deathpulse
Pro
Posts: 1688
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posted October 13, 2004 05:56 PM
LOL - that is a GREAT expansion of my point Slug  . These arguements that "there is a bigger divide between the rich and poor in the US bla bla bla" are like many other liberal arguements. They are (at their core) designed to illicit an emotional response as opposed to illicit an intellectual evaluation of the overall picture. When Joe average citizen hears "bigger divide between rich and poor" in whatever form, they immediatly have an almost "jellous" reaction and get all steamed up thinking "MAN THAT REALLY SUCKS!", without realizing that "HEY - who cares? I'm living MUCH better then people were living 10, 20, 30, 40,50 etc years ago".
Libs love to pull the emotional cards with the hopes that most people don't think beyond the soundbites.
bTW - GWB is kicking ass in the debates tonight!! GO BUSH!!
  
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slug
Pro
Out in search of my mind...
Posts: 1433
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posted October 14, 2004 05:36 AM
 Edited By: slug on 14 Oct 2004 06:38
the "atrocious" economy posts record employment numbers..but we are losing jobs right?
| Quarterly | |
| averages | Monthly data |
|_________________|__________________________| Aug.-
Category | 2004 | 2004 | Sept.
|_________________|__________________________|change
| II | III | July | Aug. | Sept. |
_________________________|________|________|________|________|________|_______
HOUSEHOLD DATA | Labor force status
|____________________________________________________
Civilian labor force.....| 146,998| 147,681| 147,856| 147,704| 147,483| -221
Employment.............| 138,793| 139,607| 139,660| 139,681| 139,480| -201
Unemployment...........| 8,205| 8,074| 8,196| 8,022| 8,003| -19
Not in labor force.......| 75,975| 75,999| 75,565| 75,973| 76,458| 485
|________|________|________|________|________|_______
| Unemployment rates
|____________________________________________________
All workers..............| 5.6| 5.5| 5.5| 5.4| 5.4| 0.0
Adult men..............| 5.1| 5.0| 4.9| 5.0| 5.0| .0
Adult women............| 4.9| 4.8| 4.9| 4.7| 4.7| .0
Teenagers..............| 17.0| 17.1| 17.6| 17.0| 16.6| -.4
White..................| 5.0| 4.7| 4.8| 4.7| 4.7| .0
Black or African | | | | | |
American.............| 9.9| 10.5| 10.9| 10.4| 10.3| -.1
Hispanic or Latino | | | | | |
ethnicity............| 7.0| 6.9| 6.8| 6.9| 7.1| .2
|________|________|________|________|________
data charts from department of labor
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
|_______
   
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted October 14, 2004 09:08 AM
The Key is the "not in the Labor Force" includes the people that have given up on looking for a job. In Northern Ohio, unemployment is 10% of the people still looking and 8 to 10% for the people that have given up.
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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Otis
Needs a job
Captain Kickstand
Posts: 3028
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posted October 14, 2004 09:36 AM
Edited By: Otis on 14 Oct 2004 10:37
Vincent, please explain to me why on God's green earth you would STOP looking for a job? What are they expecting, a sack of cash to fall out of the sky. If, God forbid my company went under and I was out of work and didn't try FOREVER to find a new job, than I am just a lazy piece of crap. How uterly pathetic those people must be to stop looking for a way to sustain their family.
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Ninjaman12R
Needs a job
as a Deal's Gap tour guide.
Posts: 4767
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posted October 14, 2004 10:15 AM
Vincent is gonna kick your ass Otis.
____________
What we're dealin' with here is a complete lack of respect for the law.
Sheriff Buford T. Justice of TEXAS
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted October 14, 2004 11:56 AM
Otis, A serious answer is "Money" and loss of Hope. It takes money to get on a bus or drive a car around to go on interviews. WHen you have tried for over a year or two and get turned down for a year or two, "Humans" can and do just give up. A lot of the ones I saw interviewed were Highly educated and now living on the streets or Homeless Shelters. These are people that no one will hire because they are dressed poorly and sometimes do not smell good. I know it is hard to believe, because most of the people that were interviewed could not believe their condition either. The Poor people camped out in Lafyette park (Across from the White House ) and they called it "ReaganVille". The food that came from the USDA was called "Reagan Cheese" Reagan Butter ect. They were there for quite a while.
