fjrpilot
Parking Attendant
Posts: 11
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posted November 04, 2007 07:13 AM
Trouble With Fly Removal
Anybody have a problem removing the screws that hold the flies in? Mine are VERY tight like they have loctite or something on them. The head of the screw actually broke off. I quit at that point..I'd like to take them out but to do so I would have to break all the screws. At that point I'm committed. No easy way to go back..My bike was made in July. Are the bikes that they were removed easily on older? Maybe Kawasaki decided to make it a PITA to do. Just curious.
Later
Buzz
  
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MasterBlaster
Expert Class
Posts: 297
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posted November 04, 2007 08:07 AM
Havent done my C14 yet, but have them out on my ZX14, and yes they are locktighted. A good tip is use a pencil soldering iron to heat the screw, that will lessen the grip on the locktite. On one of mine I had to make a tool to get it out. I used a pair of extra long 90deg needle nosed pliers. I cut the needle nose about halfway back so the heavy part of the jaw could grip the screw. You can put a tremendous amount of pressure with the long handles. Using about 1/4 turn at a time it came right out. You dont want to put excessive force aganst the rod the butterflies are mounted on or it will bend, and bind during rotation. Also make sure your screwdriver is long enough to get a straight shot at the screws and also that it is not worn to wallow out the philips heads....TB
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gpz1100
Expert Class
Posts: 147
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posted November 04, 2007 08:15 AM
 Edited By: gpz1100 on 4 Nov 2007 08:19
Having just done this on a bike yesterday, I'll offer my 2 cents worth.
First of, having the proper screw driver is very important. The proper one is a JIS spec #2 philips.
The soldering iron technique is best. Have the tip of the WIRED iron nice and hot, apply the edge (not the tip) of the iron to the screw, hold it there for a good 20-30 sec. Then use the screw driver right away. If done properly, the screw will come out with minimal effort.
I didn't have the soldering iron, but did have a mini butane torch. I applied heat to the tip of the screw driver for ~20-30 sec, then placed the screw driver into the screw head. Leave it set ~10-15 seconds then start unscrewing. We started out with a screw driver from ace. That lasted for 1 1/2 screws. On the 2nd screw, the tip was shot and ended up stripping the head.
Fortunately the guy I was helping had the foresight to order those JIS screwdrivers. Although not long enough to get good leverage with, the tips were made of a better material and held up to the heating with the torch. And since not all that much effort was required, the length was sufficient.
Anyways, we used a drill to get the other screw out, along with a telescopic magnet to catch as much of the shavings as possible. Once out, the area was cleaned again with the magnet and alcohol to get as much out. During this process, DO NOT touch the throttle. The primary plates kept most of the debris contained.
Good luck!
Edit, found this on concours.org, copied without permission.
by Fred Harmon
"But I caution you, don't remove them unless you have a Power Commander installed with a proper map for this configuration, as your bike may run too lean and damage the top end of the engine due to excessive heat caused by the lean mixture.
You also need to take care not to drop any of the screws or anything else down into the intake, or it could go right into your cylinder and would destroy your engine when you start it up. You need to make SURE that the throttle stays CLOSED during the entire time you are working on it, so if you do drop a screw or anything else, that the throttle plates underneath are closed and would stop it from going into the engine. If you have any doubt about your mechanical abilities I would caution you not to attempt this yourself.
You can remove the screws with a #2 Craftsman philips screwdriver IF you are careful, but be warned it takes a lot of force to break the threadlock bond. If you aren't careful, you will strip out the heads on them. You really should use a Japanese screwdriver, as they are made a little bit differently. The JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard) screws look like a Phillips screw, but they are designed not to cam out. The JIS screwdriver tips are designed to reach deeper into the screw to provide a better grip and fit.
Some folks also report good luck by dipping the head of your screwdriver into valve grinding compound, and that this gives the screwdriver better contact and bite.
Here are some links to JIS screwdrivers
http://centralhobbies.com/Tools/jis.html
http://www.amessupply.com/products1.cfm?aid=1&cid=D&sid=DE&fid=1404070 "
Original post http://concours.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=36243
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fjrpilot
Parking Attendant
Posts: 11
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posted November 04, 2007 08:40 AM
Thanks for the advice. I was just going to forget about it but I really would like to get at all the available power so I will try your suggestions. I have a PC 3 installed and have a map from FBA for a AreaP pipe with flys removed. One thing I'm confused about. There are a lot of negative numbers in that map. Doesnt that mean less fuel?. Why would you take fuel away from a already lean mixture?
Buzz
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gpz1100
Expert Class
Posts: 147
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posted November 04, 2007 08:45 AM
I haven't seen FBA's map, so can't comment.
