hondo
Expert Class
Posts: 140
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posted January 15, 2002 09:39 PM
Part of the extended break-in is due to the coated aluminum cylinder bores and probably the ring material. My Triumph has the same type coating and it specified a break-in procedure even longer than Kawasaki's, I quote, "if maximum performance, read ring seal, is to be realized then adhearance to the protracted break-in procedure is encouraged".
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RocketRacer
Novice Class
Posts: 82
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posted January 15, 2002 09:40 PM
Hmmm... oh, well! If it's any consolation, my 12R has never been to the dragstrip - but I've been cranking it up to 12,000-12,100 RPM on the tach through multiple gears since it has had around 700 miles on the odometer. No hard launches, but LOTS and LOTS of full-throttle pulls in gears 2 through 5 (it's addictive, ya know!). Engine seems fine, but I suppose they all seem fine right up until "that" moment! I've got the 3-year extended warranty --- just in case!!
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zx9r
Expert Class
Posts: 227
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posted January 15, 2002 10:11 PM
..
i dont know what was done. kevin replaced the bearings for me. i hope I dont have to worry about the new ones 
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-----00 GREEN 1270-----
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RocketRacer
Novice Class
Posts: 82
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posted January 15, 2002 10:22 PM
What's the deal on the cylinders? Kawi wasn't the first to use Nickasil (spelling?) coated aluminum bores - and I don't recall the others that used it specifying an extended break-in period. I dunno!!
First I heard of extending the break-in procedure on the 12R was immediately after a test bike threw a rod during some testing in Germany. And the break-in procedure was 2,000 miles on the European models weeks before U.S. Kawasaki decided to change it here in the states.
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INTRA
Expert Class
Posts: 307
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posted January 15, 2002 11:22 PM
The break in period was not for the rings,cylinder,etc,it was becuase these bikes were losing bottom ends,trashing cases,bearings,rods,etc,but kawasaki didn't know yet why,so they prudently directed a prolonged break-in period,having said that,I poppped my first motor by late april of 2000,2 and a half mos. after I bought mine,I broke it in like my zx9(rev limiter leaving the dealership),but then it fell over,oil light,then motor locked(I have told this story like 10 times)dealer warranted the work,then I had a 1270 put on,it fell over again,but drag raced it for a few weeks afterwords,end result-oil light,trashed bearings,cases,so,I believe there is a problem with these 12's,we need better bearings,better oil flow,and a more shock-obsorbant motor-my 2 cents guys&gals.
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kcadby
Pro
Posts: 1733
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posted January 15, 2002 11:57 PM
Yes...I plasti-guaged all the bearings...
None of ZX9R's bearings were "tight" in his motor when I was done...he also has a balanced, polished crank now...I could SEE that the journals were 'smoother' (polished) better than when I took it apart so...his motor was...BETTER than new when I was done with it...
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kzz1
Zone Head
"Show me whatcha workin with"
Posts: 908
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posted January 16, 2002 03:23 AM
 Edited By: kzz1 on 16 Jan 2002 03:24
quote:
I had a 1270 put on,it fell over again,but drag raced it for a few weeks afterwords,end result-oil light,trashed bearings,cases,so,I believe there is a problem with these 12's,we need better bearings,better oil flow,and a more shock-obsorbant motor-my 2 cents guys&gals.
Intra.... How many miles did you have the first and second time when this happen? Have you got the bike up and running? What have you done differently? Sounds like to me that this motor is going to coutinue to have bearing problems? I'm trying to understand what does a tip over have to do with the bearings? What does Kawasaki have to say about this?
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kzz1
Zone Head
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posted January 16, 2002 03:32 AM
Edited By: kzz1 on 16 Jan 2002 03:48
quote:
Yes...I plasti-guaged all the bearings...
None of ZX9R's bearings were "tight" in his motor when I was done...he also has a balanced, polished crank now...I could SEE that the journals were 'smoother' (polished) better than when I took it apart so...his motor was...BETTER than new when I was done with it...
kcadby.... do you have the bearing spec for the rod and mains? If I understand correctly ZX9R stated his engine was a half hour for spinning his bearings? If that the case, did you find out what the problem was base on his statement? Was the bearings loose or was it not getting enough oil pressure? Who balanced & poilshed the crank? I'm thinking that when I tear into ZX12 Girl's bike, i'm going to have it check and done!?
