zx trouble
Novice Class
Posts: 56
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posted July 03, 2007 12:27 PM
i hear they dont have any secondary flys to restrict them n they have 2 injectors just simply remove the flys remap n you should then have more horse than the busa over a wider rpm range
  
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted July 03, 2007 01:41 PM
quote:
and while am at it.. I wonder why someone doesnt use the frame from the CBR 600 F4i, with a 1098 from duc thrown in for good measure. That should be a pretty sweet track / road tool..... ( wrong section, I know, but was just wondering... both the kwacker and the Busa arent exactly easy on the knees / shoulder.... )
why on earth you would want to down grade the f4i
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b03818
Expert Class
Posts: 148
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posted July 03, 2007 10:32 PM
quote:
It appears to me that the only thing different in the engine is they ported it out. To change the engine drastically would have cost, I'm guessing 20m to 40 million dollars in re-tooling costs and I currently don't see the Busas selling off the shelves like i-phones. As for aerodynamics they hit the nail on the head. It's great and well thought out. Ugly, probably but very aerodynamic. Can anyone confirm if this seat holds two people?
In regard to Bonneville and land speed racing, they won't be in the 14's 1650 class. The 14 holds the World record at Bonneville as the fastest stock bike of any class. Last year the stock Busas were 15 mph slower. Maybe with their new engine and "twin swril chambers"-- they will only be 10 mph slower.
If all stock bikes are suppose to be limited in top speed (186mph). How do you pull off a stock bike record, or is there something else involved? If you could direct me the the source of that info. Thanks!
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted July 03, 2007 11:44 PM
i have been looking and looking at the pix of the new Busa and something was appealing to me, but i couldn't put my finger on it.
Finally it dawned on me that what i REALLY like is the way the tail curves down rather than having a painful looking pointy ass end like the liter bikes.
The rounded tail reminds me of the old road racers.
I LIKE it!
(i ain't gonna buy one yet, but IMO Suz is going in the right direction)
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flyboy
Pro
Posts: 1536
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posted July 04, 2007 12:15 AM
 Edited By: flyboy on 4 Jul 2007 01:17
quote:
quote:
It appears to me that the only thing different in the engine is they ported it out. To change the engine drastically would have cost, I'm guessing 20m to 40 million dollars in re-tooling costs and I currently don't see the Busas selling off the shelves like i-phones. As for aerodynamics they hit the nail on the head. It's great and well thought out. Ugly, probably but very aerodynamic. Can anyone confirm if this seat holds two people?
In regard to Bonneville and land speed racing, they won't be in the 14's 1650 class. The 14 holds the World record at Bonneville as the fastest stock bike of any class. Last year the stock Busas were 15 mph slower. Maybe with their new engine and "twin swril chambers"-- they will only be 10 mph slower.
If all stock bikes are suppose to be limited in top speed (186mph). How do you pull off a stock bike record, or is there something else involved? If you could direct me the the source of that info. Thanks!
You eliminate the speed limiter which will gives you the bike's true top speed potential. On the 14 it is quite simple to do.
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'There's more living in five minutes flat-out on a bike than some men have in an entire life'.
"The World's Fastest Indian"
One fast red ZX-14,
Three World and four National Land Speed Records,
One faster red and white Cessna Turbo 210
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted July 04, 2007 06:52 AM
why give the hayabusa more stroke..? It already had a monstrous 63mm stroke.. going to 65 on the stroke is just going to lower piston speed.. For any given displacement the bike with the shorter stroke makes more horsepower.. The 1.5 point in compression increase is good however.. But I don't think its going to blow anything out of the park with those specs.
supra
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havabusa12r
Expert Class
Posts: 425
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posted July 04, 2007 06:58 AM
quote:
why give the hayabusa more stroke..? It already had a monstrous 63mm stroke.. going to 65 on the stroke is just going to lower piston speed.. For any given displacement the bike with the shorter stroke makes more horsepower.. The 1.5 point in compression increase is good however.. But I don't think its going to blow anything out of the park with those specs.
supra
Redline on the 08 is 'onlly' 11k?
