ninjawarrior12
Novice Class
Posts: 39
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posted February 06, 2009 03:54 PM
GREAT NEWS FROM AreaP!!!
Just got a PM from Kerry......the 4-2-1 Header/Exhaust Project is Committed. R&D to begin on February 11, 2009, that is this coming Wednesday.
Preliminary Data to be developed/released on February 20, 2009, in two weeks!
Stay Tuned....!!
I think this is a great move forward....Muzzy is nuts to be selling a dual system for $1500.00 ..and has the corner on the market now...so he needs some competetion!
I think the 4-2-1 Concept is spot on....we don't have to modify the centerstand, the sidestand, or make an ugly left hangar bracket.....so less weight, less money...and hopefuly more horsepower.
Some are reporting about 149 with Muzzy's Dual Exhaust with mapping...I bet AreaP will match or exceed it slightly...their quality control is par excellent!
Hope the prices are not too high.....a map should come with the set-up when completed......hopefully.
Ninjawarrior
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Lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way!
  
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oncourse
Expert Class
I hate flies!!!
Posts: 467
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posted February 06, 2009 04:08 PM
You could get 150 with flies out pc3 and a slip on, so the muzzy would be a waste of money, I want 160. In Ti and carbon... Or, what I would really die for is 15 more ft. lbs of nirvana inducing torque! To have both, well I think I would have to change the underwear... I think they can more than slightly exceed it, AREA P ROCKS!!
Who knows what will happen, but it is "THE BEST NEWS" to hit this site in a long time!
Rob
____________
True intellegence is not measured by your degrees.
04 klr 250 Lots of mods and 70 MPG!!
08 Connie 2 bros. Carbon. Helibars. Flies out, PC3!!!
2003 kx 500 SOLD
2004 KX 500 In service now, whata BEAST!
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wills
Parking Attendant
Posts: 27
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posted February 14, 2009 05:14 PM
I'm waiting for the technology to flash the ecu with a complete map on the dyno. The PC is too limited and leaves too many hp on the table.
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SW
08 C-14
08 CBR 1000
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K Bryant
Needs a job
Sponsor
Posts: 2911
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posted February 14, 2009 05:37 PM
quote:
I'm waiting for the technology to flash the ecu with a complete map on the dyno. The PC is too limited and leaves too many hp on the table.
That's an interesting comment. Please explain why you think a PC with proper map is "too limited"?
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oncourse
Expert Class
I hate flies!!!
Posts: 467
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posted February 14, 2009 06:09 PM
There is one thing a dyno cannot simulate and that is drag caused by air (the uncalculated load), or maybe it can? In any gear specific condition, air, especially at speed, there is the unknown load associated with air.
The new pc5 with wideband and self mapping is a great idea (actually I thought of it over 10 yrs. ago and should have patented it), but it would simulate real world conditions....
Ps: I know it's early, but going to bed every night thinking of the c-14 full system just has me going.... Could it be made in full Ti? I don't mind paying extra if the weight savings is worth it.
Reguards,
Rob
quote:
quote:
I'm waiting for the technology to flash the ecu with a complete map on the dyno. The PC is too limited and leaves too many hp on the table.
That's an interesting comment. Please explain why you think a PC with proper map is "too limited"?
____________
True intellegence is not measured by your degrees.
04 klr 250 Lots of mods and 70 MPG!!
08 Connie 2 bros. Carbon. Helibars. Flies out, PC3!!!
2003 kx 500 SOLD
2004 KX 500 In service now, whata BEAST!
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K Bryant
Needs a job
Sponsor
Posts: 2911
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posted February 14, 2009 08:15 PM
It could be made in Ti, but I doubt it would be very appealing from a price point of $1200 - $1500 for saving an additional 4 or so pounds on a full system.
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ninjawarrior12
Novice Class
Posts: 39
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posted February 14, 2009 10:02 PM
4-2-1
I suggest you try to keep the price reasonable..and sell a ton of them....light weight, more power, mapping, CF or stainless Muffler.....built by AreaP.....like a Rolex!
Hurry!
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Lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way!
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wills
Parking Attendant
Posts: 27
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posted February 15, 2009 11:15 AM
 Edited By: wills on 15 Feb 2009 19:16
quote:
quote:
I'm waiting for the technology to flash the ecu with a complete map on the dyno. The PC is too limited and leaves too many hp on the table.
That's an interesting comment. Please explain why you think a PC with proper map is "too limited"?
Problem is it's a piggyback system. We put one on my Triumph and dyno tuned to get the right AF, but it does not offer any timing adjustment, just fuel. You're not using the full capability of the ECU (ECM) with a piggyback which just reacts to fuel signals and modifies. I wonder how many who install the PC actually check the AF to make sure it's spot on.
BTW, I want to meet ninjawarrior's avatar!
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SW
08 C-14
08 CBR 1000
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worm~hole
Needs a life
Miles to go before I sleep....