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krexken
Zone Head
Posts: 732
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posted January 16, 2002 04:26 AM
I put my engine back together with the original bearings. The main clearance was .0015. I'm thinking of busting it back open and going with some looser bearings although I believe .0015 was within spec. All this bearing talk has gotten me nervous. My motor is still on the bench so it's no real big deal right now. Rods were .002-.0025. I'm happier with those.
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harryzx-12
Needs a job
Posts: 3643
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posted January 16, 2002 05:01 AM
I just saw this thread
I was driving up to NC yesterday. I am going to the dealer today to talk to the mechanic that took my engine apart.I talked with the service guy before. He told me it was #4 rod bearing that finally locked up (#4 rod is toast)and my mains weren't looking pretty either particullary on the rt. side. I asked him if the crank or cases were damaged and he said no.I should know more this afternoon.
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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways- Body thoroughly used up, totally worn out...Screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride !!!"
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kzz1
Zone Head
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posted January 16, 2002 05:04 AM
Edited By: kzz1 on 16 Jan 2002 05:05
HarryZx12R...... Can you find out from the dealer what was the underlying cause of this problem and is there and oil pressure problem with this engine?
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MO
Expert Class
Posts: 128
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posted January 16, 2002 05:29 AM
I took a look at the oil pump picts & it looks like the 2002 oil pump could very well fit [higher volume] one of yall with your engine a part ought to check it out & let us know
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ra12r
Zone Head
Posts: 919
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posted January 16, 2002 07:09 AM
I just tore my engine down after about 15,000 hard miles, with about half of those with a 1270 kit. All of the bearing looked okay. There was some mild shiny areas on all of them, but would have lasted for a good while in any case. My bike has been dropped and slid on both sides while running. That did not affect the motor. (NO OFFENSE INTRA, but your bike falling over is not your cause of a problem!)
I purchased my bike march 2000 as the first bike at the dealership. So mine was part of the first batch. However, i did NOT run my bike LOW on oil to gain more horsepower, that is STUPID!!!!! I rode the bike 120 miles and then did a roll-on race with a busa and hit the rev limiter in 1st and 2nd! Breakin period over after that!!!
I have been to the track, and done many top ends, and held it at 11,400 just below rev limiting for up to 2-3 miles on many occassions. The bearings go out for a few reasons,,,,no oil or too tight or not totally true journals,,(hmmm) Whatever the problem is, it is not uniform like the gas gauge issue.
I would strongly suggest that everyone run the "PROPER" amount of oil as a starting point.
Secondly, it is possible that with the compression of the motor, on pump gas and people advancing their timing, that long term mild detonation is causing some problems. I personally had my timing set to 3-4 degrees just to play it a little safe. NO one has clearly stated where the threshold is for detonation and it is not as easy to adjust as a distributor on a car....just turn and feel/listen for the obvious point not to go past while watching with a timing light.... So a question to ask is "HAS THE TIMING BEEN ADVANCED ON ALL THESE MOTORS?!" This coupled with low oil content creates a bad enviroment for bearing life. I don't know what the oil pressure is, but that would be a nice thing to add to Extremes list of what a bike should have,,,oil pressure guage! with a DuMMY light!! Dummy light is NOT enough!!!!!!! Our Instrument panel should be able to monitor all engines functions because the computer does...
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kcadby
Pro
Posts: 1733
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posted January 16, 2002 10:43 AM
Edited By: kcadby on 16 Jan 2002 11:01
The last time ZX9R's motor was run before I took it apart was...AT THE TRACK...I ran 9.70s on his bike then I took it home to install the 1270 kit...
This is what came out of his motor :o
Do I feel lucky that it didn't BLOW at the track???
YEEEup!!! 
The rest of the bearings looked...OK...but NOT great...I replaced ALL the bearings...
He had a PC3 go bad on his way to Daytona...rode it to Daytona..."using" almost a whole tank of gas in like 20 minutes!!! Friend said raw gas was coming out of exhaust...
He disconected the PC3 then...RODE THE BIKE FOR HUNDREDS of miles with contaminated oil...
I believe that...THAT along with "possibly tight" bearings is what caused the above damage...
LOTS of long wheelies??? MIGHT not help either??? (damn I love doing long wheelies )...
The bearing had actually collapsed (LOTS OF HEAT) and FELL OUT OF THE ROD when I took it apart...
Falicon...straightened, balanced and polished the crank...for about $300...
Here are the numbers you are asking for...
