BA
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posted August 09, 2004 07:39 PM
 Edited By: BA on 9 Aug 2004 21:00
What does a new engine sound like?!?!?!
The ol' 1287 got fired up tonight!!
Everything is caught on film, even the massive fuel leak when I first pressed the button and realized I forgot to connect one of the lines under the seat! 
I'm perplexed though. Now, granted, I happen to have the old well done PCIIIR map in there for the stock displacement with header, etc, but she don't want to stay running for too long yet.
The fast idle is pretty much useless for now but physically it's doing it's job.
It was very hard to get the initial firing up, and it even back-fired on 2 different attempts which concerned me!
Finally I got it running by holding the throttle open about 25% and then keep it there to keep it running. Well, ok, it feels like 25%, I'll measure it tomorrow.
When it is running, I've been keeping it mostly at 3000-3500 with blips to 4000 or 4500. It doesn't seem to want to run under 3000 yet. Not sure if it's map related?? I wouldn't expect major map changes just to keep it running.
All in all, it would usually die if I let the rpm's get below 3000 so I had to re-start it about 6 times. Each time it would SEEM to run longer,....maybe my throttle hand was getting better at holding 3000-3500. (very small movement range)
Run-time varied between 10 sec and 30-40 sec.
I honestly thought it would pretty much be able to at least hold a 2000-2500 "idle" after getting fired up.
Was I expecting too much???
Thoughts? Comments on the RPM's I'm holding for now?
is this normal??
PS. She doesn't exactly sound stock any more.  heheh
  
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MadMike
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posted August 09, 2004 07:41 PM
REMAP IT.....
and then she will be ok.
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ZXLNT
Needs a job
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posted August 09, 2004 08:29 PM
Edited By: ZXLNT on 9 Aug 2004 22:52
Or disconnect the PC and see what happens. It should idle fine even being a 1287 motor. My 1270 idles no different than my stock engine did. Double check and make sure all sensors are hooked up right. Lots of wires to hook back up after the engine has been out...
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dougmeyer
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posted August 09, 2004 08:48 PM
BA,
Your engine should run pretty much just like a stocker and should idle and "blip" normally. Look into the stuff you messed with.
Doug
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psycho1122
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posted August 09, 2004 09:01 PM
Check your cams...They could be 180 out
Believe it or not it will run like you described w/ the cams in 180 out 
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MadMike
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posted August 09, 2004 09:08 PM
my 1361 would not even fire without the PCIII hooked up.
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Ra12r
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posted August 10, 2004 04:13 AM
1)Unplug the pc3
2) What psycho said.....
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dougmeyer
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posted August 10, 2004 06:29 AM
Also what psycho said.
Now, how do you think that us three "experts" know that?........
Doug
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swft
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posted August 10, 2004 06:31 AM
25% Throttle? Are you sure it's firing on all cylinders?
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MadMike
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posted August 10, 2004 07:06 AM
LOL... you learn by doing... what does vincent say something along the lines of "experience is something you have 5 minutes after you need it."
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psycho1122
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posted August 10, 2004 07:27 AM
Doug....
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BA
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posted August 10, 2004 08:59 AM
Ok, Great advice guys. Thanks!
I re-checked all sensors and wiring this morning. Everything seems to be in order.
1. I'll load the new map tonight. I still need to get one, I was betting on the .org site to have one that's 1270/1290 ish.
2. Disconnect PCIIIR - haven't done it yet as it was late last night, but we all know they have brought down many a bike.
3. Verify all cylinders are firing.
4. Check cam orientation. (stock cams)
Forgive my ignorance here, but, is there a simple way of checking, or do I have to lower engine and just make the change and see how it goes?
Unfortunately, I fear it is #4. Having you guys mention that also just adds fuel to that fire. 
Related note: the engine builder **DID** have trouble getting them timed correctly. I may have even posted about it.
Also, I've ran a small block chevy once or twice at 180 degrees out and, ya know, it had a similar sound. Hmmmmm.
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MadMike
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posted August 10, 2004 10:06 AM
at TDC the cam lobes should be at like 2 o'clock and 10 o'clock on the #4 by the cam chain. unless I am having a major brain fart. which has happened before. and no you do not need to drop the motor to check or change.
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dougmeyer
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posted August 10, 2004 12:12 PM
That's TDC #1&4, of course.
