TedG
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posted February 03, 2009 03:49 PM
quote:
I don't see how it could be a main bearing, a rod bearing would usually fail first (the one furthest from the oil supply), and it shouldn't effect the alternator. I am in on the crank theory, But even that is a hard one to believe, there would have to have been a serious defect in the material like a gas bubble or something, or if was not forged correctly in that area. It also probably would have broken pretty cleanly vertically, if not, I am sure it did more damage as the radial forces would push the end outwards under a lot of pressure. Also it is possible it whacked the valves on that cyl.
Let us know (sure you will).... Is this another recall to be???
Reguards,
Rob
They just started it and listened to it. I am on the broken crank theory. If it did you can guarantee the valves are bent. Unless it just seized and never made it to TDC and even if it made it to TDC what are the odds that both valves were closed. I am betting it made it several times.
If I get a new bike, we may not know what happened for a while.
____________
Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
  
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TedG
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posted February 03, 2009 03:51 PM
 Edited By: TedG on 3 Feb 2009 23:59
quote:
...it should be if there are enough similar ones out there...hell,one is bad enough and two is too much...it could kill two ridrers 
The slipper clutch will most likely stop people from being killed. Great safety feature.
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Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
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The Pope
Novice Class
Posts: 44
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posted February 03, 2009 03:55 PM
We are all waiting ....
You'll know soon enough.
If tey don't want to tell you, tell them your going to get the 09 somewhere else!(After they fix the 08)
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The Pope
COG's NCAAD
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TedG
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posted February 03, 2009 04:00 PM
They will tell me, I have a very good relationship with that shop. They treat me quite well. My point was if I get a new one, they may be in no hurry to fix mine.
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Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
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TedG
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posted February 04, 2009 11:25 AM
Well, I just got back from the Kwak shop. They are ordering me an 09 black ABS. Should have it by next week.
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Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
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The Pope
Novice Class
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posted February 04, 2009 03:46 PM
I'm happy for you! I'm still waiting on the lotery!
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The Pope
COG's NCAAD
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The Pope
Novice Class
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posted February 04, 2009 03:47 PM
I'm happy for you! I'm still waiting on the lottery!
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The Pope
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oncourse
Expert Class
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posted February 04, 2009 04:06 PM
Congrat's on the '09 Ted, Black looks sweet right before the rainstorm... I think it would be easy for them to see if the crank is broken, just pull of the stator and put a socket and ratchet on the nut at the flywheel and move it. It should turn the engine. I was trying to see where the starter connected to the crank, but only looked at a parts schematic and it was hard to tell...
What would they do in the case where the crank is busted and the cases got damaged. would it be normal for them to replace just the parts needed, or replace the whole shebang? I know there is no part number for the whole long block, but is it possible to get one from Kaw somehow?
Good luck on the new ride, guess the dealer gave you a good deal on the broken one!
Reguards,
Rob
____________
True intellegence is not measured by your degrees.
04 klr 250 Lots of mods and 70 MPG!!
08 Connie 2 bros. Carbon. Helibars. Flies out, PC3!!!
2003 kx 500 SOLD
2004 KX 500 In service now, whata BEAST!
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TedG
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Posts: 8222
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posted February 04, 2009 05:04 PM
Edited By: TedG on 5 Feb 2009 01:22
The dealer gave me bluebook on the broken one, it had 33k miles. The service department said they may try to get a crate motor if it is hurt bad enough. They took some off MSRP so I basically got an ABS for the price of a non ABS. Not the best deal, but palatable.
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Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
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oncourse
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posted February 04, 2009 05:22 PM
Ted,
I thought there might be such a thing as a crate motor, but looking through parts schematics, they do not show one, is a dealer only option? That is what I am trying to figure out......
Cheers,
Rob
____________
True intellegence is not measured by your degrees.
04 klr 250 Lots of mods and 70 MPG!!