Posts: 10623
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posted February 16, 2009 08:10 AM
...if there's anyone who can get the most out of an engine with just a quality exhaust system and ECU reprogrammer while keeping the costs reasonable, it'd be kbryant, his son, and the crew from AreaP...if you knew this man's honesty, background, expertise and experience you'd understand why this is true...
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“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
who would do us harm.”
-George Orwell
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ninjawarrior12
Novice Class
Posts: 39
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posted February 16, 2009 12:45 PM
AreaP 4-2-1 Development
We are all counting on him to give us the best product for our C-14's...and put all other contenders far behind....we all want horsepower, torque, and reliable easy starting performance...so we need to be patient..and let him do his magic!
Ninjawarrior
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Lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way!
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted February 16, 2009 01:43 PM
the ecu vs pc is no compairson. the ecu is load sencing the pc is see this do that. the pc for bucking the wind vs slight up hill or harder still goes on tps and rpm.
the ecu is running on rpm and manifold vacume and or boost. (i never wondered if our bikes have ram air funney i am going have to look when i lite the coal stove in my shop tonight) that means it is fueling on load. there is a nother map (on zx12r anyway) that it blends and or switches over to that is tps and rpm. but it is when the ecu sences you really loading the engine.
the busa guys have flys and multable gear maps for when the flys open etc.
i do not want to play with a pc since i started flashing my 2000 12r ecu. i did not get this bike to be my hot rod so i can wait for someont to get the ecu opened up. if there is enough demand and push and someone that programs that has a connie it will eventually happen.
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K Bryant
Needs a job
Sponsor
Posts: 2911
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posted February 20, 2009 04:36 PM
Our initial prototyping is completed for dyno testing. We'll be on the pump and mapping Monday. We'll have numbers and more details then. Some initial info:
We have the OEM system weighing around 32 lbs. The prototype weighs around 11 lbs, for a net savings of 21 lbs. We've gone to a slightly thicker wall mid-pipe to assure reliability at the mounting bracket and centerstand area which is pretty much the stress point(s). The production system may be slightly lighter or heavier.
With the much larger diameter tapered system, merge collectors, thinner wall tubing, and larger muffler core, the sound level of course will be elevated as compared to our ultra quiet Slip-On. Depending on what the overall length of the system ends up being, we will endeavor to terminate the muffler slightly inboard of the bag. This will help "mask" some of the sound level when combined with our Turn Down Exit Tip. It also looks a little cooler, especially for those who may (ever) run without the bags installed. We will also be using a very high percentage perf core and packing them exclusively with Silent Sport Premium (as usual) from Germany for maximum attenuation of sound. Ultimately, dyno & sound testing will determine how much we can shorten the system while maintaining our performance & sound goals. We will be doing all gear sound bytes at both peak and real world rpms.
More to report Monday.
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TedG
Moderator
Posts: 8222
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posted February 20, 2009 05:34 PM
quote:
quote:
I'm waiting for the technology to flash the ecu with a complete map on the dyno. The PC is too limited and leaves too many hp on the table.
That's an interesting comment. Please explain why you think a PC with proper map is "too limited"?
I can name that tune in 4 words. Cannot control the flies.
____________
Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
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K Bryant
Needs a job
Sponsor
Posts: 2911
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posted February 20, 2009 06:01 PM
Edited By: K Bryant on 21 Feb 2009 02:02
 The quest for performance has no boundaries....
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K Bryant
Needs a job
Sponsor
Posts: 2911
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posted February 20, 2009 06:20 PM
Edited By: K Bryant on 21 Feb 2009 18:16
Ok so I couldn't very well go home for the weekend while looking at the initial protoype, installed on the bike and sitting on the dyno without a first pull. So waiting for my oldest son (designer/fabricator) to go home, because I'll never hear the end of it for running it without him here.....
How sweet and sounds so nice and smooth. Not abusive at all. Too many numbers will change with the final design and mapping on Monday - but at the soft limiter (mind you the stocker is past it's power peak of 9000 rpm at the soft limiter of 9900 rpm), we show +27 hp, +15 tq. Flies in, stock filter, oh my.
At actual peak to peak numbers, we're at +17 hp, + 6 tq.
What a nice way to go home after a long week of returning from the Indy show, being sick, and doing a preliminary dyno run with a baseline map. Have a nice weekend!
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ninjawarrior12
Novice Class
Posts: 39
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posted February 20, 2009 09:07 PM
Kerry, thanks for being true to your word on initial development of the 4-2-1 project, and having initial results on Feb. 20 as you promised!
We are eagerly awaiting final results of your project......I hope you can take the time to map the C-14 with the flies out.....even a stock air cleaner would not be too bad...as I don't think it hampers horsepower significantly. I think everyone who gets this 4-2-1 will remove the flies at the least with a Power Commander to get more punch, so having those numbers and a map to match will be a much wanted upgrade.
Removing the excess weight and increasing the horsepower will now begin to unleash the beast within! Can't wait....
Thanks again,
Ninjawarrior
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Lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way!
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TedG
Moderator
Posts: 8222
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posted February 20, 2009 09:10 PM
I would buy one in a heartbeat if it was as quiet as stock, Even if the hp gain was modest.
