matt sterbator
Pro
Hiding in the bushes
Posts: 1367
|
posted November 16, 2004 09:31 PM
Random misfire after reinstalling motor.
'00 12R, stock motor, pipe, PC3, K&Ns. Broke 3rd gear. Handlful of gear bits in the oil pan, rest of gear stuck between output shaft and case. Case slightly damaged, but integrity not compromised.
Cases split, new R&D transmission installed (thanks Chavcat), new breather plate and oil pipe. Cases put back together. Everything seemed to go back together fine (balanced set correctly). Used Yamabond to seal the cases, reinstalled motor.
Went to fire it up, battery died. Jumped it off with another battery. Bike wouldn't start unless extra throttle was applied, and would die if you let go of the throttle. It would stay running at about 2k rpm, but has a noticable misfire. Rechecked all plugs, and connections. Plugs seemed fouled, very wet. Motor was kept upside down for the good part of a month, possible oil leaked into combustion chamber. Replaced plugs with known good plugs out of my own '00 12R. Replaced coil sticks as well. Problem persisted. PC3R disconnected, no change.
Basically, everything that's blaringly obvious was checked or replaced with a known good part from the other 12R. TPS tested within range, IATS tested within range, Cam sensor replaced, ECU replaced, fuel lines checked, fuel pump checked. Water temp sensor good. Injectors are firing, all header tubes heat up about the same. All plugs and coils fire. Crank trigger sensor replaced.
Changed the battery out with the one from my bike. It cranks up and we somehow get it to idle without handling the throttle. Still missing, but atleast it idles. While it's running, it backfires slightly through the intake. There's fuel, and there's spark. Unsure as to whether the spark is firing when it should. Seems like a timing issue (going by my own experience with auto engines).
No wires or tubes appear to be pinched or crimped. ECU isn't showing any codes, no FI light is showing. Crank never removed, cam chain or tensioner never touched. Rotated crank by hand in order to set the balancer. Don't see how the cam chain could have jumped a tooth, but we haven't removed the valve cover yet. Don't think any junk got up into the cylinder head, but I'll find out tomorrow.
Bike seems to be fine above 4k-5k rpm. Under that, seems like a random misfire.
Me and Turboblew spent the good part of tonight trying to diagnose the problem. Steve even called Roger for ideas. Steve may add some thoughts to this when he reads it. It's late, and I may be forgetting something we checked.
Any help is greatly appreciated. 
   
|
lonniemac
Expert Class
Posts: 225
|
posted November 17, 2004 07:12 AM
tps sounds like you know the tps should be checked in and out. the magnetic pickup on the crank is another one if you split the cases then you disturbed it.
|
dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
|
posted November 17, 2004 08:10 AM
Did you guys make sure that the black plug is on the tps and the grey one is on the MAP sensor?
Doug
|
osti33
Needs a job
Posts: 2973
|
posted November 17, 2004 08:13 AM
quote:
Did you guys make sure that the black plug is on the tps and the grey one is on the MAP sensor?
Doug
My thoughts exactly! They are easy to get switched. Ask me how I know...
|
TurboBlew
Moderator
BUSY DOING THE SCHIAVO
Posts: 4590
|
posted November 17, 2004 09:28 AM
Yeap... all the obvious and not so obvious trouble shooting routes have been explored (we think)
Plenty of fuel
Plenty of spark
Tensioner was never loosened on the cams, crank trigger was reinstalled correctly, etc.
We checked the PC too. It does the same thing with or without the PC.
Now it will start with the throttle opened and after 2000rpms it cleans up... but still has that "flooded" sound and its running rich at ALL RPMS.
Its hitting on all 4 cylinders because each header has the same temp (felt by hand)
Plugs, caps, everything has been swapped with known good parts.
Even Norms "ace in the hole".....your ECU took a dump theory aint working here.
Bike was running fine before disassembly. Everything was set or reassembled as the manual states (first printing, circa early 2000)
Any other ideas are welcomed.
The TPS has NOT been swapped yet, so that may be the root of the problem. Cam cover will come off today to investigate further.
____________
Official Charter Member of the RIDERS OF KAWASAKI MEMBERSHIP REVOCATION CLUB
Also a BadAss Internet Forum Moderator 4 Hire!! Come at me brah!
|
psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
|
posted November 17, 2004 09:42 AM
Hmmmmmmm
3rd. Gear blew?!?!
I had the same thing happen! WARNING EVERYBODY!
Did you check the Vacume line to the Regulator? This allows the fuel pressure to drop at idle.
____________
You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
|
psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
|
posted November 17, 2004 09:52 AM
I'm asking this one to be able to shrink the Devils playing field......
Your fuel is FRESH...Right?
____________
You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
|
matt sterbator
Pro
Hiding in the bushes
Posts: 1367
|
posted November 17, 2004 10:16 AM
Vacuum line to regulator, just checked that, connected, hose doesn't appear to be damaged.
Tank drained last night and replaced with 2.5 gallons of new gas.