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(68 Yam 175 2-stroke)
(99 Copper Busa) (99 Duc 900 SS full fairing) (00 MV Agusta F4S) (02 Aprilia RSV Mille) (02 ZX 12r CTB) (03 KTM 950 Adv)
(04 Yam R1) (05 LE Busa) (07 ZX 14)
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted July 04, 2007 07:36 AM
Edited By: entropy on 4 Jul 2007 08:37
quote:
..... For any given displacement the bike with the shorter stroke makes more horsepower.....
supra
agreed, but only at uber rpm
more stroke = better hp at lower rpm... more useful for the street.
IMO that's why the 99-07 Busas walk the ZX12's in roll ons.
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted July 04, 2007 08:52 AM
I have NEVER LOST a roll on a with any busa anywhere.. whether it was a pipe and pc3 or how it is set up now.. As a matter of fact even the best challenge jumped me by 1/2 bike length and I walked him from 7000 all the way to the limiter... Has anybody seen
RETURN OF THE MACH 3?
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted July 04, 2007 08:56 AM
As a matter of fact I called out 3 of my buddies on their busas last month of my wifes zx9r... I gave them all they wanted...
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jw
Novice Class
Posts: 81
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posted July 04, 2007 09:01 AM
quote:
why give the hayabusa more stroke..? It already had a monstrous 63mm stroke.. going to 65 on the stroke is just going to lower piston speed.. For any given displacement the bike with the shorter stroke makes more horsepower.. The 1.5 point in compression increase is good however.. But I don't think its going to blow anything out of the park with those specs.
supra
Increase the stroke, you increase mean piston speed.
What you talkin 'bout Willis?
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted July 04, 2007 09:29 AM
Edited By: entropy on 4 Jul 2007 10:32
quote:
I have NEVER LOST a roll on a with any busa anywhere.. whether it was a pipe and pc3 or how it is set up now.. As a matter of fact even the best challenge jumped me by 1/2 bike length and I walked him from 7000 all the way to the limiter... Has anybody seen
RETURN OF THE MACH 3?
at 7800-8200 the 12 gets on the nice part of its hp curve. Try that same roll-on from 4000...
and yep, i certainly have seen all of the Mach vids (5 years ago), but facts is facts, long stroke makes hp down low better than short stroke for the same cc motor.
My neighbor's VTX positively rockets off a stop light (up to about 50mph)
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havabusa12r
Expert Class
Posts: 425
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posted July 04, 2007 09:40 AM
Edited By: havabusa12r on 4 Jul 2007 13:47
Long before the 14 was released to the public in 06, it already had SEVERAL head-to-head tests against the Gen1 busa. In every perceivable category. Restricted and de-restricted!
Don't you think that KAWK had several busas to test and tweak their 14 to, or do you think that it was created in a vacuum?
Don't you think that Suzi also had several 14's at their disposal when they were developing the 08 busa?
Don't you think that Suzi bested the 14? That's what they were gunning for, not the Gen1 busa.
____________
(68 Yam 175 2-stroke)
(99 Copper Busa) (99 Duc 900 SS full fairing) (00 MV Agusta F4S) (02 Aprilia RSV Mille) (02 ZX 12r CTB) (03 KTM 950 Adv)
(04 Yam R1) (05 LE Busa) (07 ZX 14)
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havabusa12r
Expert Class
Posts: 425
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posted July 04, 2007 09:42 AM
The 12 vs the busa in 2000 was a different story.
KAWK was caught with their pants down, by shooting for the XX?
____________
(68 Yam 175 2-stroke)
(99 Copper Busa) (99 Duc 900 SS full fairing) (00 MV Agusta F4S) (02 Aprilia RSV Mille) (02 ZX 12r CTB) (03 KTM 950 Adv)
(04 Yam R1) (05 LE Busa) (07 ZX 14)
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Wheelie
Needs a life
Old Man
Posts: 6902
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posted July 04, 2007 09:45 AM
Edited By: Wheelie on 4 Jul 2007 10:47
quote:
The 12 vs the busa in 2000 was a different story.
