VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted November 01, 2004 02:36 PM
Moody as far as that goes, Bush never served either. AT least full time or under War Conditions. Because the National Guard now fights wars, he would not join the Crossing Guards or Meter maids 
After tomorrow, it all will not matter
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
  
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deathpulse
Pro
Posts: 1688
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posted November 01, 2004 02:37 PM
Well, I understand that you have friends etc over there - as do I. You need to understand that people who don't serve STILL care about those who do. I'm really NOT a big fan of war, but I think that Bush did make the right decision - albiet a tough one to go to war. War should NEVER be taken lightly, but sometimes there is no choice. What would have happened if we stopped Hilter before he massed up his armies (in the 1930's)?
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slug
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Out in search of my mind...
Posts: 1433
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posted November 01, 2004 04:29 PM
moody: your comment is so idiotic it isn't funny. not going to talk about hte facts or such of iraq because he never served in military?
what part of ANY of this discussion has required ANY combat experience to weigh and consider facts?
what part of this discussion has been of hte actual military OBJECTIVES and hte military ACTIONS?
none...
so get off your theoretical high horse.
i do have to agree with DP on this, when all else fails, namecalling is the best way to win.
it is SOO much easier to answer with "chickenhawk" instead of REAL facts.
good job, you make me even MORE sure of my plans to vote for Bush. people like you who cannot seperate individuals from a group label are the ROOT of the issues in this nation.
label away, i don't care. because socialists (like you yourself are acting right now) are the reason our nation is crumbling away at its core.
Vincent: i pray that you don't beleive that people who were not in combat never served. because that statement is perhaps one of the most offensive slurs that i have heard you make.
flying a fighter jet is NOT safe. it is NOT easy, it requires skills, it requires training, it requires concnetration and coordination. However, it does not require public speaking skills....
flying a fighter jet is not service? i pray there aren't any fly-boys on this board, they will eat you alive for that one.
good luck with such a myopic and ignorant world view...
i never saw combat, does that mean *I* never served? kiss my ass.
and the rest of your comments, you assume when you don't know. VERY factual, VERY logical. great job.
you ALL are giving me all kind of good compelling reasons to vote for Kerry. every one of my questions have been answered except these...
quote:
Facts we are still waiting for:
1. The details around the 350+ (or is is 350, or maybe 100?) tons of "missing" explosives in Iraq
2. The proof that demonstrates Bush EVER SAID that the reason we were going to war was due to WMD's
3. The proof that Kerry has released ALL of his service records (particulaly the records that show what his commanding officers reported about him - and the details of his discharge)
4. The proof that Kerry himself doesn't have similar or MORE financial ties than Cheney/Bush into companies that are involved in the war.
5. The proof that everyone working directly with Kerry in Vietnam thinks he would be a great commander (his OIC's don't think so...)
6. The proof that Kerry has a "Better Plan" for Iraq. God its been 18 months - all I hear is "I have a plan" - well.. WHAT IS IT?!
7. Kerry's detailed plan for Iran. I guess, since this was brought up as an issue, Kerry has delivered a much better, much more compelling direction on Iran - what is it?
as far as north korea, what do YOU propose is the correct plan of action?
what's YOUR thought?
what should we do there?
why the hell do i bother, all that i'll get is labeled a chickenhawk and labeled a stupid conservative and dismissed since i don't hold hte enlightened socilist view of the world.
i want a good compelling reason to vote FOR kerry, and not reasons to vote AGAINST bush. i have PLENTY of reasons to vote against bush, they don't happen to coincide with the petty namecalling that exists in the previous posts, but i DO have reasons NOT to vote for Bush. but i have NO ZERO NADA ZILCH reasons to vote FOR kerry. PLEASE why can't the democratic party supporters give me ANY good reason to vote FOR kerry? is it because there IS NONE?!?!?!?!?!
   
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slug
Pro
Out in search of my mind...
Posts: 1433
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posted November 01, 2004 04:36 PM
quote:
Moody as far as that goes, Bush never served either. AT least full time or under War Conditions. Because the National Guard now fights wars, he would not join the Crossing Guards or Meter maids
After tomorrow, it all will not matter
true, because even if he loses, Kerry still will claim he won, and muddy the waters with lawsuits to try like a petulant child (Al Gore?) to get his way...again....
