Personal rules on the road after a crash... @ ZX6R ZONE.com

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princesskiwi

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posted May 15, 2007 06:43 AM

Edited By: princesskiwi on 15 May 2007 07:44

Poll Question:
Personal rules on the road after a crash...

Not that I hope it happens to anyone out there...
But if your buddy crashes - do you make him/her get checked out?

Who decides?
The people who she/he is riding should decide if the person who crashed should get checked out - or the person who crashed, who may be in shock?

If you don't make a Buddy who has crashed get checked out - are you negligent if something happens to him in the next 48 hours as a result of his injuries?

Are you qualified to look at someone and determine if they have internal injuries and decide if they are OK?
Is it OK to bully someone into going to get checked out if they are saying they don't want to?

What would you do?
What have you done?

Poll Results:

7 votes (54%)
The person who crashed decides if they need medical attention

6 votes (46%)
The people who they are riding with should decide

princesskiwi

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posted May 15, 2007 06:46 AM

Hey, this is a topic for serious discussion ONLY - no posting of crash scenes or gory pictures...
Thanks...

H2 to ZX12

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posted May 15, 2007 07:15 AM

Edited By: H2 to ZX12 on 15 May 2007 08:21

PK this is dicussed at length in a Red Cross first aid/first responder Cpr course, which presumably was tailored by law suit precedent in the US. What they tought me in '93 was that if the person was unconscious then you did not need thier consent to perform first aid. Paramedics are going to act on this as well. If the person is conscious then it is advisable to ask for thier permission to help them. And if they say no, you'd better honor thier request. Now if the person says yes and you help them chances are that if things don't go well for them, medically speaking, they won't be able to sucessfully sue you. But if you go against thier wishes and it goes badly, then you're likely to lose a court case.

I know this isn't exactly what you were asking but even if the people that you are trying to help are your friends, you have no right to force them to do anythng if they are conscious and refusing treatment. Paramedics will leave them right on the ground if they refuse treatment. They probably will have them sign a wavier if possible but they will be left alone if that is thier wish.

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ridgeracer

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posted May 15, 2007 07:27 AM

It is up to the person who crashed to decide. But that doesn't mean you can't try to persuade them to seek help.

I think a lot of guys don't mind the EMTs as much as the cops that come with them.

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Lucky Lo

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posted May 15, 2007 07:31 AM

I really think it depends on the circumstances... the extent of the crash/injuries and experience of the rider.
If the people I know well and ride with often" insisted" on my having medical attention I would trust there judjudment.
Unless someone was really "out of it" and in obvious shock I probably would only offer my advice (for whatever that's worth)

I've been in the other situation and basically had to sit on them... to help arrived.

NinjaNick

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posted May 15, 2007 07:52 AM

I voted that the person that crashes decides. But if you crash HARD it would be ignorant not to get yourself checked out when you get home.

I watched a co-worker buddy of mine go down around a turn and smack his helmet HARD on the ground. He didn't go anywhere, just said he was sore for a few weeks. I thought that was stupid of him. But it's been a year and he's fine; just was lucky.

worm~hole

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posted May 15, 2007 08:19 AM

severely injured, unconscious, momentary lost of consciousness, severely damaged/cracked helmet, screaming in pain=seek medical attention

sprained, bruised, no loss of consciousness, up on adrenaline=up to the rider

solo crash hard on HWY36, bruise ribs, strain groin/inner thigh muscles, embarrassed=Midol and beer....then ice-cream

H2 to ZX12

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posted May 15, 2007 08:31 AM

quote:

I've been in the other situation and basically had to sit on them... to help arrived.

I saw paramedics holding a crashed rider down who had slid hard wearing t-shirt and shorts. he had extensive road rash and was screaming at the top of his lungs and was trying to get up. painful to watch even as I was riding by

princesskiwi

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posted May 15, 2007 10:45 AM

I read this story about a girl in Bali who was drinking + dancing on a table - she fell off the table and kept partying....
She didn't break any bones.
Later that night, sleeping on the beach - she passed away in her sleep from internal injuries.
It is examples like this - of little mishaps that caused serious injuries that may have been fixable that stick in my head.

