TripodMeat
Expert Class
Posts: 125
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posted January 01, 2002 04:22 PM
Steering problem.
How would I straighten out my steering????
I was going to take a ride today, when I left the house, I noticed that my bars were about 15 degrees to the right when I was going straight.
This bike STILL has only about 1100 miles, Never
been down ( riding OR parked )
Help would be good....
  
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harryzx-12
Needs a job
Posts: 3643
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posted January 01, 2002 06:08 PM
Have you ever trailered it? That could have possibly have twisted it (strapping it down).Just guessing.
____________
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways- Body thoroughly used up, totally worn out...Screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride !!!"
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TripodMeat
Expert Class
Posts: 125
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posted January 01, 2002 06:17 PM
No sir...never on a trailer, as a matter of fact,
I ride maybe 1 day in 7, my last ride was X-mas day,
without a problem. very strange.
I am GUESSING that if I loosen the 10mm ( 12MM???) allen
head, that I will be able to "eye-ball" it straight(er)
than it is, OR just go to my Kwak dealer...
Anybody???
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Bikelover
Novice Class
Posts: 64
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posted January 01, 2002 07:09 PM
Better check your rear axle quick!
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redelk
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
Posts: 3212
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posted January 01, 2002 07:39 PM
STOP! THIS COULD BE SERIOUS!
I'm not kidding around, either!
The handlebars really can't "tweak" themselves 15 degrees. There are other factors involved here.
1. The handlebars are part of a single forged piece that makes up the top triple clamp.
2. Because of the rigid nature of the outer fork tubes, anything that affects the top triple clamp will also have some kind of an effect on the lower triple clamp.
In other words, unless the upper most part of the forks were SEVERELY bent, the lower triple clamp will always be aligned with the upper clamp. There is no way the upper triple clamp could be 15 degrees off in relationship to the lower clamp.
The fact that the fork tubes go through both the lower and the upper clamps, forces them to be aligned almost, if not exactly, together.
3. The chrome allen nut is there basically for cosmetic purposes. It's does hold the upper clamp in place, but it is the two nuts underneath the upper triple clamp that basically hold the steering stem assembly in place.
4. What concerns me the most is that the the steering stem is a one piece assembly with the lower triple clamp. With this being the case, it makes the second item I mentioned even more true.
5. I would think that there would have to be some other more SERIOUS problem with the steering system. There is a remote possibility that the front axle has become loose enough to allow the wheel to be slightly "cocked" in relationship to the fork tube.
I doubt that this would be the problem though. Other unusual handling problems would also occur, if this was the problem. Also, if it could even happen, I doubt if it would cause you handlebars to be as off as they are.
6. It could be a wide varity of things that could have caused this and I don't have a clue on what it could actually be. If it is not some that is obvious to the untrained eye (i.e. one fork tube being an inch higher then the other or major damage to the handlebar end due to a "dump"), I'd strongly suggest you take it to your dealer.
All of the steering assembly nuts have a VERY LOW torque spec when tightening them. I believe that there are a few that are measured in INCH/ pounds instead of foot/pounds. Too much or too little could result in premature wear of the bearings or their races. Don't attempt any steering adjustments without FIRST referring to the SERVICE manual.
If you do have one, closely examine the topics that cover the front suspension and steering. Compare the photos in the service manual (as crappy as they are) with your bike and see if there are any aspects that seem out of whack. If there is no obvious differences between the pictures and descriptions in the manual and your bike, I'm afraid that your bike is bound for the dealer.
No matter what you choose to do, thake it to the dealer, try to fix it yourself or just "ignore it" (which I HOPE you do not choose to do), I am very interested on what could have caused your handlebars to be so far off in relationship to the front tire. I personally can't imagine anything besides maybe a serious dump that tweaked the bars themselves, could cause such a problem.
DISCLAIMER!
I am by NO MEANS any kind of mechanic or engineer. My thoughts on this are just "thoughts" and in no way suggest that these are the ONLY possible causes of your problem. Still a 15 degree deviation is quite a large amount for just being something "out of adjustment".