KAWK was caught with their pants down, by shooting for the XX?
wee
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b03818
Expert Class
Posts: 148
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posted July 04, 2007 10:19 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
It appears to me that the only thing different in the engine is they ported it out. To change the engine drastically would have cost, I'm guessing 20m to 40 million dollars in re-tooling costs and I currently don't see the Busas selling off the shelves like i-phones. As for aerodynamics they hit the nail on the head. It's great and well thought out. Ugly, probably but very aerodynamic. Can anyone confirm if this seat holds two people?
In regard to Bonneville and land speed racing, they won't be in the 14's 1650 class. The 14 holds the World record at Bonneville as the fastest stock bike of any class. Last year the stock Busas were 15 mph slower. Maybe with their new engine and "twin swril chambers"-- they will only be 10 mph slower.
If all stock bikes are suppose to be limited in top speed (186mph). How do you pull off a stock bike record, or is there something else involved? If you could direct me the the source of that info. Thanks!
You eliminate the speed limiter which will gives you the bike's true top speed potential. On the 14 it is quite simple to do.
Please educate me! I was told by a lying ass Kaw dealer that it was expensive and there was something to do with the computer. I thought the old ZX12 just needed a speedometer tweek. And by the way what was the top speed for the 14? Also was the other restrictors that the busa has on it removed also like the pair valve?
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advanced kawasaki
Novice Class
Posts: 39
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posted July 04, 2007 10:29 AM
Expensive? That's laughable. It uses the gear indicator to know the bikes in 6th. No 6th, no speed limiter. You with me?
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b03818
Expert Class
Posts: 148
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posted July 04, 2007 10:32 AM
I have heard of two spark plugs per cylinder, but not two injectors. Is this a way of making the engine more upgrade friendly? I can't wait to see that bad mutha in action. My guess is if the 14 did break the stock bike speed record, it will just have to move aside because that is Suzukis' main cagtegory. That was the main intention for the first hayabusa.
I still can't see how a 14 can break a top speed record with that broad front end!
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Hawkman
Zone Head
Posts: 747
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posted July 04, 2007 11:11 AM
There is a thing called a Speedo Healer. It takes away the limiter. Brock used it to get his stock motored 14 over 200mph.
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Wheelie
Needs a life
Old Man
Posts: 6902
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posted July 04, 2007 11:39 AM
I have a feeling that the new Busa is going to look HOT when its lowered and piped, and the mudflap is removed. wee
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jw
Novice Class
Posts: 81
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posted July 04, 2007 11:41 AM
quote:
I have heard of two spark plugs per cylinder, but not two injectors. Is this a way of making the engine more upgrade friendly? I can't wait to see that bad mutha in action. My guess is if the 14 did break the stock bike speed record, it will just have to move aside because that is Suzukis' main cagtegory. That was the main intention for the first hayabusa.
I still can't see how a 14 can break a top speed record with that broad front end!
Mainly used to smooth low end fuel delivery. While maintaining full throttle peak fuel needs.
Injectors are rated at a certain flow rate for peak flow requirements. The injectors are turned on and off very quickly to vary flow rate. At very low flow rates, they are turned on a very short time. Unfortunately, the bigger the injectors, the less accurate this low flow is. Big hp engines need big injectors. Sometimes too big to idle well. So slap a set of smaller injector to manage low speed, add the secondary injectors at WOT.
I have a feeling this was done more for emission reasons.
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ozzy
Needs a job
need guberment cheese
Posts: 3172
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posted July 04, 2007 05:04 PM
why is this suckzooky thread in the C14 section?
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted July 04, 2007 06:02 PM
I don't see moto gp using large strokes and their making only 260 plus bhp with less than 1,000cc. That formula is on par with formula 1..
spinning the tire and being quick at lower speed ranges only lasts so long.. especially if your talking about roll ons and big numbers..
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted July 04, 2007 06:04 PM
the larger the stroke the less you can safely rev the motor.. you can easily spin a zx12r to 12,200 and keep the piston speed under 5000 fpm..
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21890
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posted July 04, 2007 07:05 PM
quote:
why is this suckzooky thread in the C14 section?
why are you in the 14 section?
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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