How do you let your buddy walk away from a crash?
Is it fair to make a rule that when riding in a group that if you crash and you wreck your bike - so that it is no longer ride able - you have to go get checked out?

If your Buddy has internal injuries after a crash and he won't get checked out - is it his right to refuse medical attention - or as a friend, can you MAKE him get checked out?

H2 to ZX12

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posted May 15, 2007 11:59 AM

quote:
I read this story about a girl in Bali who was drinking + dancing on a table - she fell off the table and kept partying....
She didn't break any bones.
Later that night, sleeping on the beach - she passed away in her sleep from internal injuries.
It is examples like this - of little mishaps that caused serious injuries that may have been fixable that stick in my head.

How do you let your buddy walk away from a crash?
Is it fair to make a rule that when riding in a group that if you crash and you wreck your bike - so that it is no longer ride able - you have to go get checked out?

If your Buddy has internal injuries after a crash and he won't get checked out - is it his right to refuse medical attention - or as a friend, can you MAKE him get checked out?

PK unfortunately people have "the right to be wrong" about thier health care unless a judge says otherwise presumably because they may be no longer competent. end of story

worm~hole

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posted May 15, 2007 12:00 PM

...you cannot MAKE anybody get themselves checked out...you can only encourage him/her to go...I think the only way you could be held liable is if you're in the medical profession ie. doctor, paramedic, etc. and you tell him/her that in your roadside opinion he's/she's okay and go ride after his/her horrific crash....and if that person later dies from undiagnosed internal injuries that could be directly attributed to the crash after NOT seeking medical attention based on your roadside opinion, then you've set yourself up, as a medical expert, for major liability...and it would suck to be you...make sense?

blueford

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posted May 15, 2007 12:51 PM

quote:
I read this story about a girl in Bali who was drinking + dancing on a table - she fell off the table and kept partying....
She didn't break any bones.
Later that night, sleeping on the beach - she passed away in her sleep from internal injuries.
It is examples like this - of little mishaps that caused serious injuries that may have been fixable that stick in my head.

How do you let your buddy walk away from a crash?
Is it fair to make a rule that when riding in a group that if you crash and you wreck your bike - so that it is no longer ride able - you have to go get checked out?

If your Buddy has internal injuries after a crash and he won't get checked out - is it his right to refuse medical attention - or as a friend, can you MAKE him get checked out?

PK sweetie, this is classic dissociation denial.

I.e., Fish rides bikes, you love Fish, you have anxiety about Fish riding, but you don't speak to the danger of him riding bikes, but only to the remote possibly of hidden injuries after a crash killing him.

Its like, a Marine's who is in Iraq and his mother excessively worries about him drinking the water or sleeping with an Iraqi girl and catching STDs.

Riding a bike is like 100 on the risk scale and this is maybe a 2!

princesskiwi

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posted May 15, 2007 02:02 PM

Edited By: princesskiwi on 15 May 2007 15:13

blueford...

Hmmm... it's more like this - group riding season is coming around (for me) and I wanted to know if anyone has had this conversation with people that they ride with.

And what type of guidelines other riders go by.

If I was riding with a new bunch of people I didn't know too well and one of them crashed and I thought that they should get checked out and they didn't - I would break off from the group and go ride on my own.

What would you do?

blueford

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posted May 15, 2007 02:38 PM

Oh okay, that's a relief, I thought Fish was possibly walking brain-damaged.

If anyone can walk, no broken bones and can answer some simple questions, like what's the capital of Lithuania, they're good to go!

worm~hole

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posted May 15, 2007 03:25 PM

....Vilnius...let's go ride...heh heh heh...

H2 to ZX12

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posted May 15, 2007 04:49 PM

Edited By: H2 to ZX12 on 15 May 2007 19:19

quote:
blueford...

Hmmm... it's more like this - group riding season is coming around (for me) and I wanted to know if anyone has had this conversation with people that they ride with.

And what type of guidelines other riders go by.

If I was riding with a new bunch of people I didn't know too well and one of them crashed and I thought that they should get checked out and they didn't - I would break off from the group and go ride on my own.

What would you do?