K Bryant
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posted February 23, 2009 08:08 PM
 Edited By: K Bryant on 25 Feb 2009 04:44
Area P Full Exhaust
Since there are several threads of interest on this system, let's try to condense them into one directly from Area P. We greatly appreciate all the interest. Here is the sum of our results and data along with it. All info, and any additions, will be up on our website soon.
It is important to note that this system is designed specifically for the C-14, with it's power characteristics & convenience features. I have no idea how it would work and/or fit on a ZX14.
The system is a 4-2-1 design made from 304 series stainless steel with large tube tapered headpipes, true merge collectors, cnc billet stainless steel collars and cnc billet aluminum stepped flanges. It features spring mount retention, with stainless steel T-bolt clamps on the mid-pipe and muffler inlet spigots. It retains oil filter and drain plug access. It has an integrated centerstand stop. The support bracket on the mid-pipe bolts to the OEM rubber mount. The production system will be TIG welded. The production system should weigh around 11lbs for a weight savings of around 21 - 22 lbs. The pieced together final prototype is shown in the photos below. The production pipe will of course have more "one-piece" mandral bent sections (less welds).
Power - Graph noted below. The test bike had 890 miles on it. The baseline numbers correlate with (7) other C14 models we have had that range from 125 - 131 hp baseline. As always, all our numbers are SAE (for those wanting to inflate the numbers to STD, simply add about 4%). Gain was +19 hp, +7 tq. Power increase begins from the very bottom and continues to the soft limiter of 9900 rpm. It is important to note that at the soft limiter, the power improvement over the OEM system is almost +29 hp, +15 tq. The dyno only tells part of the facts. When riding, it is simply a completely different animal from idle to redline. It also runs significantly cooler and the amount of resdidual heat feels much lower. This was with a PC3, mapped, flies in, stock filter. We could not do a flies out mod, as we are limited to what can be done when we borrow bikes from the OEMs. To address this, Jamie at Fuelmoto will receive one of our first production systems to do a Flies out and aftermarket filter map. In discussions with him and what his bikes baseline at on his Dyno (slightly higher than ours), we may very well see close to 160 hp numbers with a custom tune, flies out, aftermarket filter. We have seen excellent results from Fuelmoto with our Slip-On on both a flies in/flies out map and have the utmost confidence that Jamie will further increase the power gains with our full exhaust system. If you have previously purchased a PC3 from him, these maps will be available to you. If you would like to take advantage of any "auto-tune" features on the market, we can install an optional O2 sensor in your specified position.
Sound - using our standard 20"/45 degree static test - 86 dbA @ idle - 95 dbA @ 3000 rpm -99 dbA @ 5000 rpm. It is a very deep, low frequency exhaust tone. Not abusive by any means in my opinion (we have a sound byte available with both cruising and to the soft limiter). The sound is of course slightly elevated as compared to our ultra quiet Slip-On. This is simply factual due to the larger and thinner wall primary tubes, merge collectors, lack of cats, and of course slightly larger core diameter. We terminated the muffler slightly under the bag to help deflect and disrupt the sound pattern, as well as use our standard exit tip to point down and away . We used a very high percentage perf core and packed exclusively with Silent Sport Premium from Germany (as usual)
We are scheduling production systems to be available late March, early April. Intro pricing will be $795 with our stainless steel muffler. $845 with our carbon fiber muffler. Both will feature brushed satin finish components. Thank you again for your interest in this system. It was a very focused project and the results are stunning.
Dyno Graph
Prototype - Luggage On
Prototype - Luggage Off
   
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DB
Pro
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posted February 23, 2009 09:56 PM
Kerry, great job as usual!!! I have the first silly/naive question. What is the "integrated centerstand stop"?
____________
Dan
04 ZX10r (Track only)
08 Concours14
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TnC14
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posted February 24, 2009 01:11 AM
I want in line for a carbon can version, with an O2 bung for Autotune down the road.
If I purchase a PC-V from Jamie, can I assume maps for the PC-III will work on the -V also?
____________
'09 Metallic Black Concours14 ABS.
PC-V Power Commander.
