MadMike
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posted January 14, 2002 08:32 PM
Engine Update.
Well I took off the oilpan tonight and the #2 and #3 pistons and rods, not great news, found a small piece of steel in the oil pan about 1/8" x 1/4" very thin not sure where it goes and my #2 bearing was about ready to go, my buddy said I would have definatly Not made it through to July! so good news is Im tearing it down so It did not fail in use, and Ill find out where that broken piece came from and let you all know!
mad mike
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kzz1
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posted January 14, 2002 09:16 PM
I hope this is not a problem with the 12? Looks like I'm going look into ZX 12 Girl's bike when I tear it down! 
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kzz1
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posted January 14, 2002 09:19 PM
When you said #2 was about ready to go, Was it wearing into the copper part of the bearing and what did the rod journal look like? Have any pics!
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MO
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posted January 14, 2002 09:21 PM
How many passes & miles on the bottom end? sounds reasuring to me.
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MadMike
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posted January 14, 2002 09:32 PM
Well I have around 6300 miles and about 700 passes on it. around anyway.
no it was not wearing into the copper yet but you could see the aluminum melting around! on the top and bottom of the inside of the bearing, I will have some pictures tommorow or wend. but my #3 looked fine?
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kzz1
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posted January 14, 2002 09:44 PM
 Edited By: kzz1 on 14 Jan 2002 22:34
I was looking at Harry ZX12 post when he spun a bearing and ZX9R said his was a half hour from going? This don't sound good! Did you maintain proper oil level in the engine? Maybe I should hookup an oil pressure gauge to see how much oil pressure the bike has at idle (warm up) and at different rpms and under a load? I'm not saying its an oil pressure problem but, if it not getting enough oil pressure to the bearings then this could be a big problem? I would plasti gage the rods and mains the way they are now. Anyone know what the clearences are for the rod and mains? I have a manual but i'm in the house not in the garage. If I was to guess, I'd say that you might have a tight bearing?
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MadMike
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posted January 14, 2002 10:05 PM
I believe that I always had enough oil in the bike! but since I had the bike brand new I was always told to run the oil at the Low mark or just above on the sight glass. Hell Rickey Gadson even told me that. but I do have 700 Dragstrip Passes on her.
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RocketRacer
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posted January 14, 2002 10:41 PM
I don't want to sound like a butthole..... but 700 all-out dragstrip passes will surely take it's toll on the engine! Rickey Gadson probably doesn't have to worry much about the expenses of repairing/replacing engine components like a "regular guy" would.
The GS1100/1150 and KZ900/1000 engines are legendary for their durability in the drag-racing arena - but they have roller-bearing cranks!!
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MadMike
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posted January 14, 2002 10:47 PM
You dont sound at all like a butthole, I was kind of worried about my bike through the year as I was going faster and faster. we will see how everything else looks.
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kzz1
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posted January 14, 2002 10:53 PM
Wish Kawasaki would go back to a roller bearing crank! 
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ZXtra
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posted January 14, 2002 11:28 PM
Re: oil pressure
One of the changes that Kawasaki made to the 2002 model was a larger capacity oil pump. It would nice if it would fit the earlier models, but I don't know yet.  -ZXtra
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RocketRacer
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posted January 14, 2002 11:29 PM
Yeah... you guys know how it is in the racing game --- if you want to play, you've got to pay!!
I love my 12R and will eventually take it to the strip for a few passes just to see what kind of times I can muster up. [Probably not that impressive!] I've still got a nice '83 GS-1100E in the garage and THAT'S the bike I'm going to do my serious playing with on the dragstrip!! My funds are limited and I just can't justify setting up the 12R for serious dragstrip action. But the GS-1100 --- what else is it good for now?? It's sure not a canyon-carver! Besides, I've already got the 1100 crank trued and welded, got the Falicon billet clutch basket, heavy-duty trans bearings and cylinder studs, etc., etc.. If I blow the Suzuki up it won't be as big of a deal to me. Old GS1100's never really die - they just get bored and stroked!!
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kzz1
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posted January 14, 2002 11:40 PM
quote:
Old GS1100's never really die - they just get bored and stroked!!
I know what you mean! Me and a buddy a few years back built his 83 1100ES, extended arm, Cam Motion G3 cams, ported head- Schnitz Racing, Weisco 1166 kit , Mikuni RS flat slides -38's, air shifter, welded crank, undercut trans and still riding it as of last year!:P They never die 
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RocketRacer
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posted January 15, 2002 12:35 AM
KZZ-
I've got the Wiseco 1166 kit in mine right now. Would like to go bigger, but it will have to wait due to lack of funds! Still have the stock '83 camshafts in it right now - degreed 106 intake and 110 exhaust. [The bike is currently set up for street riding.] Not a whole lot of other goodies engine-related - aftermarket 4-into-1 exhaust, K&N individual filters, Dynojet jet kit and a manual cam chain adjuster pretty much sum it up. I used to have a lot of fun on this old beast until the ZX-12R came along!!
Lots of work to be done in the future on the Suzuki to get it set up for racing. But, hey.... projects like that are fun, right?
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RocketRacer
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posted January 15, 2002 12:38 AM
Whoops!! Sorry, Mike - I didn't mean to run off with the thread like that. I'll shut up now.