SO the answer is yes, I can imagine being so poor and down that I would give up on living. This is the part of Society that no one wants to talk about.
They also had to give up their families and send the childern to other family members and they just fend for themselves.
Not to say I told you so, but Otis, there are more of these people now than there were just a few years ago. My church has people that make sandwiches, and we Donate Cloths and canned food also. Otis, you just do not know "Poor" Homeless, Jobless and Hopeless! I am glad you do not understand this (like most people of your Political views)
____________
Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted October 14, 2004 01:41 PM
I didn't say ALL. I NEVER speak in absolutes. 
If you ask "How do you crash a zx12 that isnt moving?" And I reply "Park it facing down a hill in neutral." Am I saying every zx12 owner is an idiot?
You asked how do you steal from the poor who have nothing. I replied You steal their labor. Where did I 'vilify' ALL, rich people, each and every one?
You go off on these rants and set me up as this super ideoligical liberal strawman that is a composite of every stupid liberal you have ever met or heard of then knock me down. But thats ok....I've been known to do the same thing. Besides sounds like you needed to get it out of your system. Why else would you keep coming back for more?
I have no doubt that you guys are intelligent, honest, hardworking, taxpaying, upstanding citizens who just want whats best for your kids and your community. I'm sure we agree on many things. But some we obviously don't.
Take for example this Horatio Alger idea that all you have to do to pull you self out of poverty is try hard and you will succeed. That there is a better paying job out there for anyone who wants one if they are willing to try hard enough and make the right choices.
Its a great sounding little theory and it has the added advantage of relieving the rest of us from any responsibility for their plight. I believe that yes, there will always be inequalities. The question is if the gap between rich and poor is artificially large and if so why. Are these inequalities being manipulated for the benefit of one group over another?
I'm sure you have heard of the Federal Reserve. When the economy is bad they will cut interest rates. This stimulates lending, home construction etc and creates jobs. Of course when the economy is doing 'too good' they will raise rates to slow down the economy. They do this with the full knowledge that every time they raise the rate a 100,000 or more people will lose their jobs. In fact they are counting on it. When there are more workers than jobs then wages go down. Lower wages me less inflation. Simple supply and demand. Also those with jobs are less likely to quit the job they have and look for one with better wages or working conditions when jobs are scarce.
The unemployment rate in this country is artifically kept around 4% by the Federal Reserve. These people are people who want to work but can't find jobs. The Fed does this to curve inflation. Why? Because its bad for people who live off their investments and don't work for a living. If I have a 100 million invested off which I earn 5% and inflation is 3% then I make 2 mil a year. However if inflation is 7% than I lose 2mil a year.
If I'm a working slob however inflation isnt all that bad, yeah bread and gas cost more but I get paid more. In fact high wages and job growth cause inflation so wages tend to lead it. And also my single biggest personal investment, my house, goes up in value much faster. Now regardless whether you think keeping inflation below 3% is a good idea or a bad idea for the working man. You have to admit that the 4% unemployed are taking one for the team, for the 'good of the economy'. I think we owe them a little something for that don't you?
As for the rich stealing from the poor. Is stealing too harsh a word? Maybe, but in this country the very rich have way too much influence with congress, both Dem and Rep, and they allow the government to manipulate the economy for their benefit.
Now if you think that half a billion dollars is being spent on this campaign because the rich want whats best for the common man, If you believe that the fortune 400 are 10 times richer today than 20 years ago because they got lucky, because of some economic law off nature, NOT because of governmental tax and economic policy, both democrat and republican, then Yes you are an ignorant fool.
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deathpulse
Pro
Posts: 1688
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posted October 14, 2004 04:01 PM
Did anyone read my post about the "Rich" vs. the "poor" arguement? Who cares HOW the rich got rich? Who cares WHAT the rich did to get there? IT DOESNT MATTER. The fact is that people are living better quality of life now in the lower, middle and upper class than they ever had. WHO CARES THAT YOU DONT MAKE AS MUCH AS BILL GATES? Does it REALLY matter? You guys sound like a bunch of jelous haters .
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deathpulse
Pro
Posts: 1688
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posted October 14, 2004 05:54 PM
Edited By: deathpulse on 14 Oct 2004 18:54
quote:
.
