tundra tom
Novice Class
Posts: 68
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posted June 28, 2007 04:02 AM
As Fish stated impressions are realative to the user. Here's a post from a previous C-10 owner regarding his first ride on the C-14:
Sam Koehler (COG 381) took delivery of his C14 ABS today from 2 Wheel Motorsports in Guelph, Ont. He called me at work today with his first impressions.....
- It PULLS! Torque, torque and more torque in the low end. Will happily accelerate (gently) from 2000 rpm in top gear.
- It's got excellent BRAKES!
- Windshield protection in 'up' position not nearly as good as C10, but when in down position you're in relatively clean air. Those accustomed to a 'normal' C10 windshield will be looking for a taller/wider one on the C14
- Top gear cruising RPM less than 3000 rpm @ 105 km/hr (65 mph)Should translate to good MPG? Still lots of passing power in top gear at this speed.
- Mirrors position is not the best. Mirrors give a good view of the top of the saddlebags
Ride limited to 90 km due to local thunderstorm
Is this the first C14 delivery to a COG member?
n C-14 first ride:
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"When my time has come, I prefer to be in the Saddle rather than the Recliner"
  
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fish_antlers
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posted June 28, 2007 07:32 AM
I think the operative word in that is "Gently" - and he mentioned that ... As I mentioned, it does pull, but it doesnt start to come alive until above 4500K... it certainly can't hold a candle to a ZX14 or a Busa or any twin (say your SV) under 4K...
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worm~hole
Needs a life
Miles to go before I sleep....
Posts: 10623
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posted June 28, 2007 08:28 AM
...mebbe the fish needs to readjust his ass-dyno to go from hyper sportbikes to heavy touring bikes for a more acute eval?...its easy for any hypersportbike rider to say any touring rig feels flat on the bottom....light and quick accelerating bikes feel different from heavy steady accelerating bikes, obviously...it makes sense when a COG member, whom we'll shall safely assume rides a ZG1000 of some vintage, says that the C14 PULLS in a positive manner...still, the fish's opinions from a sportbiker's point of view are valuable for the sportbike riders who may wish to indulge in a bagged touring sum sum....
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fish_antlers
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posted June 28, 2007 04:21 PM
worm.. I disagree.... as I said (and I'm retyping this).. if you come off of a 14 or a busa, you'll be disappointed IMHO... if you come off of a "legacy" Concours... you'll be thrilled.
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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worm~hole
Needs a life
Miles to go before I sleep....
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posted June 28, 2007 05:07 PM
 Edited By: worm~hole on 28 Jun 2007 18:09
....and that's what I more or less said, but in more detail  ...and I'm retyping this "...still, the fish's opinions from a sportbiker's point of view are valuable for the sportbike riders who may wish to indulge in a bagged touring sum sum".... well except for the first sentence....I made that one up all by my damn self 
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tundra tom
Novice Class
Posts: 68
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posted June 28, 2007 06:22 PM
Reality check for sure, it's an ST, not a sport bike. Personally I just want something that's comfortable with shaft drive and hard bags and no vibes.....that's still got enough power and handling to get my Ya-Ya's out. I'd say the C-14 will do nicely.
I venture to guess the VVT is utilized to retain some top end that gets sacrificed with milder cams, lower compression and down sized TB's.
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"When my time has come, I prefer to be in the Saddle rather than the Recliner"
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fish_antlers
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posted June 28, 2007 06:39 PM
there's no vibes... that's for sure! 
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Langly
Parking Attendant
Posts: 3
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posted July 01, 2007 09:16 AM
snip
First off, the bike is gutless below 4500 rpm. It might as well be a 600 in the basement, that's just my take on it.. Above 4K and it starts to come alive, and really wakes up above 7K.
On the highway for overtaking at 70mph you need to be in 4th gear or lower to get the tach into the beginning of the power. If you roll on at this speed in 5th or 6th it's like driving a Tercel.
snip
quote:
I had a totally different impression after my 30 minute C14 test ride. I found the engine to be very smooth and tractable through all the RPM ranges. It does pull much stronger at higher RPMs the nature of a straight four. But I would not call it gutless at low RPMs. Making less power sure but not gutless. The C14 transmission and final were the smoothest I have ever ridden. One of my current rides is a CBR1100X the standard for smooth straight four powerplants.
I did note that the FI was mapped very lean for emissions which would be easily remedied with a power commander and a pipe or full system if you really want to uncork things. The C14 is one of the finest all around rides I have been on. I am coming from an ST1100, ST1300, FJR, CBR1100X background. Different bikes different impressions. I was one sad rider when I returned the standard C14 to the dealer. I'm holding out for an ABS model.