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Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
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ninjawarrior12
Novice Class
Posts: 39
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posted February 20, 2009 09:17 PM
Ted...
Looks like we are getting what we want....get your checkbook ready!
Ninjawarrior
____________
Lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way!
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted February 20, 2009 09:20 PM
was those numbers with stock ecu settings. how was the afr?? this is great.
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ninjawarrior12
Novice Class
Posts: 39
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posted February 20, 2009 09:28 PM
Kerry,
Would like to send you a PM but the site is having problems doing that at this time, and has had the problem earlier last week too...
I have posted your initial results on the other Concourse site.....so everyone can start saving their money for the best upgrade yet on the C-14......take your time and make it perfect as you do all your work....you have the tenancity to extract everything out of this motor you can.....it will be very interesting to see what the final numbers look like.
Now I can't sleep tonight thinking of the possibilities.....here in Central Florida we ride almost every day and night.....so being 20 minutes from Daytona Beach for Bikeweek, and with all the motorcyclists and enthusiasm in this area.....this will be a great step up on this great machine.....
Hope you are as excited as we are at the possibilities of what is really inside this wonderful smooth motor.
Ninjawarrior
____________
Lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way!
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oncourse
Expert Class
I hate flies!!!
Posts: 467
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posted February 21, 2009 04:01 AM
quote:
Ok so I couldn't very well go home for the weekend while looking at the initial protoype, installed on the bike and sitting on the dyno without a first pull. So waiting for my oldest son (designer/fabricator) to go home, because I'll never hear the end of it for running it without him here.....
How sweet and sounds so nice and smooth. Not abusive at all. Too many numbers will change with the final design and mapping on Monday - but at the soft limiter (mind you the stocker is way past it's power peak of 7500 rpm at the soft limiter of 9900 rpm), we show +27 hp, +15 tq. Flies in, stock filter, oh my.
At actual peak to peak numbers, we're at +17 hp, + 6 tq.
What a nice way to go home after a long week of returning from the Indy show, being sick, and doing a preliminary dyno run with a baseline map. Have a nice weekend!
Kerry,
I am trying to figure this out, If I am reading this correctly you are saying that at 9900 rpm stock vs. your system you made 27 more hp and 15# more torque?
Cannot wait untill you get some mapping in, and hopefully you will do the final ones with the flies out, that will be a sweet difference where most of us need and use that power most. It really woke my bike up, feels more like a big bore (the way it should be) than the stock setup, response and torque that you really can feel the difference instantly.
Hope you get better soon! I still want dibs on the first one!
Reguards,
Rob
____________
True intellegence is not measured by your degrees.
04 klr 250 Lots of mods and 70 MPG!!
08 Connie 2 bros. Carbon. Helibars. Flies out, PC3!!!
2003 kx 500 SOLD
2004 KX 500 In service now, whata BEAST!
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smbear
Parking Attendant
Posts: 5
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posted February 21, 2009 09:27 AM
they should also put in a 02 sensor bung . if the new pc5 are going to be running wide band 02 sensors this will be needed on any new exhaust system . just a thought
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K Bryant
Needs a job
Sponsor
Posts: 2911
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posted February 21, 2009 04:35 PM
Edited By: K Bryant on 22 Feb 2009 00:37
quote:
Kerry,
I am trying to figure this out, If I am reading this correctly you are saying that at 9900 rpm stock vs. your system you made 27 more hp and 15# more torque?
Yes, but it is actually more now. We went in this morning and made some further adjustments that have resulted in +29 hp, +15 tq at 9900 rpm (soft limiter). My oldest son (who was initially pissed that I ran it without him) made a really good call in one area of the design. Thatz my boy!
Something that I have had questions on (fair question), and is very important to point out - Our system design is completely purpose built for the C-14 power characteristics and conveniences. I have no idea how it would work or fit on a ZX14, and I'm really not even curious. We don't do generic system development. We stay 100% focused on that particular model to provide the customer the best performance and value.
More to come on Monday. 
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oncourse
Expert Class
I hate flies!!!
Posts: 467
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posted February 21, 2009 07:00 PM
These are some some serious numbers, I knew the c-14 had potential, but not like this. I mean almost 30 hp gain, that's a LOT on a bike!
Continue on you quest, which I gave you a littlle shove on in areap special prodjects, sometimes this is what it takes..
Thank you again areap, to do what as never been done before, I asked for it, and you are delivering it, could not as for more! The c-14 has the potentiaial, and you are tapping into it, KUDOS!
Reguards,
Rob
____________
True intellegence is not measured by your degrees.
04 klr 250 Lots of mods and 70 MPG!!
08 Connie 2 bros. Carbon. Helibars. Flies out, PC3!!!
2003 kx 500 SOLD
2004 KX 500 In service now, whata BEAST!
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The Pope
Novice Class
Posts: 44
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posted February 23, 2009 03:56 AM
Interesting, Very Interesting ........ Can hardly wait for the up-date fron Ken later today!
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The Pope
COG's NCAAD
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