Take for example this Horatio Alger idea that all you have to do to pull you self out of poverty is try hard and you will succeed. That there is a better paying job out there for anyone who wants one if they are willing to try hard enough and make the right choices.
^ that is an interesting example Ridge. Horatio Alger (for those not familiar) was one of America's first "pulp" novelists. His work was HUGE at the time, as it centered around some of the ideals that make America great... but it was total fiction and "pulp" writing. Kinda like Steven King today - but with a more centered topic (DONT ANYONE THINK I'M BASHING KIND - I LOVE HIS WORKS ). Now... I can tell you this.
(in caps for more effect)
IF YOU TRY HARD YOU MAY OR MAY NOT SUCCEED -BUT- IF YOU NEVER TRY AT ALL, YOU WILL ALMOST CERTAINLY FAIL
Many of today's richest individuals started with nothing and worked hard, took MASSIVE risks, had good ideas and got lucky. Our economy and our culture are conducive to this type of success...
(more caps)
INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH - ONE OF THE RICHEST MEN IN AMERICA DIDN'T GET RICH BY WORKING HARD, TAKING MASSIVE RISKS OR HAVING GOOD IDEAS. HE MARRIED RICH WOMEN - TWICE. THAT MAN IS.....
JOHN
KERRY.
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slug
Pro
Out in search of my mind...
Posts: 1433
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posted October 14, 2004 06:06 PM
you are right, you never said all, but your WORDS and your STATEMENTS say it plainly...
you never said every, but by EXCLUDING the term 'many', or 'some' you make the implication that all is the group. and group you ARE
can't find jobs...LOOK. i have read classifieds every time this topic comes up,the topic of "trhere are no jobs out there" and EVERY time the newspaper has pages of jobs, begging to be plucked.
from all levels of expertise, experience, and education.....
vincent: i understand that people lose hope and just quit. but then what makes it OUR job to provide for them? what makes it OUR job to make it PROFITABLE to quit? why is it the GOVERNMENT'S fault when this happens?
WHY is it the 'rich' people's fault?
ridge: the fact is this: unless someone is breaking hte law, then i don';t CARE how they got rich, or stay rich, or get richer, or lose their shirts. because it is THEIR life, and FRANKLY none of my OR YOUR business how much money they make or have.
but too many people are OBSESSED with how muchy money other people have, and OBSESSED with how they spend it, and OBSESSED with makeing it all equal, and re-distributing the wealth to everyone, because those richpeople don't 'need' it
that is where the fundamentla difference between us is. i don't CARE how rich Kerry is, or his wife, or his friends. i don't CARE how rich gates, or bush, or kennedy, or any of them are. because it makes NO DIFFERENCE to my life.
but, apparently, based on your frequent posting on the subject of rich people, it DOES matter to you.
my life is run by me and my choices. and my choices will either allow me to continue to be productive, or will force me to make changes in my lifestyle if i don't keep up with the world.
i have worked fast food at minimum wage. i have worked for less than minimum wage. i have worked well below the "poverty" level for half of my working life. live and learn. gain job experience, gain skills, move up and on.
i have worked in a factory, manufacturing. it seemed like a good choice at the time, and in hindsight the experience gained assisted in landing my current job.
BUT it didn't take a rocket scientist to see that the production methods and layout of hte factory were detrimental to profitable and efficient operation. it didn't take a PHD in business administration to see that the factory was doomed by its own labor force. when a large number of people work slowly through the week and PURPOSEFULLY fail to meet line rates, just to get overtime....there's a problem...
it took a year and a half to find a new job *THAT WAS MY TARGET TO FIND*
i looked while i was STILL EMPLOYED. i had a resume, kept it current, posted it with headhunters, and did legwork as well. i interviewed many times, and only one set of interviews worked out.
it's called life. it's called PLANNING, it's called CHOICES.
i could have chosen to stay put, where my job was secure enough for a while. and i could have chosen to just wait out the end. and THEN gone looking. and then i'd be on that unemployment payout, trying to find a job.