My bike was used as a source for fuelmoto's flies out/areap concours map. Looking at it, there are alot of negative numbers in the low rpm range at most throttle positions. The upper low to midrange fuel is added. At the top end/large throttle openings, fuel is removed.
Jamie asked me not to distribute his map, but you can get it directly form him (www.fuelmotousa.com).
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21896
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posted November 04, 2007 08:52 AM
Edited By: fish_antlers on 4 Nov 2007 08:52
thanks for all the info.... of course, the cog fellows are simply benefiting from all the research done at Concours14.com, Bikeland and at ZX-14.com. Search the forums here and you'll find this stuff posted a few years back !
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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fastestbusaaround
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted November 04, 2007 06:36 PM
Edited By: fastestbusaaround on 4 Nov 2007 20:06
TWS -- Totally Work Safe!!
ABSO-FUCKING-LUTELY Fish. They hadn't the foresight, knowledge or impetus to even think about it, until I brought it to them there, from here -- and all I heard from the beginning was premature comments like twitchy and abrupt throttle response, warranty and all sorts of other negative asswiping bullshit, all coming from the great "chiefs" there; more like great "morons" if you ask me, Anal Retard Peckerheads for the most part, 'like I've said here before, save a few of the more open minded members, most of which post here as well. Now there's a bunch of dicks there claiming that the bike pulls 90ma while off....cuz the fucking numbnuts can't or don't know how use a DVM or measure correctly, despite the fact that they claim to be "electrical engineers with 35 years of experience"....  
See these posts and have a good laugh at them -- they're so fucking smart -- 
First post (my war starts there) read the entire thread --
Click to see Donkeys in foreplay 
...and now, go read what the geniuses finally discovered there, after I politely tell them they don't know what they're doing --
Now click this to see Donkeys fucking :d
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FYYFF!!!
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TedG
Moderator
Posts: 8222
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posted November 04, 2007 07:44 PM
Edited By: TedG on 4 Nov 2007 19:55
That was just unbelieveable, one of the best systems ever brought to a motorcycle and they are complaining. I have basically the same system in my C6 and am spoiled, 
Also I did a J1850 to RS232 converter using a PIC qute a few years back to hook a Palm Pilot into the ODBII. Too simple.
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Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
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fastestbusaaround
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted November 04, 2007 08:03 PM
Edited By: fastestbusaaround on 4 Nov 2007 20:08
Yup, I love the KIPASS and all the rider additional security they've built into it. Active and passive RFID in case of battery failure...fucking brilliant! Tell me, is the C6 RFID similar to what they had on the 93 C4? I remember seeing those HUGE coils in the doors...but also remember that they had some issues with that system, before killing it in later model years. Just curious.
COG -- (self professed) Child Of God...me thinks...LOL
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FYYFF!!!
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TedG
Moderator
Posts: 8222
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posted November 04, 2007 08:18 PM
I had an 88 C4 and a 99 C5 and now a C6. The C6 system is nothing like the C4. No coils in the doors, they are in the body and very small. The C6 is very much like KPASS. It detects the fob and allows the doors to be opened, there is an LED that shows you if it doesn't detect the fob. There is a rocker switch the you press the top to start, bottom to turn off and bottom for accessory mode. Really nice. Never remove my fob from my pocket,
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Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
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08CC14
Expert Class
Posts: 109
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posted November 04, 2007 08:58 PM
Thanks for the heads up. Just ordered a set of JIS screwdrivers for myself.
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'08 ABS Concours 14
'97 YZF600R
'00 ZX6e (rideable but needs paint)
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AllStingNoBling
Expert Class
Posts: 128
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posted November 05, 2007 07:53 AM
Once again, bikeland.org pulls through. When I decide to pull the trigger on the flies, I know where to go.
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chez
Expert Class
Posts: 134
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posted November 05, 2007 02:10 PM
Can I swap the fuel injector unit off my zx14 to my Concours 14?
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Chez
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fastestbusaaround
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted November 05, 2007 04:17 PM
You probably could - I think the pinout is the same on the ECU, but even if you could, my guess is that the FI system on the ZX14 and the C14 aren't mapped the same...but why would ya wanna do that anyway?
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FYYFF!!!
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chez
Expert Class
Posts: 134
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posted November 05, 2007 06:59 PM
Edited By: chez on 5 Nov 2007 18:59
Just asking cause I have some from ZX14 with flies removed, also have ECU off ZX14..Just for a customer to try...
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Chez
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fastestbusaaround
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted November 05, 2007 07:31 PM
The folks who'd know for sure and should be able to tell you, would be Dynojet.
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FYYFF!!!
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