks Motorcycle stator rebuilds..... 800 423 1320
or call Eletrex if you need more amps to draw from.
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VincentHill
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Posts: 6520
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posted November 24, 2004 01:36 PM
Thanks TB there is a lot of knowledge to draw from here!!
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted November 24, 2004 06:08 PM
Vince-
I'm puzzled. Why do you say you can't get there from here. What's missing?
D.
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VincentHill
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posted November 24, 2004 06:31 PM
quote:
Vince-
I'm puzzled. Why do you say you can't get there from here. What's missing?
D.
A friend in DC has a 12 and wanted a clean no problem 250 HP. I said your system because it could make more.
To make 350 HP I do not see an advantage in the stealth over what I am planning. 200 to 250 NOS Solenoid and the larger Shark NX Spray Nozzles with the Muzzy Pump and a bypass Regulator ought to give me the range I need and hours of fun over the winter setting this up. I have always been terrified of the Separate fuel pump and the NX 250 solenoid draws 24 to 31 APMS which is waay too much for a bike to deal with over a long period of time.
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lonniemac
Expert Class
Posts: 225
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posted November 25, 2004 07:18 AM
Vince, dynotune makes a nitrous cut off switch that will shut it down if a lean condition or rich condition happens on the run. i have one and it works. it wont make you faster but it can save your motor. the only motors i lost on nitrous were running at top end. (difficult to tune properly)i found it on dragbike.com website. and it will let you know after the run which happened if it does. it is independant of any type of system you design it ties to the selionoids. and then to an o2 sensor you have to put in the exhaust. there are other things that can go wrong (fuel sol.) and others.
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VincentHill
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posted November 25, 2004 02:43 PM
quote:
Vince, dynotune makes a nitrous cut off switch that will shut it down if a lean condition or rich condition happens on the run. i have one and it works. it wont make you faster but it can save your motor. the only motors i lost on nitrous were running at top end. (difficult to tune properly)i found it on dragbike.com website. and it will let you know after the run which happened if it does. it is independant of any type of system you design it ties to the selionoids. and then to an o2 sensor you have to put in the exhaust. there are other things that can go wrong (fuel sol.) and others.
http://www.landracing.net/cgi-bin/pro/emAlbum.cgi?c=show_image;p=Maxton/2004/October%2030,%2004;i=44
I know what you are talking about. Look at the area on the left side of my bike in front of the clutch lever. That is an Exhaust Gas Temp sensor that I I can keep and eye on during the run. I also have a fuel Pressure cut off switch on the right side of my bike attached to the Brass elbow SO as you can see, I am serious about this!
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RAC4IT
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Bergie
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posted November 25, 2004 03:09 PM
how are you going to look at an exhaust temperature gauge on a 200mph run? You better be watching the tach and your line and not much else for a good run!
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VincentHill
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posted November 26, 2004 10:09 AM
Fair question. I have only had time in Top gear because I do not need to shift and it is in the direction of the Tack plus it records Max Temp on the run. Nothing I have time to stare at but it is part of what I do every run.
Yes, you are extremely busy mentally and there is not a lot of time either, but a quick look to the left of the tack is in the flight plan. I may move it right next to the tack for easier viewing because as I go faster, it will cut down on my focus time.
Do not forget that Po People cannot have all of the Bells and Whisltes and the engine is so rich right now, I have seen temps in the high 900's to low 1,000. As I leaned it out, I finally got it up to 1,200 which is a lot closer to where I want to be.
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RAC4IT
Needs a job
Bergie
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posted November 26, 2004 10:29 AM
Vincent the reason you're "po" is that you're spending way too much money on this project, so far for your situation anyway it's nothing that couldn't have been accomplished with a $350 budget. Last I recall you posted something about having spent more than $5,000 on this project and still counting?
So yes You are absolutely right, you don't need the bells and whistles but you're the one using them! I bet that exhaust gas meter wasn't cheap either was it. Probably more than the single solenoid, 2# bottle and nylon line needed to get in the 2 club.
I hope next year it all works out for you as much time and effort you spend on this, but it better go 220 mph, because if it doesn't I'm going to give you hell about it :-) because I've told you all along what to do!
On the other hand if your setup goes 220+ in the mile, well then I will eat my words and buy you're next Capt. Larrys dinner in Maxton!
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VincentHill
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posted November 26, 2004 03:42 PM
Thanks Bergie! I buy you Capt Larry's anyway
The "MoneY" was all necessary!