NEVER wait for the job to go away before you look for a new one.
there are some cases where it is not possible to know ahead of time, and that's life. that's why you have a savings plan, before going in to debt for nice new car, have money set aside to pay a year's bills. quit smoking, and save that money in an account, buy a 6 month CD. reinvest. start small. or just have a checking balance in an interest bearing account.
but that is hard advice to keep, i haven't gotten enough saved yet to last a year without a job. it's a risk i take, considering the job i have is low risk for loss. but it IS a risk....
i could go 3 months jobless, zero income.
eliminate all my extraneous bills, like internet, cell phone extras, full coverage on truck, ride bike to save fuel costs, dump cable tv, and i am out to 5 months (rent is still high enough to cause trouble)
this year i hope to get it out to the full year bare minimums. and by end of next year, a full year, no job, full expenses.
but it takes time and planning and decision making.
but that is all MY decision making. MY planning. MY choices.
NOTHING the rich people have, or do, or make, has ANY bearing whatsoever on MY life...except emotionally...and since i could care less how rich they are, it matters nothing to me.
I have plenty of things in life to be bitter and cynical about. but how much money someone else makes? who cares? if it is not illegal, who CARES.
i do wonder though, what would happen IF the unemployment rate was 0?
if everyone had a job that wanted one?
i'm sure this is theoretical in nature and will never happen, but what would happen if every person that wanted work was working, and a company needed to hire more people.........
controlling inflation is good for everyone....not just the 'rich'
i personally prefer my investments to MAKE money, and not lose. especially my retirement investments... if i have savings account (which many many people do) and it makes standard savings account interest rates, then inflation over 3% means EVERYONE is losing money...not just the 'rich'
the "rich person who doesn't work for a living and lives off investments" is part of your unemployment rate....and perhaps part of the 'no longer looking' crowd. they also are counted as poverty level if their "income" is too small.
and my inflationary pay raises were about half the actual inflation rate. so i got paid LESS every year.... (we typically got a 2% raise every year.....)
your comments on the working slob, he gets SCREWED by high inflation...much worse than the 'rich' because the changes inflation drives are a larger percentage of his net worth....
the 4% unemployed IF they are teh same 4% every time, yeh they are getting it in the shorts...IF they have marketable job skills they ought to have no trouble finding a job. otherwise collect the unemployment education benefits (nice perk) and BECOME more marketable.
but the government owes no one ANYTHING other than the opportunity to practice their own free choices in life, without interference FROM the government. (except in cases that violate the laws that the republic is based on or has instituted)
the government owes NO ONE a dime, NO ONE a job, NO ONE a ride.
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deathpulse
Pro
Posts: 1688
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posted October 14, 2004 06:11 PM
GO SLUG GO!! .
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted October 14, 2004 07:16 PM
Slug, I am from Toledo Ohio "The Glass Capitol" They do not make Glass there now. Toledo Scale is no longer there. Champion Spark Plug is no longer there. Spicer and Timken Bearing is no longer there. When you have a city of 300,000 and you remove 100,000 Jobs, it makes it a "little" Hard to find one.
The Bible says that we are are Brother's Keeper. There is no law that states that anyone has to care or be responsible for anyone. It is the "Compassion" that some Humans have that cause us to care and try to help the less fortunate. Yes, the paper is full of "Listed" Jobs but have you ever called one or gone on a interview"! To me, it looks like the HR keeps themselves busy by keeping ads in the paper and interviewing people. I asked some HR people how long they keep a job listed and how many people apply and I have gotten answers for time as long as 6 months and as many as 400 for a file Clerk! SO Stay as you are and when you meet your creator, explain how many lives you saved by keeping poor people from having abortions and maybe he /she will over look your selfishness!