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BA
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posted August 10, 2004 03:30 PM
I disconn' the PCIIIR and it's still fooked. (as suspected)
so, now I have the valve cover off and want to check to see if I'm 180 out.
Two questions though....
I guess I have to remove that top silver/metal 'girdle' thing, eh? Looks like a stud girdle or something, has like 20 bolts holding it in.
Seems like I wouldn't be able to see the cam lobe position unless I removed it.
Also, Do I verify TDC via the timing mark on the left side of engine under the alternator cover?
I'll read the manual, but keep the help coming guys! I need it.
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ZXLNT
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posted August 10, 2004 04:47 PM
Right side where the timing rotor is, and no once u get the valve cover off you can see the end cam lobe on each camshaft..
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MadMike
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posted August 10, 2004 05:36 PM
Call me BA, and I can chat... if you want
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BA
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posted August 10, 2004 06:08 PM
Edited By: BA on 10 Aug 2004 19:20
whoops! too late Mike! heheh
I was able to see the lobes on the left side of the engine, but honestly, they were covered on the right side of the engine. I shoulda taken a picture.....
Unfortunately, I think my shizzle is right where you guys said it should be!
I did the TDC thing, lined up with the timing line on the 'block'. The cam lobes for #4 were roughly at the 10 and 2 oclock position as mentioned above.
Assuming that what I saw was correct, now I'm REALLY wondering WTF is keeping the engine from running right........
I'll try to get some pics up here as soon as I host them.....
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krexken
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posted August 10, 2004 06:13 PM
Make that 4 experts!
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BA
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posted August 10, 2004 06:23 PM
dog gonnit krexken, is it my cams or what!?!?!
PIC BELOW IS FROM LEFT SIDE OF ENGINE........
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BA
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posted August 10, 2004 06:42 PM
Edited By: BA on 10 Aug 2004 19:44
Is it relevant that I had my ECU replaced during the engine rebuild??
I turned in the original 00 model one because it doesn't work well at higher altitudes like the Blue Ridge Parkway. There's a Kawasaki bulletin out on it and the swap was covered, no charge.
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MadMike
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posted August 10, 2004 09:06 PM
looks correct to me?
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VincentHill
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posted August 11, 2004 11:20 AM
Edited By: VincentHill on 11 Aug 2004 12:22
This does not look correct to me! That "T" Mark is for "Timing" and should be on the other side where the pick up is! "CAREFULLY READ YOUR MANUAL" BECAUSE I think that is wrong. I think the rotor has to have one of those tips at the split in the case. Remember, the engine is firing about 30 degrees before Top Dead Center which would mean that at top dead Center the "Timing" Mark should be past the Pick Up Mark on the "OTHERSIDE of the housing. That is why there is a nub that is aligned with the case where you now have the timing mark!
The statement is
"Experience is ALWAYS something you get immediately AFTER you need it!"
Once you get the cams in time, and everything is bolted back together I would seriously check the compression to make sure there were no Valves kissing the Pistons! Look at the bad pictures in the Book to make sure I am right !
I might add that it looks like #1 is just starting on the intake stroke knowing the rotation of the Cams and just finishing the exhaust stroke! I would say yes, You are 180 degrees off!
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MadMike
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posted August 11, 2004 12:44 PM
No those pictures are correct. the line should be at the seam of the case. But you need to make sure your piston is at TDC with a stop or something like that. Also you need to count your cam spacing and make sure that your cams are in correct. from the looks of the picture your exhaust cam is 1 tooth off to far clockwise. you need to make sure your exhaust is level like the manual says and count your pins to the intake and make sure it is ok. from those photo's and if your at TDC #4,#1 your cams are NOT 180 deg. out.
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Ra12r
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posted August 11, 2004 12:49 PM
Mine didn't want to run worth a hoot just like yours and I forced the issue. Went to the track thinking I could just "clear out" the system. My mph was 139 with like dead power after 1st gear. I told myself that the cams were just at a bad choice of degrees. On the 7th pass crossing the finish line it shut off! ........... Broke one exhaust valve and drove it into the head, bent the other one, kissed ALL the pistons, scratched a cylinder, ruined all the pistons and exhaust valves, spun a main bearing and ruined the cases. I am still watching others at the track instead of racing!!! Moral of the story, if the bike isn't running right there is a real reason after a fresh re-build.
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