___________________________________________________________
One thing I do know for ABSOLUTELY sure... Harry, you are to get NO WHERE NEAR my bike with ANY KIND of tool! Tie down straps... Sheez!
____________
There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21896
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posted January 01, 2002 07:50 PM
you took the werds right out of my mouth sherman.... there is someting more afoot here....
you need to be more specific in the prob you are having... give some more details about your bike as well... was it purchased new etc etc... some history would help....
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ZXtra
Expert Class
Posts: 490
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posted January 01, 2002 09:19 PM
15 degrees???
TripodMeat...15 degrees is alot! So much so that you could find this problem with a tape measure. We're looking for inches here, not fractions of an inch.
Pick a spot in the center of the tread on the front tire. Measure from that spot to both the left and right handlebars. They should be the same. If they are the same, your problem lies in the rear(axle/swingarm).
Go to the rear and just eyeball the rear wheel. Is it straight and centered in the swingarm? Is the swingarm straight and centered in the bike?
IMPORTANT!!! Get back to us and we'll go on from there.-ZXtra
____________
The sixth sick sheik's sixth sheep's sick!
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Scooter
Zone Head
Posts: 899
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posted January 01, 2002 11:57 PM
Just a thought, but the swing arm bushing could be toast on one side, thus throwing the entire swingarm alignment off while the rear wheel alignment marks appear ok.
____________
"Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional."
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TripodMeat
Expert Class
Posts: 125
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posted January 02, 2002 03:52 AM
Thank you people, after work today, I'll get into a SERIOUS look at this. until then , my 12 is out of
commission !
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TripodMeat
Expert Class
Posts: 125
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posted January 03, 2002 05:01 PM
I think I got it.....
On an educated guess, I got in front of the bike,
put the front tire between my knees, grabbed the bars,
and turned them in OPPOSITE directions...
SURE ENOUGH ( SHO'NUF ?? ) I heard a loud "click",
and everything strightened back out (mostly)
I then got out my new ramp, loaded up and went to my dealer. The service writer/tech informed me,
that in his 35+ years of working on bikes, this is NOT
an uncommon thing, and that is how they would have done it at the dealership. ( He then proceeded to do it again )
to get it almost perfectly straight.
They said this could have happened just by hitting a curbwhile parking or someone kicking the tire, ( YES, this is a Kawasaki dealer...) I was also informed that this is NOT a warranty item, since it is considered an "adjustment"
( $69.00 )
The cause: ( please make your jokes here )
My wife was backing our golf-cart ( GEM car ),
and JUST clipped the front fender, enough to remove a speck of paint ( dime-sized ), but apparently, this turned the wheel enough to do this.
I do not mean to "cry" wolf on this forum,
as I have learned alot of useful Info ,tech tips,
about the ZX12 in general.
Thanks again,
Sean
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redelk
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
Posts: 3212
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posted January 03, 2002 06:05 PM
Uhhhhh... huh?
A loud "click"? Not an "uncommon problem"? ...strightened back out (mostly)? "MOSTLY"?
Huh?
What "clicked"? What exactly was this "common problem"?
I'm NOT slighting you or your dealer, but I've never heard of such a minor impact causing such a major problem AND being corrected in such an "non-technical" manner. What concerns me even more is that what is to keep something like this from happening while one was riding? If it was such a small impact, wouldn't something like a sudden "jerk" from a pothole or uneven pavement cause a similar problem?
I'm not trying to create doubt here, but in my ignorance, I've never heard of such. Could you please tell me EXACTLY what was "out of adjustment" and what was the part that "clicked" by holding the front wheel and turning the bars? I remember doing that with my old "stingray" bicycles all the time, but I think there's a little difference between my bicycle's steering system and that of my 12R.
Again, I'm not dissin' ya in any way, form or fashion. It just sound a tad strange to me.