Power Commander Auto-Tune Kit.
Muzzy's stepped tube header - Dual carbon oval cans.
Muzzy's lowering links.
BMC-Race air filter.
Flies out.
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worm~hole
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posted February 24, 2009 06:24 AM
...I'm slightly off-topic here, but what are the chances of an 4-2 AreaP with left-side hanger for the C14 and all of the access features of the 4-2-1?
____________
“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
who would do us harm.”
-George Orwell
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K Bryant
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posted February 24, 2009 08:53 AM
quote:
Kerry, great job as usual!!! I have the first silly/naive question. What is the "integrated centerstand stop"?
Thank you. It simply means that it has a centerstand bracket that is welded to the mid-pipe, similar to the OEM version. 
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K Bryant
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posted February 24, 2009 09:11 AM
quote:
I want in line for a carbon can version, with an O2 bung for Autotune down the road.
If I purchase a PC-V from Jamie, can I assume maps for the PC-III will work on the -V also?
I would not assume the maps would "work" between the PC3 & 5. There may be other values/columns that woud need data fillled in. I haven't gotten one yet to R&D. Jamie has had them for awhile for his H-D line. So he would know more. The PC5 has lots of bells & whistles. The auto-tune feature is of course very cool. Other than that, for the reasonably average street rider, not sure if the upgrade (from PC3) is worth it. Time will tell....
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K Bryant
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posted February 24, 2009 09:15 AM
quote:
...I'm slightly off-topic here, but what are the chances of an 4-2 AreaP with left-side hanger for the C14 and all of the access features of the 4-2-1?
Wormie - There is no chance. Sorry.....
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worm~hole
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posted February 24, 2009 02:28 PM
quote:
quote:
...I'm slightly off-topic here, but what are the chances of an 4-2 AreaP with left-side hanger for the C14 and all of the access features of the 4-2-1?
Wormie - There is no chance. Sorry.....
...thanks for the reply, Kerry...is it no chance at all or no chance right now?...if its no chance at all, can you divulge why there's no chance?...is it because of the physical limitations of the underside that'll compromise accessibility, performance, and aesthetics?....or is it the limited market?....or is it the prohibited expense?...or????
...I respectfully ask these questions because there are owners and potential owners out there who desire the aesthetics of a 4-2 for the C14...the lines of the bike beg for it imho...the bike has enough stock hp/tq for some folks like me....I'd be happy with the weight-savings alone of a properly desined aftermarket 4-2...I wished Kawasaki had designed it from the begining to be a 4-2...then I'd just buy your sexy slip-ons...
...that being said, I'm glad there are folks like you and your son who are willing to make and actually produce a better performing, lighter weight, and less expensive exhaust system for the the C14 than the factory's heavier and expensive exhaust system  ...
____________
“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
who would do us harm.”
-George Orwell
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K Bryant
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posted February 24, 2009 04:33 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
...I'm slightly off-topic here, but what are the chances of an 4-2 AreaP with left-side hanger for the C14 and all of the access features of the 4-2-1?
Wormie - There is no chance. Sorry.....
...thanks for the reply, Kerry...is it no chance at all or no chance right now?...if its no chance at all, can you divulge why there's no chance?...is it because of the physical limitations of the underside that'll compromise accessibility, performance, and aesthetics?....or is it the limited market?....or is it the prohibited expense?...or????
...I respectfully ask these questions because there are owners and potential owners out there who desire the aesthetics of a 4-2 for the C14...the lines of the bike beg for it imho...the bike has enough stock hp/tq for some folks like me....I'd be happy with the weight-savings alone of a properly desined aftermarket 4-2...I wished Kawasaki had designed it from the begining to be a 4-2...then I'd just buy your sexy slip-ons...
...that being said, I'm glad there are folks like you and your son who are willing to make and actually produce a better performing, lighter weight, and less expensive exhaust system for the the C14 than the factory's heavier and expensive exhaust system ...
Well if it's for you, I could always do a "one-off"....  And hey, thank you for the comments.