08 Connie 2 bros. Carbon. Helibars. Flies out, PC3!!!
2003 kx 500 SOLD
2004 KX 500 In service now, whata BEAST!
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TedG
Moderator
Posts: 8222
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posted February 04, 2009 05:26 PM
I don't know myself. I know some motors are available. I do know that sometimes they want to have the whole motor shipped for forensics and one would assume they would have something to replace it with.
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Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
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oncourse
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I hate flies!!!
Posts: 467
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posted February 04, 2009 06:15 PM
We had a customer that had an engine go bad in a '88 pont. 6000 with a gm 2.8l. Somehow the boss got a package delivered from gm in a BIG crate with the most complete engine assy I ever saw (our price in '90 was $1500). The car was not under warrany either, I do not work for a dealer.
It was totally complete, intake, injectors, exhaust manifolds, oil and filter, both balancers, everything you could ever want to swap (including plugs wires distributor etc..), exept it would not start and run. We sent it back to the dealer (the whole car, since the eng. assy had a warranty and I was a wet behind the ears rookie). The reason it would not run was due to plugged fuel injectors.... It must have been an assembly line pull or something of that sorts. In my 20 years of this stuff I have never seen a more complete engine, never knew how we got it, but might check into it...
Rob
____________
True intellegence is not measured by your degrees.
04 klr 250 Lots of mods and 70 MPG!!
08 Connie 2 bros. Carbon. Helibars. Flies out, PC3!!!
2003 kx 500 SOLD
2004 KX 500 In service now, whata BEAST!
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oncourse
Expert Class
I hate flies!!!
Posts: 467
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posted February 04, 2009 06:26 PM
One last thing for tonight, I will call my uncle tomorrow night to see what he thinks about this. He is a metelurgist, and also worked the indy circuit for 20 years as the techinical director. I will see if he has any insight as to how this could happen and get back to you.
Gnight,
Rob
____________
True intellegence is not measured by your degrees.
04 klr 250 Lots of mods and 70 MPG!!
08 Connie 2 bros. Carbon. Helibars. Flies out, PC3!!!
2003 kx 500 SOLD
2004 KX 500 In service now, whata BEAST!
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TedG
Moderator
Posts: 8222
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posted February 04, 2009 09:58 PM
A friend of mine is a world class hot rod builder and he ordered a 572 Chevy crate motor.It was complete aside from a car. But all the rest was there. Sweet.
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Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
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TedG
Moderator
Posts: 8222
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posted February 04, 2009 10:00 PM
Se where was it I heard that the 09 has a closed loop system?
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Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
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oncourse
Expert Class
I hate flies!!!
Posts: 467
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posted February 05, 2009 03:14 AM
The '09 model uses an o2 sensor, just like the '08 model for european countries. I think you can find it in the '08 service manual. There is only 1 and it is upstream, no second one to check for converter function.
Rob
____________
True intellegence is not measured by your degrees.
04 klr 250 Lots of mods and 70 MPG!!
08 Connie 2 bros. Carbon. Helibars. Flies out, PC3!!!
2003 kx 500 SOLD
2004 KX 500 In service now, whata BEAST!
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The Pope
Novice Class
Posts: 44
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posted February 05, 2009 03:46 AM
Here's a link to the european '08 service manual
http://www.davidandrhonda.com/Concours/1400GTR.pdf
http://www.davidandrhonda.com/Concours/FarkelLog.HTM
As a side note: There's a new "Power Commander V". It uses a Wide Band O2.
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The Pope
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oncourse
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posted February 05, 2009 05:48 PM
Ted,
Just got off the phone with my uncle, he knows metal more than anyone I know (possibly more than anyone in the usa knows).
His first suggestion was a hydrogen gas bubble from not slow cooling the billet or crank. This would be caused by water in the metal mix, I even asked him "how can water survive in 1000 degree heat, well it can. Another possibility is that a piece of porcelin used in metal mfr. could have been included. There are many possibilties as to a metal defect, and after talking with him, I would say he knows best. He has been with the steel industry for over 40 years, and a specialist in metalurgy.