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madmike
Moderator
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posted January 16, 2002 01:36 PM
WoW Kevin mine does not even look close to that bad!!
mad mike
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justoyz2
Zone Head
Justoyz Racing
Posts: 858
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posted January 16, 2002 01:58 PM
Tight bearings, Tight bearings.....sorry to say, but Kawi has followed their tradition (zx11)with the starvation problem. I am about to tear down my motor and check the bearings(goodmeasures) I don't want to risk spinning another bearing(cases)I think that's the safe bet, specially if you have been racing your 12 at the track.
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted January 16, 2002 02:05 PM
My .02
The brgs. that kevin pictured were most probably damaged by the fuel in the oil.
I agree with 'bout everything Ra12 had to say, and I think people expect their bearings to look better than they usually do when a mass-assembled PRODUCTION engine is raced.
When I was building the aluminum 495 inch Can Am engines in the 70's I had bearing shells to choose from that varied in thickness in gradations of .0001". I had rods and cranks round within .0001", and a HUGE oil pump. When disassebling these engines after 500 miles of World Championship level racing, the bearings looked simply un-used, perfect. We commonly re-used them until they had some foreign object damage or oil loss failure. That was in a perfect world. We don't have that here. We have cranks and rods round within .0005", three thicknesses of bearings to pick from and an oil pump desiged for maximum efficiency over thousands of miles of STREET use. If you are going to race, expect to inspect and expect to regularly replace as needed.
Doug
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madmike
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posted January 16, 2002 03:10 PM
Doug,I know this is not a perfect world, in a realistic world once I build my 1361 and race it how often should I pull the motor and check the bearings, and would that be Rod only? or everything, Working Full time and Racing Every Weekend, I really dont want to tear into my motor untill next season! am I building something I am going to have to tear apart every week? I hope not. Well thanks in advance for any input!!
mad mike
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kzz1
Zone Head
"Show me whatcha workin with"
Posts: 908
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posted January 16, 2002 05:26 PM
Thanks kcadby.................. and D. Meyer for the informative info. provided. What should the oil pressure be atwith this engine? Rumor is that the 02 have a high volume oil pump? Anyone hear the samething and if so why?
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted January 16, 2002 08:02 PM
Mike,
If you're only drag racing it, I could say 500 miles- that's
2000 passes or I could say 100 miles, that's 400 passes or a little over an hour of running at WOT. Who the hell knows. You just made it a full season, no? If you'd checked it once during that time you would have theoretically had twice the margin of safety. Just put it together right and go race. Sometimes you guys think too much 
Doug
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MadMike
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posted January 16, 2002 09:19 PM
Thanks Doug!! You will be seeing it soon Im sure! LOL.. actually you probably wont see it. Thanks for all of the great Input!
mad mike
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INTRA
Expert Class
Posts: 307
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posted January 17, 2002 09:13 PM
KZZ1,My 12 has 4200 miles on the odometer,stock motor blew first time at 1100 miles,I had no mods at the time,new cases(broken guide),cam,rods etc,my bike isn't finished,but this topic and others like these are usefull,I want the best bearings for the crank,and the best oiling system possible,also,it wasn't just a tip over,the first time it hit,it sounded like a plane crash,(not really),the sec.time it fell,it hit on the other side,but it didn't start running bad until a couple weeks later-though in both instances,the oil light came on,but the secound time,it came on only after I raced it,and also,there was a 40 shot of dry nos put to it after it fell(w/the 1270),I went into the limiter a few times with the button squeezed.so it's no surprise it blew(but no top end dammage at all),best highlight on the dope,we pilled up in the 8th mile one night just to see what she'd do,well,I sprayed in 2nd gear after s-shifting from 1st and it took the f--k out!Jumped up so fast that I missed 3rd-and with the button still pushed and gas WFO,I kicked it into 3rd and the bike stood strait up 12 o'clock,not a quick run,but 6.20 @ 129mph(the wheel came down after I went through the traps.Good light show too when she bottomed out on the landing.
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INTRA
Expert Class
Posts: 307
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posted January 17, 2002 09:19 PM
http://www.printroom.com/_vti_bin/ViewImage.dll?userid=1361&album_id=37379&image_id=11&courtesy=1
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INTRA
Expert Class
Posts: 307
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posted January 17, 2002 09:21 PM
So how do you post pics on the site?I tried the labusas way...
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MadMike
Moderator
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posted January 17, 2002 09:43 PM
there ya go dude..
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