Before answering, please note - I'm not comparing our system to Muzzy's 4-2. I have nothing but the utmost respect for Rob and have known him since the stone-age. I believe he designed a very well thought out, great looking product for the crowd that desires a dual muffler system. And there are plenty of you out there.
Anyway, reason(s) being; performance, weight, sound, price. "Aesthetics" will always be in the eye of the beholder. Performance - a 4-2 simply will not put out the power and/or overall powerband of a properly designed, merge collector 4-2-1. Although a 4-2-1-2 may work decent, but still not as good. And then you got to get all that mess to fit the bike.... It can be more difficult to map correctly because the left side collector/mid-pipe area is design compromised to get around the drive housing, side stand, and/or centerstand arm. Obviously it will weigh significantly more as well as potentially putting out more heat. The exhaust tone will of course be "different", mostly not as "smooth" sounding.
The R&D goal of this project was performance, weight savings, convenience feature(s) retention, and the highest quality at an affordable price point. That's what we're all about. And that's what you will get from Area P
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oncourse
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posted February 24, 2009 04:44 PM
Kerry great news! Looks sweet and if you ever rode one with the flies out, that will surely make a huge difference down low! I like the fact that you did what the stock exhaust could not, and put High performance in it!
What I really want is the system with a ti muffler, also, and you should consider this, is have the o2 bung in the factory gtr1400 position with a plug in it for those who want to try the pc5. I know it would add to the cost, but there are going to be a lot of people who want it, not only that, but gtr owners and future c-14 owners might need it.
Lastly, If you ever get a stock zx-14 to play with you never know what it will do, and if it beats the muzzy system more glory for you guys!
Reguards,
Rob
____________
True intellegence is not measured by your degrees.
04 klr 250 Lots of mods and 70 MPG!!
08 Connie 2 bros. Carbon. Helibars. Flies out, PC3!!!
2003 kx 500 SOLD
2004 KX 500 In service now, whata BEAST!
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oncourse
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posted February 24, 2009 04:47 PM
Oh, lastly they did not make an 08 in maroon... Looks like an '09
Rob
____________
True intellegence is not measured by your degrees.
04 klr 250 Lots of mods and 70 MPG!!
08 Connie 2 bros. Carbon. Helibars. Flies out, PC3!!!
2003 kx 500 SOLD
2004 KX 500 In service now, whata BEAST!
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K Bryant
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posted February 24, 2009 07:52 PM
Edited By: K Bryant on 25 Feb 2009 04:25
oncourse - there is no O2 Bung/sensor on the OEM exhaust system. But as indicated in the release above, we did consider it and will gladly install one in the position of the customer's choice should they desire it for an "auto-tune" enviornment. No plans for a Ti muffler option at this time. Stainless Steel or Carbon Fiber only.
As for the ZX14, well, we already know what we can do with it. We prototyped and tested several systems in both conventional and sidewinder versions last year. The performance increase is stunning. We're deciding if we want to go into production with them.
Thatz interesting to note on the color. Our test bike had a production date of 06/08, so my "assumption" was that it was an '08 model. Perhaps it was an "early '09".
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smbear
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posted February 24, 2009 08:27 PM
yep its a 09
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worm~hole
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posted February 24, 2009 09:47 PM
...thank you for the comprehensive explanation, Kerry...I thought as much, but wanted to hear it directly from a pro who knows what he's talking about ...
...btw, I agree...Muzzy products rock too...I like the full ss/Ti Muzzy on my 12R...kudos for you for recognizing the accomplishments of your formidable "competition"...having spent some time in the performance aftermarket years ago where we were all competing for that customer's discretionary dollar and seeing how some competitors bad-mouthed each other's products, your attitude is what makes AreaP a class act to be emulated by those in the industry....and no, I'm not schmoozing for any "one-offs"...I don't have the C14 anyway ...I'm just calling it like it is for the stragglers who don't know AreaP yet...
____________
“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
who would do us harm.”
-George Orwell
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oncourse
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posted February 25, 2009 03:13 AM
Kerry,
The gtr1400 (european) has a factory o2 sensor, that is why I thought that location would be best as it was factory designed for clearance etc... I guess I will go cf then. Can't wait 'till they do the flies out runs!
