oof440
Expert Class
Posts: 137
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posted November 18, 2004 10:29 AM
1270 questions
I'm sure some of these questions have been answered elsewhere but i'm obviously no good at using the search feature. I am putting together a 1270 with JE 13:1 pistons, stock cams, full muzzys titanium pipe, pcIIIr, K&N's-yah I know everyone says they suck-, muzzys billet basket, heavy duty springs and ti retainers and adjustable cam sprockets. Anyway I am going to spray it and I have the muzzys stealth wet kit. I am gonna be running a .040 thousandths spacer plate in order to give JE some room to put some material on top of the piston. What I want to know is if anyone first off has a good 1270 map that I can start and break the bike in on until I can get a custom one made. I also want to know if anyone has some cam timing recommendations. And last but not least I wanted to know if anyone could give me an idea of how much ignition retard to run in relation to nitrous shot. I figured I would start with a 50 horse shot and then work up from there. JE is building the pistons to handle 150 horse but theres no way I am running that off of a starter button. Anyway I know there are alot of you guys on here that really seem to know your stuff and any help you can throw my way would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
  
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oof440
Expert Class
Posts: 137
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posted November 19, 2004 05:15 AM
you guys dont have to answer all questions if you know the answer to any thats one less thing I have to figure out on my own. Does anyone see any holes in my combination?
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MadMike
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posted November 19, 2004 05:31 AM
Check with DWB, I built his motor and he had the same kit as you with the only difference being he had Weisco pistons. I will tell him that your asking.
Mad Mike
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RAC4IT
Needs a job
Bergie
Posts: 3009
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posted November 19, 2004 05:34 AM
I dont see the need for custom nitrous pistons and a spacer plate for a 1270 kit, even if you're gonna spray it. You can easily spray +100 rwhp on the standard 1270 package.
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Marcos Peguero
Zone Head
Posts: 568
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posted November 19, 2004 07:03 AM
email me I have lots of maps, some are for 1270, you have to look if anyone suits your inmediate needs.
motoseteo@go.com
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted November 19, 2004 05:37 PM
As long as you tune it right and mind the timing, forget the spacer. I'm sure one of the N2O heads around can tell you how much to back the timing down on the spray.
Doug
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted November 20, 2004 02:08 AM
well, if he's gonna add .040 to the top of the piston; the spacer plate might be "useful", eh?
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oof440
Expert Class
Posts: 137
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posted November 20, 2004 06:28 AM
I appreciate all the help guys. JE suggested that I run the spacer plate just to be on the safe side. They said that the extra material above the ring pack will make the piston handle the extra abuse of the nos alot better. Madmike, I PMed DWB but I was wondering if you built his motor if you degreed the cams and if you did what you set them at. I dont really know where to start with the cam timing. Anyway, thanks again guys, any suggestions on who to ask about the nitrous timing retard?
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kawachan
Pro
Posts: 1031
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posted November 20, 2004 10:45 AM
I think I did 100/105. But I haven't used any NOS on it yet....
I lost my custom map or I's send it to ya. BMC's are better. I am getting rid of my K&N's...
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
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posted November 20, 2004 06:31 PM
Well, uh yeah, but I was suggesting that maybe that wasn't necessary......
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Johnnycheese
Pro
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posted November 20, 2004 09:11 PM
quote:
Well, uh yeah, but I was suggesting that maybe that wasn't necessary......
so I realy don't need on for this. Cool becusa this has some compression and I would sure hate to lose any
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
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posted November 21, 2004 05:14 PM
Well, lower compression would be safer, but what fun is safe?
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MadMike
Moderator
FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
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posted November 21, 2004 08:14 PM
I am not 100% it was a year ago, but I believe we went 105I and 102E.