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kzz1
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posted January 15, 2002 03:21 AM
quote:
KZZ-
Lots of work to be done in the future on the Suzuki to get it set up for racing. But, hey.... projects like that are fun, right?
OH.... forgot to mention, we also install the street version Starcycle siderwinder 4 into 1 exhaust from Star Racing minus the baffle (loud) and it is alot of fun building motors that.... RUN and put a smile on your  Sorry Mike back to the topic
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zx9r
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posted January 15, 2002 06:25 AM
...
Its not the oil amount that caused MY problem. I always have at least 4 jugs in there and on average have changed the oil every 1500-2000 miles. Everytime I take it in I changed the oil. Originally, I thought it was caused by the incicdent with the pc3 but maybe not. There seems to be an awful lot of people saying once their motor was apart, there bearings looked beat up. Now, I just wonder if the replaced bearings are going to hold up better than the originals.
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justoyz2
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Justoyz Racing
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posted January 15, 2002 09:01 AM
Guys/Gals, the problem with the main bearing wearing out is with the set up from the factory. They put the engine together too tight. I had the same problem with my bike around the same miles that you have. The only different is I didn't head the warning of the brass in my oil, when I finally took it to the shop I got the run around from the dealership and they ended up messing up my warrenty with Kawi> The guy told me my bike was ready; I picked it up took it down my favorite back road and spun a bearing. When you put it back together, don't use the blue, us the black. I think they are the middle size main bearing. The engine will last longer. If you plan to race, I would reccomend using (Lucus oil treatment-oil stabilizer) The end result for me was to purchase a motor from a wrecked bike, because it messed up my cases and crank. I was riding and racing my bike, it appears that you have been racing more then riding, which explains the 700 passes.
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kzz1
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posted January 15, 2002 01:49 PM
Edited By: kzz1 on 15 Jan 2002 13:57
I took the liberty to look up in the 2000 Parts # & Diagrams manual that Red Elk let us copy a while back, Thanks Red Elk . Anyways, There are different rod and main bushing/ bearings for this engine as Justoyz mention as follows:
Mains:
Ref.#92028, part # 92028-1931 are for #1 & #5 main ( Blue)
Ref. # 92028c, part# 92028-1931 are for #2 & #4 mains (blue)
Ref. # 92028I, part # 92028-1983 are for # 3 main (blue)
Rod bushings/ bearing:
Ref.# 92028F, part # 92028-1941 8 total(blue)
Blue is the standard bearing followed by black and brown. Don't have any specs on these different bearings unless someone can look it up in their service manual  Thought I had a printed manual? (ZX12 Girl) I'm waiting:o to look this info up! Also, I believe it was Zxtra that mention the 02 12's have a deeper sump/oil pump? Why is this an issue if this is the case? :
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justoyz2
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posted January 15, 2002 01:57 PM
It's an oil starvation problem, but it is steming from the available space between the bearings/crank. I am not sure of the exact thickness, but I have been running 20/50 and I haven't had a problem. I didn't break mine in the way they said. The only reason I didn't was because I already had 2000 miles on my bike in about a month. So, by the time they sent the letter/new book I was already past that 3000 mile break in period. Kawi knows that the bearing they used in the 1st batch of bikes were too close. That's the reason for the extended breakin period. This prolonged break in period is unheard of in any vehicle manufactor. Think about that when you decide to purchase your next bike.
The dealership is your first step in getting any warranty work done. Take your bike were you know you will be taken care of, this might not be the purchase place, or the place you spend all of your money. Just a few words of Wisdom
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kzz1
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posted January 15, 2002 01:59 PM
Edited By: kzz1 on 15 Jan 2002 14:00
You recieved a letter from Kawasaki about this problem???? We didn't:o Did anyone recieve a letter????
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kzz1
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posted January 15, 2002 02:20 PM
Edited By: kzz1 on 15 Jan 2002 14:20
quote:
people saying once their motor was apart, there bearings looked beat up. Now, I just wonder if the replaced bearings are going to hold up better than the originals.
Did you plastigage the rods and mains when you put the engine back together???
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kzz1
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posted January 15, 2002 02:21 PM
quote:
quote:
people saying once their motor was apart, there bearings looked beat up. Now, I just wonder if the replaced bearings are going to hold up better than the originals.
Zx9R....Did you plastigage the rods and mains when you put the engine back together???
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RocketRacer
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posted January 15, 2002 09:16 PM
You sure you didn't receive the letter? I seem to remember your wife getting her ZX-12R about the same time I did - around mid-April, 2000. Several weeks after that, U.S. Kawasaki sent out letters (along with revised owner's manuals and new stickers to put on the tachometer face) informing 12R owners that the break-in period had been increased to 2,000 miles (it WAS 1,000 miles when a lot of us took delivery of our bikes). The only real difference in the "new" break-in procedure was a change to 9,000 RPM for max engine speed from 1,000 miles to 2,000 miles - that wasn't originally specified. They were kind of late - many of us already had 1,000+ miles on the bikes and were cranking the shit out of them!!
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kzz1
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posted January 15, 2002 09:24 PM
It was July of 2000 when she picked up her 12. We recieved the recall on the fuel tank and fuel gauge and book but nothing about the new break in?
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