Cam cover coming off next.
|
NINJA12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
|
posted November 17, 2004 12:54 PM
vacum line to map sensor
|
matt sterbator
Pro
Hiding in the bushes
Posts: 1367
|
posted November 17, 2004 01:12 PM
quote:
vacum line to map sensor
Check, and check
|
matt sterbator
Pro
Hiding in the bushes
Posts: 1367
|
posted November 17, 2004 01:13 PM
quote:
Basically, everything that's blaringly obvious was checked or replaced with a known good part from the other 12R.
Unless there's something I'm just too stupid to notice.
Not thinking zebras here 
|
psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
|
posted November 17, 2004 02:04 PM
Just for "Funzees"
Disconnect your main power harness at Battery Junction (Large White Plug)
Wait a moment and reconnect...This will force your FI system to do a complete reset.
It can't hurt................
____________
You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
|
psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
|
posted November 17, 2004 02:05 PM
No FI light means either something mechanical of Fuel System.
____________
You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
|
matt sterbator
Pro
Hiding in the bushes
Posts: 1367
|
posted November 17, 2004 02:23 PM
White plug has been disconnected and reconnected. Even changed the battery.
As of now, it appears that the cam chain did NOT jump a tooth. Pin 1 the mark, other mark between pins 31 and 32. No visible damage to the cam lobes.
Only thing I can think of now is a compression test.
|
psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
|
posted November 17, 2004 02:37 PM
Yep!
Engine "Upside-down" for a month? After you found trans debris in pan?
Cylinder Damage possible...........................
____________
You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
|
TurboBlew
Moderator
BUSY DOING THE SCHIAVO
Posts: 4590
|
posted November 17, 2004 03:05 PM
debris was removed before motor was turned upside down.
____________
Official Charter Member of the RIDERS OF KAWASAKI MEMBERSHIP REVOCATION CLUB
Also a BadAss Internet Forum Moderator 4 Hire!! Come at me brah!
|
matt sterbator
Pro
Hiding in the bushes
Posts: 1367
|
posted November 17, 2004 04:05 PM
I'd joke, but it would take away from the post. lol
Anyone know where I can get a compression tester fitting to work on this bike, mine are too big ?
|
psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
|
posted November 17, 2004 04:12 PM
That Debris gets EVERYWHERE under those conditions!
How does your Oil Pump Rotor Look?
No Joke
____________
You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
|
matt sterbator
Pro
Hiding in the bushes
Posts: 1367
|
posted November 17, 2004 05:32 PM
Oil pump rotor, looks ok, it's got some scratches, no more than the original pil pump rotor set did when the clutch basket let go last year.
I know the oil pump rotor is important to check so I put the old oil pump rotor back in while I'm flushing the system out. Once I've done that to my satisfaction, I'll install the new oil pump rotor.
um... oil pump rotor, just had to say it one more time, lol.
|
matt sterbator
Pro
Hiding in the bushes
Posts: 1367
|
posted November 17, 2004 05:34 PM
Oh yeah, pick up screen had NO debris in it.
|
your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
|
posted November 17, 2004 05:41 PM
Got one at the house B....got it in the harbor freight compression test kit gimmick deal. Grey case etc...should be avail at the store there on beach.
If not I can get it to you sat when I get back from denmark.
____________
Do not taunt happy fun ball!
|
matt sterbator
Pro
Hiding in the bushes
Posts: 1367
|
posted November 17, 2004 06:08 PM
Hmmm, I have that exact same compression tester kit, and don't have the fitting that fits the bike. Maybe I should double check THAT too, lol.
|
TurboBlew
Moderator
BUSY DOING THE SCHIAVO
Posts: 4590
|
posted November 18, 2004 07:54 AM
I thought you were going with the 3 rotor setup? 
If 1 is good...3 is betta. Plenty of rotary parts in the gayrog....
quote:
Oil pump rotor, looks ok, it's got some scratches, no more than the original pil pump rotor set did when the clutch basket let go last year.
I know the oil pump rotor is important to check so I put the old oil pump rotor back in while I'm flushing the system out. Once I've done that to my satisfaction, I'll install the new oil pump rotor.
um... oil pump rotor, just had to say it one more time, lol.
____________
Official Charter Member of the RIDERS OF KAWASAKI MEMBERSHIP REVOCATION CLUB
Also a BadAss Internet Forum Moderator 4 Hire!! Come at me brah!
|
psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
|
posted November 18, 2004 10:43 AM
I have a curious question for you two........
Under what operating conditions was the engine when 3rd. gear let go?
____________
You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
|
TurboBlew
Moderator
BUSY DOING THE SCHIAVO
Posts: 4590
|
posted November 18, 2004 11:23 AM
3-4000 rpm, walking speeds.
____________
Official Charter Member of the RIDERS OF KAWASAKI MEMBERSHIP REVOCATION CLUB
Also a BadAss Internet Forum Moderator 4 Hire!! Come at me brah!
|
|
|
HOME
NEW TOPIC