Gore lost. period, end of story. THEN he contested the election results....but to make a long story short, he LOST.
Gore NEVER had more votes than bush in florida, EVER. There were states that had WAY more undervotes than florida, but they received no media attention or lawsuits.
Gore wanted selective recounts, to try to recount only places that might help him, and even THOSE turned up no condition where gore had more votes. NO documented and verifiable count EVER came up for Gore...
Gore whined and complained that black ballots were disenfranchised. where the HELL on the ballot is there a spot to mark "i'm black, please discard this ballot"
smoke and mirrors, sore election LOSER who couldn't stand that a few hundred voters in florida chose Bush over him.
and now, with hordes of lawyers in place to file lawsuits for "voter intimidation" (how the HELL do you intimidate a voter when the ballot is secret.....) and even claiming that he won, even if he DIDN'T... Kerry stands by to make a further mockery of our election process.
i don't get it..
but i digress....
PLEASE give me answers to the questions above.
there's only a few hours left to change minds...only a fewhours left to give some GOOD reasons and examples of hoe Kerry WILL do better. not "i have a plan" but REAL answers please.
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slug
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Out in search of my mind...
Posts: 1433
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posted November 01, 2004 05:29 PM
this is chilling...
and not something that can belaid at Kerry's feet. he neither asked for nor benefits from this. but it IS rather sad.
He brings himself off as so calm and so logical, yet in the end it is "agree with us or die" pretty much cut & dried. His beef was with our administration, but he goes after the people who ahve the least to do with the things he dislikes....many people who weren't even AMERICAN CITIZENS....
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/79C6AF22-98FB-4A1C-B21F-2BC36E87F61F.htm
i don't think i plan on being anywhere NEAR that side of the issues....that alone is enough to vote Bush. If Bin Laden hates him that bad...
quote:
But I am amazed at you. Even though we are in the fourth year after the events of September 11th, Bush is still engaged in distortion, deception and hiding from you the real causes. And thus, the reasons are still there for a repeat of what occurred.
So I shall talk to you about the story behind those events and shall tell you truthfully about the moments in which the decision was taken, for you to consider.
I say to you, Allah knows that it had never occurred to us to strike the towers. But after it became unbearable and we witnessed the oppression and tyranny of the American/Israeli coalition against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, it came to my mind.
lied there.."we never thought to strike the towers"
they did, in 1993....
quote:
It is true that this shows that al-Qaida has gained, but on the other hand, it shows that the Bush administration has also gained, something of which anyone who looks at the size of the contracts acquired by the shady Bush administration-linked mega-corporations, like Haliburton and its kind, will be convinced. And it all shows that the real loser is...you.
straight out of the DNC talking points...
quote:
It never occurred to us that the commander-in-chief of the American armed forces would abandon 50 000 of his citizens in the twin towers to face those great horrors alone, the time when they most needed him.
But because it seemed to him that occupying himself by talking to the little girl about the goat and its butting was more important than occupying himself with the planes and their butting of the skyscrapers. We were given three times the period required to execute the operations - All Praise is Due to Allah.
right out of michael moore's film...
we're on a roll....
quote:
So I say to you, over 15 000 of our people have been killed and tens of thousands injured, while more than a thousand of you have been killed and more than 10 000 injured. And Bush's hands are stained with the blood of all those killed from both sides, all for the sake of oil and keeping their private companies in business.
wow some of you here are reading from the same playbook....
quote:
In conclusion, I tell you in truth, that your security is not in the hands of Kerry, nor Bush, nor al-Qaida.
No.
Your security is in your own hands. And every state that doesn't play with our security has automatically guaranteed its own security.
says basically: you go against our wishes, we will kill you....
if you play along, we will let you be.
(ignore the fact that russia had NOTHING to do in iraq or against al qaida...but they STILL got hit....)
another endorsement AGAINST Kerry....
anyone have any positives?
he DOES bring up all of your talking points though. it MUST be true then!
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deathpulse
Pro
Posts: 1688
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posted November 01, 2004 06:50 PM
Slug man - I gotta take you out for a drink  ON ME!