Extra NOS Bottles Used and filled with the High flow tubes I now have 2 10# bottles and 3 - 2.5 and 1 borrowed with 30 lbs of NOS. SO 4 bottles at even average of $125 apiece is $500
The Original NX Kit is $500
3 sets of spray Nozzles (1 the kit came with but were too short. The 1 NOS Set that did not spray enough and the Larger NX Set that work perfectly $500 ($250 Wasted in learning / Testing)
Pistons becasue stock will not handle much more than 60 to 75 shot for long periods of time. JE and 2 sets of CP $1,200 ($700 wasted on the JE)
Gaskets and Spacers. Cometic charged me $80 and $60 for spacers and about $80 apiece for the head Gaskets. Returned all of the spacers because they charged $50 for sending the order on time and used stock and spacers from Falicon net spent $250 Net wasted ($50)
NOS Pressure Gauges, Lines, Filters, Heat Blankets (For the Bottle on the bike and to heat the 10# to transfer NOS) Larger solenoid, Fuel cut off switch about $350 ($125 wasted on the NX Solenoid it takes too many Amps to operate)
Controllers and Retards and EGT Sensor) $500 Nothing waster there!
Cam Sprockets m Valves and Shims and Buckets (Remember the JE Pistons) [$500 ($350 Wasted) the $150 was for the cam and sprockets
Running Gear (Extra Rear Sprockets and spare Chain and new rear tire $600 Gearing from 40 to 47 rear.
Spare set of Throttle Bodies ($150) wasted (Part of the pinched fuel line attempt to solve)
MISC Parts CLutch plates steel and fiber, the clutch release shafts and pull shafts, Spark Plugs, clutch springs other gaskets and junk in general about $300
Fuel and Dyno time $500 (Only paid in the shop once and gave serious tips the other times and 10 gallons of fuel at $6 to $9 a Gallon
Hotel and eating plus highway expenses 800 mile round trip @15 to the Gallon [$350
And when you add it all up, this is what it takes to learn and move ahead. Except for another Wheel assembly with a DOT Race tire and different Pump and Fuel bypass regulator for next year which is about "$500" More, I should be able to do what I set out to do. (I also replaced a few bearings in the transmission and wheels that are included somewhere )
SO I spent in total about $6,000 from start to finish (about $2,250 for October 2003 and about $3,750 for October 2004 of which I wasted about $1,500 "$250 the 1st year and "$1,250" the second year!) Compare the $1,500 to how much it would cost to have Lee's or Adam's just build the engine? and I think I am ahead of that by a lot!!. Understand one other other thing that the "Lowest MPH to get in the "200 MPH CLub" is 210.00 MPH!
Seriously look over what I did and except for the wasted $1,500 what is "NOT" needed to make a bike with over 325 reliable HP? (I can take it because I need to know? It is not cheap to go over 200 but fairly cheap to go 180 to 190. I also did not add the $1,500 for Leathers, Boots, Gloves and Helmets!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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TurboBlew
Moderator
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posted November 26, 2004 06:09 PM
Or you could have bought Don's 2003 for $15k with the Velocity setup and run 225 and mounted a bottle for "props" and taken some of Guy Caputo's money....
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VincentHill
Needs a life
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posted November 27, 2004 05:54 AM
quote:
Or you could have bought Don's 2003 for $15k with the Velocity setup and run 225 and mounted a bottle for "props" and taken some of Guy Caputo's money....
No Turbo's allowed for Guy's Money! #2, after what I watched at Gainesville, you could not "GIVE" (Everyone here knows me well enought to know that I mean this) me anything Barry Henson has anything to do with! It was bad enough that his customers had to lose to him and Kent Stotz (because if they had beaten him out of the championship we all know that he would never have worked on their bikes again) But the fact that Pierre had bought a Turbo from him before he even got to Gainesville and after allowing Barry and Kent to pratice on the track he had rented to tell Pierre that he would not "Deliver" the turbo until "AFTER" the races! "F" Barry and Velocity!
I usually try to contain myself but bringing all of this back just pissed me off that much more. TB, I understood what you were saying and I am not mad at you
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted November 27, 2004 09:42 AM
Another alternative might have been purchasing the well tested Muzzy Stealth Kit for $1200, adding an $89 Muzzy high flow fuel pump, opened the box, spent a saturday afternoon installing same, put in the correct jets for the desired power level and gone racin'. Now, if that didn't provide sufficient speed (and I'm pretty sure it would have, having ridden just such a setup) you could have easily added upgrades from there. But hey, that's just me.
Doug
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