____________
Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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deathpulse
Pro
Posts: 1688
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posted October 14, 2004 08:40 PM
Vincent, I'm not sure about Slug (although I bet he's similar to me) but when I meet my maker, I will go knowing that I have assisted my fellow man well. I came from VERY modest upbringing and I was able to grow into the man that I am now through the support of my loved ones, my hard work, some luck and determination. I'm not rich - nor do I CARE to be rich - I am what I am and I'm happy. That is all that matters. BTW - the government did not "remove jobs" from Toledo - shifting economics did. Now you may argue that trade policy bla bla bla contributed to the job removal - but the fact of the matter is that economies change, supply and demand changes and this is a fact of life. I come from the Hartford CT area originally. When I was going through college (community college at first) Hartford was getting the CRAP kicked out of its economy, as it was the late 80's and Hartford is the insurance capital of the world (dubious distinction - eh?). Well, with all the lawsuits and so forth of the time, insurance was getting creamed - and guess what? Hartford's economy (built on insurance and defense - defense was also getting hammered) was in the crapper. Know what I did? I kept my 2 jobs (dominoes pizza and farm hand), got my associates degree - got into another school and made sure that I had a school that enabled me to get a co-op job - in NJ, where the economy was better. From here the rest is history. AND THAT IS WHY THIS COUNTRY IS GREAT. Please don't ever suggest that there are no options in the country. Please don't make excuses for lazyiness. I realize that there are indeed hard luck cases that are not the fault of any one person, but this is a problem that exists in ANY type of government or economy. Kerry will not fix this - his economic policy of taxing the "upper middle class" (not truely the rich - show me a person making 200K a year and then tell me he's "RICH" and I'll laugh my ass off) will only slow down economic expansion and stifle spending. the REALLY rich (like kerry) have exploitable loopholes that allow them to pay rediculously low effective tax rates - do you REALLY think Kerry is going to shore up all of the holes that he exploits? YA. and I've got a bridge to sell ya in manhatten....
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slug
Pro
Out in search of my mind...
Posts: 1433
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posted October 14, 2004 09:00 PM
i love how it almost always becomes a personal attack.
let me see...
i'm foolish (but claim you weren't calling me foolish, but the words were spoken)
now it is selfish and the like. GREAT job
my only point in this whole mess is that TO BLAME THE RICH PEOPLE IS IGNORANT
never did i say that people shouldn't help others out, but you assume that i am a selfish bastard. fine, personal attacks, as usual, make the point best.
i just point out the fallacy of the statements made, the comments that rich are rich because they stole it from the poor. and that the rich keep the poor poor by their evil designs. (sorry, not evil, underhanded? bad? mean?)
the "Compassion" does not mean FORCED compassion. with no say in HOW that compassion gets doled out. NOWHERE does the bible EVER say to give to some unknown entity and let them figure out how to best use what you have been given stewardship over. YOU are to make the choices, and YOU are to provide good judgement when you release what you have. *I* don't consider the government to be a good steward of anything money-related...
"keeping poor people from having abortions" what the f***k is that supposed to mean? what the HELL does that have to do with economics?
if they don't want babies, DON'T screw!! how the hell hard is THAT? come ON man get that emotional rhetoric out of the way. every BIT of that is personal choice....contrary to popular beleif you will NOT explode if you don't have sex every day.
i have a problem with abortion because it is KILLING a human life. though some argue that it really ISN'T human life, but then you get to the sticky thing of WHEN does it become human life, and WHEN is it just another collection of cells that can be purged? and who makes that call? and what's the basis? and if it is 400 cells, why not 399? why not just let them have a few weeks with the baby to decide to drown it?
buti have a feeling you just tossed that little gem in there to try to divert the conversation.
you have NOTHING coherent on this topic to add. so pull the old topic switcheroo.
not sure where or what you are absingyour toledo numbers on
except for the 2001/2002 timeframe, toledo employment numbers have risen steadily since 1993, per Ohio labor stats
the unemployment rate has stayed pretty much the same, again except for the 2001/2002 time period (which of course is all bush's fault right?)
in 1999 4.8% 2000 4.4% 2001 4.5% 2002 6.3% 2003 7.2%
between 2001 and 2002 about 10000 people stopped working. of those, 4000 were no longer part of the work force (retirement, moved etc) so 6000 net jobs "lost" for the area at the bottom of the dot com/9/11 recession
manufacturing took the biggest hit in that time period, because people weren't buying stuff.... no need to have full manufacturing staff if the products don't sell...
trade/transportation/utilities actually grew market share, showing a viable location to look for future and long term.
none of these numbers are adjusted for seasonal affects, they are raw data.
but toledo is hardly the bane to jobfinders that you make it out to be....
there is still plenty to do to get back to pre 9/11 and pre dotcom levels, but it's getting there. unless you listen to CBS...
as far as companies moving from toledo, WHY did they move base of operations out of there?
the glass comment is false, there are still plenty of glass makers in toledo
toledo scale is now Mettler Toledo. based out of columbus, OH. why? we can speculate, but i'm sure you know the real reason why
champion bought by federal mogul.