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addisonzx12
Expert Class
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posted November 01, 2004 08:26 PM
The following is a EXACT quote from Bushs state of the union address 1/28/03. If you read carefully, you will see the word disarm. That should take care of your point# 2. How short some peoples memories are!! Looks like he's talking about WMD's to me!! Direct from the horses mouth!!
"The United States will ask the UN Security Council to convene on February 5th to consider the facts of Iraq's ongoing defiance of the world. Secretary of State Powell will present information and intelligence about Iraq's illegal weapons programs; its attempts to hide those weapons from inspectors; and its links to terrorist groups. We will consult, but let there be no misunderstanding: If Saddam Hussein does not fully disarm, for the safety of our people, and for the peace of the world, we will lead a coalition to disarm him. "
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addisonzx12
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posted November 01, 2004 08:36 PM
 Edited By: addisonzx12 on 1 Nov 2004 20:48
Slug, do you now have your proof on point# 2? If not, we are not speaking the same language. And any further discussion would be pointless.
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deathpulse
Pro
Posts: 1688
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posted November 01, 2004 08:37 PM
What Bush is saying there is that Sadam has been pushing the limits of the UN. At the time we suspected he MIGHT have weapons of mass distruction - but this in no way states that this is the only reason to go to war.
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addisonzx12
Expert Class
Posts: 213
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posted November 01, 2004 08:56 PM
DP, no not the only reason. Just the MAIN reason, at least as far as the general public knows! His statement said HIDE not MIGHT! Can't hide something that don't exist!
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deathpulse
Pro
Posts: 1688
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posted November 01, 2004 09:03 PM
I think the main reason was that SAddam was not complying with UN regs. Thats how I read it. I think it kinda depends on your pre-conceived position when you read it. It also mentions Iraq's ties with terrorist groups etc. So, as I have stated before, there were MANY reasons to go to war, Saddam's games with the UN was just one reason.
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slug
Pro
Out in search of my mind...
Posts: 1433
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posted November 01, 2004 09:04 PM
i agree with your CURRENT wording
but i disagree with your past wording that says that only weapons are the issue. the BIGGEST issue was his programs to build more, or devlope the nuclear ones. but by no means were WMD the only reason for dealing with hussein now rather than later.
but please go back and read what i DID say on the WMD topic.
unfotunately you OBVIOUSLY did not
The point has been beaten to death, and you fail to adress a SINGLE question i have asked....you did get on to DP's #2 point.
but please, let's move on to any of the other points?
like maybe 6 or 7.
we already know answer on 1: non-starter. oops, more forged documents style reporting?? no say it ain't so!! old news...over a year old...why is it an issue again?
3, his own words prove he has NOT released them all. so that's a waste of your time to try to contradict
4: not sure how to do that one, since i don't know that itis our business HIS investment portfolios... but since you folks are the experts at determining who has what stocks where, i'll let you all have this one for free
5. prolly another non-starter for you, yet again a waste of your efforts since only a stump could think that everyone Kerry served with supports him...
come on time is short, what's the compelling answer to why i should vote FOR kerry?
what's kerry's miracle cure for the world wanting the USA to be an obscure nation with no world influence? how is he going to get the french and germans with us in iraq? (oh wait, he already admitted THAT wasn't gonna happen....oops)
give it UP people, WHY oh WHY should someone vote for Kerry?
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deathpulse
Pro
Posts: 1688
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posted November 01, 2004 09:11 PM
I want to know how he is going to magically make para/quadra poligics walk again. Edwards said that if he and Kerry are elected, they will magically make this happen through stem cell research!!! AHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA
God. They are sick. It is SICK to give people that kind of false hope, just to get a few extra votes. BTW - Bush is NOT against stem cell research.
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deathpulse
Pro
Posts: 1688
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posted November 01, 2004 09:13 PM
SORRY - almost forgot!! Here is my proof - Edwards EXACT words:
"If we do the work that we can do in this country, the work that we will do when John Kerry is president, people like Christopher Reeve will get up out of that wheelchair and walk again," Edwards said.
Nice. SICK ASS BASTARDS.