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oof440
Expert Class
Posts: 137
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posted November 23, 2004 05:51 AM
with the spacer plate I'm still going up about a half a point in compression. I priced the muzzys kit but even with JE custom building the pistons with gaskets and the spacer plate I'm going to have almost exactly the same money in it going this route and it is better for my peice of mind. The way I figure it I havent played with nitrous alot yet so I figure that the extra meat on top of the piston cant be anything but good. Thanks again for all the help. Johnny cheese, I just happened to stumble across a post that said that you had a 1270 with a 150 horse shot on a progressive controller. How much were you retarding your timing with that combination. Thanks again.
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RAC4IT
Needs a job
Bergie
Posts: 3009
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posted November 23, 2004 09:03 PM
Well sounds like you got it all figured out then, what are you asking advice for? Funny how so many people ask advice then do their own thing anyway regardless of the advice of people who have "been there, done that". The more complicated you make things, the more likely the failure. More often than not the simple idea is the best idea!! And it costs less and saves time too! Why do people insist on doing stuff the hard way!! WORK SMARTER NOT HARDER!
Just remember there is no "piece of mind" with nitrous!
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MadMike
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posted November 23, 2004 09:18 PM
Hey I have at least 1 piece of mind. LOL...
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
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posted November 23, 2004 09:24 PM
I call it "the George factor". It works like this; A guy comes up to the professional whatever ( engine builder, machinist, whatever...) He says, "How do you think I should do X, I really don't know what to do. Please help me." Mr. Expert says, "OK here's the deal, do B and C but don't bother doing A."
Guy says, "Really? My neighbor, George says.............." 
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MadMike
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posted November 23, 2004 09:29 PM
LMAO... yep, there is a girl at the track same thing. "hey mike what do you think I can do to launch better" and she hears me say "bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla" "Ok I think I'll do this....
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oof440
Expert Class
Posts: 137
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posted November 24, 2004 04:38 AM
Sorry guys, dont mean to offend anyone. I am not asking advice on the piston and spacer plate deal, the pistons are already being made so it is a done deal. What I AM asking advice on is cam timing, a baseline pc3r map, and amount of ignition retard to run. I just told you guys what I have so far so that it would give you a better idea of what I was dealing with. When it comes right down to it most of the parts are already bought and in my garage. The pistons have been on order for a month now, and pretty much all I have to do is send the jug to be machined and start putting it together. I know you guys have alot more experience with this bike then I do and thats why I am asking you for baseline stuff. The way I figure it JE has been playing with pistons alot longer than me and so that makes them more likely to know what works and what doesnt. I didnt realize I was gonna get flamed for trying to get a little advice.
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MadMike
Moderator
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posted November 24, 2004 05:36 AM
did you try to get ahold of DWB? PM him. I am sure he will remember the cam set up... nobody is flaming you man we just razzing ya a little. smile, life is to short.
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted November 24, 2004 05:39 AM
oof,
JE makes GREAT pistons, but just to be sure, you might want to assure that the quench ring is in the hole about .010" or a bit more at TDC, and clay the valve/piston clearance.
everything is probably fine, but it's worth checking.
AND
I would never disagree with MM or DM, but I do ask as many knowledgeable folks as possible before i decide on a course of action. Too many opinions; many of which apply to specific situations which aren't quite what you are doing. It seems you have to know 90% of the answer before you can even ask an intelligent question.
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
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posted November 24, 2004 06:11 PM
No flames meant. We're all learning here........
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ninja12
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posted November 24, 2004 06:39 PM
LOL, reminds me of a guy that rides with us. After the dealer told him that the 2000 upper would not fit his 1998 R1. He decided that the pic on eBay looked like it would fit so he bought it anyway.
Learning opportunities are funny as hell when you are not the one getting the lesson.
2 things,,
1. Don't piss into the wind.
2. Don't ignore DM in public
both can be very embarrassing
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oof440
Expert Class
Posts: 137
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posted November 25, 2004 04:57 AM
Yah, MM I did pm him but he has not gotten back to me yet. Thanks for the advice entropy, I'll definately plan on doing that. I really do appreciate all the advice guys, I guess its hard to tell who's screwing around and who's not when your not looking em in the eye's.
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted November 25, 2004 08:09 AM
YEP!
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