Rob
____________
True intellegence is not measured by your degrees.
04 klr 250 Lots of mods and 70 MPG!!
08 Connie 2 bros. Carbon. Helibars. Flies out, PC3!!!
2003 kx 500 SOLD
2004 KX 500 In service now, whata BEAST!
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K Bryant
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posted February 25, 2009 08:48 AM
Rob, the FI Euro versions (all models) do have O2 bung/sensors. We actually install them for those customers on other models when they need them.
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ninjawarrior12
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posted February 25, 2009 01:58 PM
Kerry,
Since I already have your CF slip-on pipe and muffler, is it possible to use the slip on with just your new Header Pipe? I have it on the 07 ZX-14 Header now with Cat out, I saw a significant gain in power over the stock header with Cat in.
If so, what would be the price for the AreaP Header only?
Is your new CF mufller that much better in performance delivery over the AreaP Slip-on?
Thanks,
Ninjawarrior
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K Bryant
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posted February 25, 2009 03:55 PM
Ninjawarrior - No, the Slip-On muffler will not fit or work with the new full system. They are completely different internally and externally, other than the overall muffler length.
The new muffler is specifically designed for the flow dynamic of the full system.
It's really not a fair comparison of the Slip-On muffler to the Full System muffler. They are both designed for a specific performance goal.
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2000redrocket
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posted February 25, 2009 07:06 PM
how does it run just the pipe no tuneing? is it ok or way off? not sure i can or will spring for both in one shot (pipe and tuner) i still hope someone will hack the mitsu ecu soon.
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K Bryant
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posted February 25, 2009 10:46 PM
Edited By: K Bryant on 26 Feb 2009 06:49
quote:
how does it run just the pipe no tuneing? is it ok or way off? not sure i can or will spring for both in one shot (pipe and tuner) i still hope someone will hack the mitsu ecu soon.
Honestly, we ran a baseline map right from the start with numbers we knew would be in the ballpark. Then tuned from there. You just won't be able to take full advantage of the available power without a PC3.
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2000redrocket
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posted February 26, 2009 06:11 AM
cool. i know my muzzy messed up the way my bike ran. just hoping this does not happen again.
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oncourse
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posted February 26, 2009 04:01 PM
Kerry,
Do you know if Jamie is going to do base maps for a pc5? This will be inportant for my decision on whether to get the bung or not. I do not know if the pc3 and pc5 can share the same maps, but having gear input and an o2 sensor to fine tune should be better than a pc3 can do.
Thanks,
Rob
____________
True intellegence is not measured by your degrees.
04 klr 250 Lots of mods and 70 MPG!!
08 Connie 2 bros. Carbon. Helibars. Flies out, PC3!!!
2003 kx 500 SOLD
2004 KX 500 In service now, whata BEAST!
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TnC14
Parking Attendant
Posts: 28
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posted February 26, 2009 05:26 PM
quote:
cool. i know my muzzy messed up the way my bike ran. just hoping this does not happen again.
So, do you currently have the Muzzy 4-1-2 system?
____________
'09 Metallic Black Concours14 ABS.
PC-V Power Commander.
Power Commander Auto-Tune Kit.
Muzzy's stepped tube header - Dual carbon oval cans.
Muzzy's lowering links.
BMC-Race air filter.
Flies out.
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2000redrocket
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posted February 27, 2009 10:50 AM
i guess i should of said muzy on my 12. sorry
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K Bryant
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posted February 27, 2009 01:58 PM
quote:
Kerry,
Do you know if Jamie is going to do base maps for a pc5? This will be inportant for my decision on whether to get the bung or not. I do not know if the pc3 and pc5 can share the same maps, but having gear input and an o2 sensor to fine tune should be better than a pc3 can do.
Thanks,
Rob
Jamie will be offering both. He can also convert a PC3 map to a PCV.
Actually, he is currently looking for a C14 to do his version of mapping on our full system. Both on a PCV and PC3, flies in and flies out, aftermarket and oem filter. My understanding is that the deal he is offering is really a no brainer if someone is interested. Well worth the effort to drop your bike off and/or bring it into him.
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