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deathpulse
Pro
Posts: 1688
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posted November 01, 2004 09:15 PM
OK. on that note - I'm going to bed. I have to get up and VOTE tomorrow . GO BUSH GO - KICK KERRY'S ASS!!
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Scooter
Zone Head
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posted November 02, 2004 03:03 AM
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"Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional."
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Spyral
Pro
Unpredictable individual.
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posted November 02, 2004 05:46 AM
Another vote for Bush has been cast here in FLorida. =)
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted November 02, 2004 05:54 AM
quote:
Another vote for Bush has been cast here in FLorida. =)
He will be needing it!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted November 02, 2004 06:12 AM
quote:
give it UP people, WHY oh WHY should someone vote for Kerry?
I thought it was obvious. But if you really want to know I'll give you the short list.
He WILL appoint Liberal Judges to the supreme court who will protect Roe vs Wade, affirmative action, and keep God out of government and put the constitution before corporate interests.
He will try to raise taxes on the wealthiest 2 % in this country.
He will make big corporations actually pay taxes.
Electing him gives Edwards the tie breaking vote in the senate
He will work to reduce the defecit.
He will negotiate with Iran and N Korea.
He will protect entitlements and hopefully increase spending on them.
He will suck up to the arabs to reduce tensions in the middle east.
He will actually spend the 15 billion promised for AIDS in africa. NGOs who get the money will also be allowed to say the word abortion without losing their funding.
He will support generic aids drugs in africa even if big US pharma losses money on the deal.
He will appoint a National Security Advisor who actually knows something about National Security in the modern world, not a Cold Warrior.
He will force coal fired power plants to clean their emissons even it costs them tens of millions of dollars and makes their stock go down.
He will try to get congress to pass the Koyoto agreement on global warming.
He might actually appoint an enviornmentalist to head the EPA. Not a former polluter lobbiest.
He will enforce the EPA laws already on the books.
He will appoint a scientist or doctor to the FDA, not some pharma VP or lobbiest.
He will no longer require all scientific studies generated by government departments to first be vetted by the whitehouse for political impact on corporate donors before being released to the public.
He will work with congress.
He will compromise; on foriegn policy and participate in the UN. He will backup UN inititives on land mines, human rights for childeren, and the international criminal court.
He will privately appoligize to the rest of the worlds leaders for our bad behavior over the past 4 years.
(This one will never happen but it would be nice); He supports the extradition of Bush, Cheney, Rumsfield, and Wolfowitz to the ICC to stand trial for war crimes.
He will spend more money on Homeland defense in a more intelligent fashion.
He will gut and eventually cancel the missle defense program....it doesnt work any better than patriot did.
He will appoint a Sec Def who prioritizes troops over expensive systems. Reverses trend of privitazation.
He will cancel a whole bunch of expensive weapons systems.
He will no longer require all scientific studies generated by government departments to first be vetted by the whitehouse for political impact on corporate donors before being released to the public.
He will fire all the bush appointees and replace them with good liberals who will go after people like Ken Lay first and worry about the Martha Stewarts if they have time. They will nail Haliburton to the wall.
He will reduce money to faith based orgs. and put the money back in federal programs where it belongs.
I could go on and on. Isnt that enough?
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted November 02, 2004 08:13 AM
The Above list is Why I voted today for Kerry (Most of them anyway 
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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moodybluezx12r
Expert Class
Posts: 344
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posted November 02, 2004 08:48 AM
quote:
"Moody Blues" Glad you could Join us! You found the one time that Bush told the truth and see how much trouble he got into! When Kerry said the same thing, Bush jumped on him like he has no memory of (Wait a minute, he does not have a memory for anything he has said even when they show him saying it)
The good news is, "Tomorrow is Abstain from Sex Day"!! "NO Dick and No Bush"!! Hail to the Redskins The only time I wanted them to lose:Rolleyes
thanks vince...glad to fight the fight...i'm guessing we're out numbered 5 to 1 here...what you think?..
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted November 02, 2004 09:36 AM
"thanks vince...glad to fight the fight...i'm guessing we're out numbered 5 to 1 here...what you think?.. "
No one with 4 or less Digits in their last name had ever been "Re-Elected".