So, if somehow you can get the crank, he will find out what happened to it, it construction, it metal content and on and on for $$0.00. Otherwise we are stuck with Kawi buring this incedent under the rug. It may have been a whole batch of metal that could effec many serial numbers as well as a one time incedent.
What really amazed me from talking with him, is that a forged crank, billet or just plain forged is HARDER than a cast crank. In otherwords, it is stiffer and can crack just like cast, but the forging (and a forging metal has finer grains) can crack smoother than a cast one. My whole theory was a forging was a softer type metal, that would "give" instead of crack, but he blew that out of the water. A forging can crack.
There was more to this conversation than I could ever repeat,,...... You would have to know metal from the inside out to even comprehend it, I don't...
The worst thing is that your bike did not just die, it proably siedswiped both surfaces wich would make it difficult to find the exact spot that caused it. But if you CAN get the crank I will hook you u up to the answer...
Reguards,
Rob
____________
True intellegence is not measured by your degrees.
04 klr 250 Lots of mods and 70 MPG!!
08 Connie 2 bros. Carbon. Helibars. Flies out, PC3!!!
2003 kx 500 SOLD
2004 KX 500 In service now, whata BEAST!
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TedG
Moderator
Posts: 8222
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posted February 05, 2009 09:05 PM
oncourse, I would love to get you and your uncle the crank. But the problems are twofold. First the crank is warranty, at that point it belongs to Kawasaki. Second the bike no longer belongs to me, it is owned by the dealership. I have a feeling if it determined to be a broken crank, Kawasaki will probably want the whole motor.
I could talk to you uncle for hours based on what you said about him. We may never know the real deal if Kawasaki wants the whole motor.
____________
Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
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worm~hole
Needs a life
Miles to go before I sleep....
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posted February 05, 2009 09:11 PM
CSI:Concours14
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stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
who would do us harm.”
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TedG
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Posts: 8222
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posted February 05, 2009 09:16 PM
The good part is I have a great relationship with the dealership and they will keep me informed. They may tear it apart.
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Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
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oncourse
Expert Class
I hate flies!!!
Posts: 467
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posted February 06, 2009 03:11 AM
I had a feeling it would be tough to get, but if somehow you could get it the offer is there...
Once Kawi gets it I do not think they will tell anyone including the dealer.
Reguards,
Rob
____________
True intellegence is not measured by your degrees.
04 klr 250 Lots of mods and 70 MPG!!
08 Connie 2 bros. Carbon. Helibars. Flies out, PC3!!!
2003 kx 500 SOLD
2004 KX 500 In service now, whata BEAST!
|
The Pope
Novice Class
Posts: 44
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posted February 06, 2009 03:36 AM
quote:
I had a feeling it would be tough to get, but if somehow you could get it the offer is there...
Once Kawi gets it I do not think they will tell anyone including the dealer.
Reguards,
Rob
I agree!
Ted,
Try to get the shop to open her up! That way you (we) will at least know what broke!
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The Pope
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oncourse
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I hate flies!!!
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posted February 06, 2009 05:14 PM
He really has no say in what happens at this point, yeah the dealer could do something, but Kawi could trump it all. It is all up in the air at this point. I would say at least, have them rip it apart, look at the broken halves, my uncle said that if there was a bubble it would have split in half at that point, depending on the size of it it may be visible as a empty crater on both sides. It may have been smaller, and with the miles he put on it in this condition the wear from both sides rubbing each other may have erased what happened.
I did research into whether a c-14 shared the crank with the zx, but it does not pan out, they are different.
Reguards,
Rob
____________
True intellegence is not measured by your degrees.
04 klr 250 Lots of mods and 70 MPG!!
08 Connie 2 bros. Carbon. Helibars. Flies out, PC3!!!
2003 kx 500 SOLD
2004 KX 500 In service now, whata BEAST!
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TedG
Moderator
Posts: 8222
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posted February 06, 2009 09:05 PM
I will be happy just to get the new one. The good part is the weather is going to suck this weekend and that makes it easier not having the bike.
____________
Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
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