____________
There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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TripodMeat
Expert Class
Posts: 125
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posted January 03, 2002 07:30 PM
No offense taken, Redelk... I was hoping to get some good reaction to that. I dont by any means consider myself
a "builder", but I am also not some RUB with some $$$ for a bike... I AM going to another KAW dealer tomorrow.
I was NOT in the mood to have some guy tell me he that
"he was fixin' bikes while I was shittin' green"...
after REPEATED questioning, he stood by what he said.
I am on a sportbike forum here in PHX, and have asked a 12
owner if he had heard of this before, and of course, he hasn't....
( He told me that the chrome allen on top of the
steering head bearing was torqued at 80ft/lbs )
I also asked that if such a small impact could do that,
what about some HARD cornering, or ( as you pointed out )
dips in the road, rolled curb, etc...
If this does not get resolved by tomorrow, Kawasaki is my next step.
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redelk
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
Posts: 3212
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posted January 03, 2002 07:46 PM
Cool...
I too, take offense when someone tells me something unusual and "backs it up" by saying... "he was fixin' bikes while I was shittin' green".
Needless to say, I don't have my service manual handy, but when I get home (in another hour or two), I'll look up the specs on all the nuts relating to the steering system. The other guy could very well be right when it comes to the chrome allen nut. I do know that the retaining and lock nuts below the top triple clamp are much lower then that.
All the same, I won't even trust myself on any of that until I ACTUALLY look at what the service manual calls for. I post it then. Good luck.
____________
There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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TripodMeat
Expert Class
Posts: 125
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posted January 03, 2002 07:53 PM
I'll be looking , I'll check back before I go to work...
Thanks!!
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redelk
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
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posted January 03, 2002 09:48 PM
Okay, here we go....
Steering Section
Page 13-2 Exploded View
Stem Head Nut (the chrome allen nut) - 36 ft/lb
Stem Locknut - 88 INCH/lbs (7.34 ft/lb)
Stem Nut - 14.5 ft/lb
Handlebar Bolt (on the inside end) - 25 ft/lb
Fork Pinch Bolts (upper and lower) - 14.5 ft/lb
I was thinkin' 80 ft/lb was kinda high. Anyway, these be da numbers straight from KHI service manual (PN 99924-1253-01 for '00 A1 & '01 A2 models).
Hope this helps. BTW, NEVER trust that guy on the other forum (or Harry, either) for mechanical advice. I just can't make up my mind which one is worse.
____________
There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21896
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posted January 03, 2002 10:18 PM
Sorry man,,, but this just doesnt sound right.....
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ZXtra
Expert Class
Posts: 490
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posted January 03, 2002 11:29 PM
No Way!!!
TripodMeat...There is NO WAY that you should be able to adjust the front wheel by putting it between your legs and yanking on the bars. The front wheel is held straight by the fork tubes. The fork tubes are held in line by the upper and lower triple clamps and by clamping on the front axle. These components are all precision fit parts that are bolted together to form a solid assembly.
Check your triple clamps for looseness and possible cracks or breakage. Also check bottom of fork tubes where the front axle is clamped for looseness or damage.
That "mechanic" is a DORK. Stay away from him!-ZXtra
____________
The sixth sick sheik's sixth sheep's sick!
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TripodMeat
Expert Class
Posts: 125
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posted January 04, 2002 03:08 PM
Agreed....a COMPLETE DORK...
the mechanic ( at the KAW/SUZ/YAM/HON dealer ) IS the one who said 80ft/lbs!!! I am going to do an "end around"
on him ( KAWASAKI )
Another dealer is going to go over the problem,
and correct them, he didn't mention anything about
kicking the tire straight!!
Mr. Redelk, thanks again. That P/N for the manual is what I need for my "A2"
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redelk
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
Posts: 3212
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posted January 04, 2002 04:14 PM
Part Number CORRECTION!
99924-1253-03 is probably the most current and correct part number.