Tomorrow, we will see that the only place we were out numbered was on "THIS" Board, but the Country is much smarter about the real world..
On another note, I am really surprized that "Osama Bin Laddin" was not suddenly captured and displayed on TV? (As the October Surprize) He hopes that Bush is re-elected so he can stay safe in Afganstain while Bush has the Military looking for him in Iraq
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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slug
Pro
Out in search of my mind...
Posts: 1433
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posted November 02, 2004 11:59 AM
I thought it was obvious. But if you really want to know I'll give you the short list.
He WILL appoint Liberal Judges to the supreme court who will protect Roe vs Wade, affirmative action, and keep God out of government and put the constitution before corporate interests.
The united states constitution affirms God, and Kerry proclaims his faith in God. How is HE your man with this?
to me pro abortion = pro murder. a moral reason NOT to vote Kerry. so this one is negated. next...
He will try to raise taxes on the wealthiest 2 % in this country.
that's a good class warfare reason, but why are they any less entitiled to their pay and allowances? useless.
He will make big corporations actually pay taxes.
Big corporations DO pay taxes, that's why it is so expensive for them to do business here. Hence outsourcing.... *oops*
Electing him gives Edwards the tie breaking vote in the senate
When have we needed a tie broken? the issues so far have been pretty cut & dried... but in any case, how is this positive?
He will work to reduce the defecit.
not if you pay attention to HIS OWN website, and all the NEW federal spending programs he is proposing.... sorry, this one's a loser too.
He will negotiate with Iran and N Korea.
GW Bush is already doing exactly that. advantage? none.
He will protect entitlements and hopefully increase spending on them.
"entitlements" who is "entitled" to anything? WHAT are they "entitled" to? please elaborate on what this really means..
He will suck up to the arabs to reduce tensions in the middle east.
actually he will suck up to the United Nations, but that's another great reason NOT to elect him.
we don't need a president who will "suck up to" anyone....
if the president is too busy sucking up, how can he be a LEADER...
He will actually spend the 15 billion promised for AIDS in africa. NGOs who get the money will also be allowed to say the word abortion without losing their funding.
huh? where did he say this? what's this mean in real world terms?
He will support generic aids drugs in africa even if big US pharma losses money on the deal.
if a business loses money, then why would they continue to do business? just like the flu vaccines, the government stepped in and said that the company could NOT make profit on flu vaccines. so they stopped making them altogether... if a business cannot make a profit then it will fail..
He will appoint a National Security Advisor who actually knows something about National Security in the modern world, not a Cold Warrior.
who is his appointee?
He will force coal fired power plants to clean their emissons even it costs them tens of millions of dollars and makes their stock go down.
GW Bush enabled coal plants to PERFORM upgrades which REDUCE emissions, without REQUIRING full 100% upgrades...lkike clinton wanted, which would cost the people who buy power (consumers) a boatload of money... Clinton's "plan" and Kerry's "plan" will force plants to stay un-upgraded just to keep close to actual demand....which leaves us with the same old dirty plants until they fall apart....
He will try to get congress to pass the Koyoto agreement on global warming.
Kyoto agreement is an idiotic agreement. It forces a few nations to abide by some insane standard, and allows others to pollute as much as possible. IF kyoto required ALL countries to abide by same rules, pass it. we don't pass itbecause it does NOT have equal protection under the law for allnations involved.
He might actually appoint an enviornmentalist to head the EPA. Not a former polluter lobbiest.
might...
He will enforce the EPA laws already on the books.
How?
He will appoint a scientist or doctor to the FDA, not some pharma VP or lobbiest.
Who?
He will no longer require all scientific studies generated by government departments to first be vetted by the whitehouse for political impact on corporate donors before being released to the public.
huh?
He will work with congress.
he never really worked IN senate, why should he start now?
He will compromise; on foriegn policy and participate in the UN. He will backup UN inititives on land mines, human rights for childeren, and the international criminal court.
this is ignorant. the United nations is a waste of time and space. it has proven so in the last 20 years of inaction. why should we continue to prop up this waste of valuable real estate in new york, when it is so corrupt that it cannot keep its own sanctions?!
He will privately appoligize to the rest of the worlds leaders for our bad behavior over the past 4 years.
oh please...that's a good one. where did he say that?