quote:
Ohio
Toledo
Federal-Mogul Corporation
Aftermarket
900 Upton Avenue
Toledo, Ohio 43607
Phone: 419 535 2567
Fax: 419 535 2806
Director of Sales & Technology : Rich Keller
Number of Employees: 55
History:
* Established in 1907 in Boston, Massachusetts
* Moved to Toledo, Ohio, in 1910
Primary Function:
* Technical center providing engineering support for all locations
Key Products:
* Engineering support and prototyping
Customers:
* DaimlerChrysler
* General Motors
* Caterpillar
* Cummins
* Briggs & Stratton
Awards/Certifications:
* ISO 9000
* QS-9000
spicer:
quote:
Spicer Driveshaft, part of the Dana Corporation, is North America's largest independent manufacturer of automotive driveshafts and related components, supplying customers in the United States and around the world. In terms of market share, it is the leader in the three largest-volume product categories: cars and other light vehicles, large commercial trucks and other heavy vehicles, and off-highway vehicles for construction, mining, and other uses.
Headquartered in Toledo, Ohio, Spicer Driveshaft has 17 plants and offices in the United States. More than two-thirds of its 3,300 employees work in its five manufacturing and sub-assembly plants located in Ohio, Indiana, Pennsylvania, and Virginia. Facilities also are located in Illinois, Kansas, Kentucky, Michigan, North Carolina, Tennessee, and Washington. In addition, Spicer Driveshaft products are manufactured and distributed around the world by a network of strategically located Dana affiliates and subsidiaries.
timken, acquired bock bearing of toledo in 1926, but no other mention in their historical data of when they closed the toledo shop.
there IS a Bock engineered services still there in toledo. The acquisition of Bock bearing added 3 new product lines to timken, not sure when they clsoed that plant off. or why.
but for every job plant that closes, something else pops up. because even with plant closings, the employment has gone up, again except for the recession after 9/11
research is the key, the "100000" jobs lost from 4 companies leaving is inaccurate and wasted effort. RESEARCH something first will ya?
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted October 15, 2004 05:58 AM
You really do your Home work and this is a direct response. I stated this:
"he /she will over look your selfishness! "
You are the one that made this statement:
"vincent: i understand that people lose hope and just quit. but then what makes it OUR job to provide for them?"
"You are your Brother's Keeper"! That is what makes you responsible!
Champion Spark Plug, Yes Bought by Federal Mogul, has an "Address" in Toledo but the "ENTIRE" Operation is not in Nevada! A few moved but everyone else lost their Jobs
Toledo Scale may have changed their Name and moved to Columbus, The still are not in "Toledo" and everyone lost their Jobs
Spicer does "No" Manufacturing in Toledo! The Next time I am there I will take a picture of the rusted out building where a lot of my friends "Used to work"! Dana has "Offices" there but no Manufacturing!
Toledo has close to 20% "REAL" unemployment! 20% of 300,000 is 60,000 Jobs. The Metropolitan area has over 500,000 people. 20% of 200,000 is 40,000. 40 + 60 = 100!
I did not say that all 100,000 jobs were in the plants I mentioned. Kimble Glass, Libby Owens Ford Glass there are just too many companies to talk about. Even DeVilbiss that is still there moved a large operation to Pennsylvania. Over All, the "Real" unemployment since Mr. Bush came into power has about Trippled in North western Ohio and worse in North Eastern Ohio (Where Cleveland, Youngstown, Warren, are)
Also Using these figures that I got out of the paper and elsewhere I was able to stop them from making the value of my Mother's house $248,600 down to $197,000. We will still be blessed if we can sell it for $160,000 and find a buyer!
____________
Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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Ninjaman12R
Needs a job
as a Deal's Gap tour guide.
Posts: 4767
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posted October 15, 2004 06:38 AM
Ok that's it......
Ok,...all you biatches in time out. NOW!!!!!!
____________
What we're dealin' with here is a complete lack of respect for the law.
Sheriff Buford T. Justice of TEXAS
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted October 15, 2004 04:52 PM
quote:
Ok,...all you biatches in time out. NOW!!!!!!
OK! I give!
____________
Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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Hells Dark Lord
Needs a life
living life, and loving it.