99924-1253-01 is the original part number for the first 12R service manual and deals with just the A1 model. The reason I said it also applies to the A2 model is that there are really no differences between the two, with maybe the exception of the ECU mapping. I might be wrong on the differences, but I doubt it. "Mechanically", I'm sure the two models are basically identical.
The "03" version probably just has all the adendums in it. Under the BuyKawasaki website, they DO NOT list any part number for a service manual for the A2. The "03" number came from a listing for the A1 model. As with any information obtained from the net, it's always best to confirm the part number with your dealer.
I'm sure that it will start off with "99924-125X-XX". Odds are, it's probably 99924-1253-04 or something close to that. At a MSRP of about $50, PLEASE confirm the number before ordering it. I'd hate to steer (no pun intended... okay, I meant to do it!) you wrong on this.
____________
There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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TripodMeat
Expert Class
Posts: 125
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posted January 04, 2002 06:53 PM
Thanks for the info, that is definitely my next purchase, if my K&N air filter is $59, I think the manual
is well worth $50 or so... This has really opened my eyes to some things about the bike ( I read the Owners manual front to back ) I think I will enjoy it even more.
Redelk: Thanx for not giving me a bum "steer"...
( I had to say that!! )
I still intend on reaming the dealership, on such
a candy-ass ,bullshit response to a REAL problem.
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NINJA12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted January 05, 2002 06:36 AM
I have a friend who rebuilds wrecks, and i HAVE seen
it done just like this before. But he loosen the bolts
on the forks first. I didn't believe it the first time i
saw it either. Still doesn't compute in my mind but i have
seen it.
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EastBayDave
Needs a job
Posts: 2245
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posted January 05, 2002 07:23 AM
quote:
TripodMeat...There is NO WAY that you should be able to adjust the front wheel by putting it between your legs and yanking on the bars. The front wheel is held straight by the fork tubes. The fork tubes are held in line by the upper and lower triple clamps and by clamping on the front axle. These components are all precision fit parts that are bolted together to form a solid assembly.
Check your triple clamps for looseness and possible cracks or breakage. Also check bottom of fork tubes where the front axle is clamped for looseness or damage.
That "mechanic" is a DORK. Stay away from him!-ZXtra
Yep, there is something wrong here. I'd say the triple clamp is not tight on steering stem is my first guess. Also remember what someone said about checking the bottom of the forks; like Redelk says there was a manual addendum to the front axle spacer placement during wheel install. Check that too.
The bike goes too fast to have steering issues. Check it out B4 you ride!  :
I also agree with the mentioned DORK mechanic.
____________
Enjoy the ride!
02' ZRX1200
00' ZX12R sold
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harryzx-12
Needs a job
Posts: 3643
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posted January 05, 2002 07:50 AM
By the way there RedElk AKA redonheadlikedickondog
That guess I made was based on something GMD computrack in atlanta told me.This is for you with love Red 
Quote by RedElk- founder of the Arkansas Royal Root Rangers!
Hope this helps. BTW, NEVER trust that guy on the other forum (or Harry, either) for mechanical advice. I just can't make up my mind which one is worse.
And hey red, I was ridin bikes and fixing them when you were swimming around in your daddys nutsack  LOL
____________
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways- Body thoroughly used up, totally worn out...Screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride !!!"
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harryzx-12
Needs a job
Posts: 3643
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posted January 05, 2002 07:53 AM
TripodMeat
Hope you got your problem sorted out.The service manual cost me $35. from the dealer. Ron Ayers should be even cheaper.
____________
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways- Body thoroughly used up, totally worn out...Screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride !!!"
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TripodMeat
Expert Class
Posts: 125
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posted January 05, 2002 10:37 AM
$35..cool....
I hate to "squeal like a stuck pig", on the guy
but the afforementioned DORK/mechanic does not
need to be dealing with current sportbikes.
Maybe the "bang it against a curb" shit worked
on his '74 CB350 or something....
Onward....
Thanx, you are a knowledgeable group.
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