(This one will never happen but it would be nice); He supports the extradition of Bush, Cheney, Rumsfield, and Wolfowitz to the ICC to stand trial for war crimes.
He will spend more money on Homeland defense in a more intelligent fashion.
how? where's the reality?
He will gut and eventually cancel the missle defense program....it doesnt work any better than patriot did.
how do you know it cannot work?
He will appoint a Sec Def who prioritizes troops over expensive systems. Reverses trend of privitazation.
have you ever been in military? have you ever dealt with GOVERNMENT provided parts and equipment? the BEST thing the DOD EVER did was start buying from private sector. And using civilian companies to perform work. get a clue. oh wait, you are union supporter aren't you....the unions HATE private businesses because they can usually do the work better, faster, and cheaper than unionized shops can....
He will cancel a whole bunch of expensive weapons systems.
like?
He will no longer require all scientific studies generated by government departments to first be vetted by the whitehouse for political impact on corporate donors before being released to the public.
you already said that. but again, explain what this means?
He will fire all the bush appointees and replace them with good liberals who will go after people like Ken Lay first and worry about the Martha Stewarts if they have time. They will nail Haliburton to the wall.
this makes no sense....
He will reduce money to faith based orgs. and put the money back in federal programs where it belongs.
why do faith based organizations not deserve same "entitlements" that non faith-based organizations enjoy?
I could go on and on. Isnt that enough?
not at all. NOTHING you have said is a GOOD reason to vote for Kerry, either the reason itself is useless, or it is already in progress.
good try though...
please, elaborate, what EXACTLY does kerry plan to do? nothing new as best as i can se from the previous "reasons" which are based in an ideology of the government owning everyone and everything, and the government (controlled byliberals of course) deciding just WHO gets to have WHAT and WHEN. sounds like freedom to me.....
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addisonzx12
Expert Class
Posts: 213
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posted November 02, 2004 01:54 PM
Slug, what Kerry plans to do is simple! Replace Bush. LOL!!
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted November 02, 2004 01:59 PM
quote:
He will no longer require all scientific studies generated by government departments to first be vetted by the whitehouse for political impact on corporate donors before being released to the public.
you already said that. but again, explain what this means?
Why does it suprise me you have no clue about this?
http://www.ucsusa.org/publications/catalyst.cfm?publicationID=852
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=0001E02A-A14A-1084-983483414B7F0000&sc=I100322
quote:
In February, more than 60 doctors and senior-level scientists, including 20 Nobel laureates and 19 recipients of the National Medal of Science, issued a statement drafted by UCS Chair Kurt Gottfried demanding: "The distortion of scientific knowledge for partisan political ends must cease if the public is to be properly informed about issues central to its well-being, and the nation is to benefit fully from its heavy investment in scientific research and education." The statement was accompanied by a UCS report titled Scientific Integrity in Policymaking, which documents the Bush administration's politicization of science across numerous federal agencies and advisory panels.
quote:
He will gut and eventually cancel the missle defense program....it doesnt work any better than patriot did.
how do you know it cannot work?
It hasn't so far. Don't you think they should prove it works before we dump 60 billion into it? Besides the entire premise is stupid. If I had a nuke why would I be so stupid as to launch it on an ICBM which will allow norad to back track the launch site and blow me off the face of the map. Why wouldn't I simply put it in a ship container and let someone deliver it for me. Or put it on an airliner etc. etc.
This technology has only one real application and that is to take out space launch vheicles. The US wants to remain the only military power in space and want to be in a position to take out chinese space craft spy satellites etc. at launch.
quote:
He will compromise; on foriegn policy and participate in the UN. He will backup UN inititives on land mines, human rights for childeren, and the international criminal court.
this is ignorant. the United nations is a waste of time and space. it has proven so in the last 20 years of inaction. why should we continue to prop up this waste of valuable real estate in new york, when it is so corrupt that it cannot keep its own sanctions?!
It comes down to this.....NO JUSTICE, NO PEACE. Lets see if I can bring this down to your level.....(I know its a waste of time to try but maybe somebody else will get something out of this.)
....actually.....I think I'll go watch Kerry win the election instead.
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