Posts: 7981
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posted October 19, 2004 02:59 PM
FLUSH THE JOHNS..........like the shit they are.....
____________
When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted October 19, 2004 03:24 PM
quote:
FLUSH THE JOHNS..........like the shit they are.....
Lets throw the "Johns" and all that Sh-t into the "Bushes" then Chene them all up and put them in the Land Fill and start over!
____________
Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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slug
Pro
Out in search of my mind...
Posts: 1433
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posted October 19, 2004 04:28 PM
forgive me for i have sinned...
i bought some recycled oil barrels, and they are stamped "Halliburton Oil" on the side.....did i just make cheney richer?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vincent my comment that you take as me being selfish, is directed more at forced charity as opposed to REAL compassion and charity.
forced charity is via the US Government using its police power to take the fruits of one person's labor, and give it to another. in my eyes that is totally wrong.
the same Bible that says that you are your brother's keeper, also talks of being a good steward. it also speaks of using discernment in your dealings with others.
there are people on this site, and others, whom i have offered room, food, money, whatever was needed. for no other reason than they needed something, or *might* have the need.
but these are people i know, my "neighbors" so to speak, my "brothers"
the government takes and gives out, as per keeping votes for the next election....
i personally feel that i know better who *I* need to help out financially, with time, with cutting the grass, than the government can and will EVER know.
it is NOT my job to see to it that every person out there that loses faith in their job hunt has the support that HIS FAMILY AND COMMUNITY should already be offering. BUT the government MAKES it my job.
welfare and government handouts were the worst thing that could ever happen to people in real need. because once government took over the charity business, and FORCED people to give up their due rewards for working hard, people STOPPED being as receptive to voluntary contributions to local charities.
the federal government in essence hamstrung local-level charity, and took that power from the people. and what did it gain them? more votes, and another tactic for scaring people into voting one way or another.
Clinton's reduction of welfare stopped short of the REAL solution. but unfortunately as long as there is a government that is perceived as being the source of all relief from anything bad, we will NEVER get back to an actual family and community sense that used to exist widely throughout this nation. we will never regain that "small town" comraderie that someplaces have, that USED to be widespread.
so whether or not i am a selfish bastard or not is up to you. but realize that there are more ways to give to the down & out than to hand them a cheque and a foodstamp debit card. just because i don't support government spending on that endeavor in no way gives you the right to make assertions like that.
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Hells Dark Lord
Needs a life
living life, and loving it.
Posts: 7981
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posted October 20, 2004 04:02 AM
shame on you slug, for your pennence you will listen to Kerry talk for 5 hours straight......and if you havent gone mad by the end of it, then you are to sell the barrel, adn donate the money to the Bush campaign fund......lol
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When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted October 20, 2004 05:10 AM
Slug, Well Understood. There is a difference even in paying Tithe in Church. If you do not do it "Willingly" you might as well not do it because the Lord does not want it and you receive no Blessing! (I am only going to say this once and only in this case) you are right!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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deathpulse
Pro
Posts: 1688
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posted October 20, 2004 07:06 AM
I STILL don't see any appeal to Kerry. He sux.
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted October 20, 2004 08:44 AM
Poor People (Even the Lord said "The Poor will always be with us"!) The country cannot afford to get rid of Poor People! DHHS is an entire Department devoted to them. They are Studied about Talked About Have entire industried devoted to them. If they were not here, this country might just go under.
A real (In my mind) solution was offered onve but it was talked about so badly that no one has the nerve to do it. Stop making the requirement that you cannot have a Job to get help. Yes, help the working poor so that they can continue to work. The way it is right now, if you are working, you cannot get help. This causes a lot of people to "Quit" work because they are better off "NOT WORKING"!! To me, that is the worse thing anyone can do!
About Kerry Sux! I thought Gore was worse! Just hearing his winney voice about drove me crazy. I do not like Kerry's "Important" Voice either (Where they talk deeply to sound more important. It is not the person, it is the Ideas and what is "Perceived" they will do we vote for.
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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deathpulse
Pro
Posts: 1688
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posted October 20, 2004 10:47 AM
Thats the problem Vincent - I think the "percecption" of what Kerry will do is predicated on false pretense. His actions speak louder than his "bashing" and "arm chair quarterbacking" that have defined his approach to this election.
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