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fish_antlers
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posted July 01, 2007 09:24 AM
Edited By: fish_antlers on 1 Jul 2007 10:28
Thanks for your impressions... I believe that "where you're coming from" is the key to this bike, and as I've said before, I feel pretty strongly that a lot of members of this site believed the C14 would be a ZX-14 with bags, but it's not... it doesnt have the power in the basement that it's sibling does and that's a fact.
Next time you're out for a ride, try rolling on at different speeds in different gears watching the tach.. you'll see exactly what I mean... the bike begins to pull, but not until 4200-4500 rpm, and then builds from there with another noticeable "hit" at about 7K... I've been keeping a close eye on the tach to try to pin down just where it makes power and how.
Remember... this isn;t a bad thing... Actually I think it's pretty good. It makes the Connie rideable and very easy to manage in traffic or to take a passenger.
As for "uncorking", I'm not sure how much can be achieved.. bike is about 150 at the crank.. take away loss for the shaft drive and the extra 150 lbs in weight, and well.. you get the picture.
The bike is a more than capable sport tourer and it's a pleasure to ride! It's not a ZX-14 with bags.
(I've spent a LOT more time than 30 minutes in the saddle on this bike BTW)
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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Langly
Parking Attendant
Posts: 3
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posted July 01, 2007 12:32 PM
Edited By: Langly on 1 Jul 2007 13:33
quote:
Thanks for your impressions... I believe that "where you're coming from" is the key to this bike, and as I've said before, I feel pretty strongly that a lot of members of this site believed the C14 would be a ZX-14 with bags, but it's not... it doesnt have the power in the basement that it's sibling does and that's a fact.
Next time you're out for a ride, try rolling on at different speeds in different gears watching the tach.. you'll see exactly what I mean... the bike begins to pull, but not until 4200-4500 rpm, and then builds from there with another noticeable "hit" at about 7K... I've been keeping a close eye on the tach to try to pin down just where it makes power and how.
No the C14 is not a ZX14 with bags. The entire VVT valvetrain is different. The final is different. Totally different market. The ZX14 with bags would be easy. Some risers, some frames, some bags. The C14 is aimed at the market that want to knock down 500, 1000, 1500 or even 2000 mile days..
I'm sure there are plenty of aftermarket options for a ZX14 with bags. If one was ergonomically comfortable this would make a most excellent sport tourer. I believe the C14 is aimed more with the emphasis on touring than sport and the ZX14 the inverse.
I did roll the C14 up and down at various speeds and it is very tractable. There was no neck snapping acceleration like a pure sports bike. But the C14 does get on down the road at arrest me now speeds very quickly. I believe from the feel of the engine that the FI mapping is VERY lean for emissions testing purposes.
So you telling me a ZX14 with stock FI mapping and pipe is a stump puller below 5k RPM's?
I don't believe the ZX14 and C14 markets are the same not to disparage either bike. Comparing the two is like comparing a sprinter and marathon runner. No straight 4 makes A LOT of power below 5K. They make ok power but not a lot. Even a V-twin doesn't make good power below 3-4K. I don't get the gutless below 5K thing but that's ok.
As I recall the FJR had good grunt around 2-3K, but I didn't spend much time there as the engine made much better torque over 4k. This is a sport touring bike right not a forgive me Goldwing. Goldwings make excellent torque down low and are excellent engines. Are they pure sport bikes no.
What elevations were you running the C14 in? I was running about 700'ASL.
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fish_antlers
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posted July 01, 2007 01:33 PM
Well, since we run the largest ZX-14 owner's group in the world, we know that there were/are lotsa 14 people who were thinking the C14 may be a ZX with bags...
Yes.. the ZX-14 will pull the doors off a C14 below 5K.
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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ozzy
Needs a job
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posted July 02, 2007 04:48 AM
quote:
Yes.. the ZX-14 will pull the doors off a C14 below 5K.
dont you just love how they retune for low end and mess it up
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"It's 106 miles to Chicago, we've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses......HIT IT!"
Blues Bros.
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fish_antlers
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posted July 02, 2007 08:46 AM
well... the extra weight and the drivetrain could be playing a major part as well!
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fastestbusaaround
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted July 02, 2007 02:48 PM
quote:
Thanks for your impressions... I believe that "where you're coming from" is the key to this bike, and as I've said before, I feel pretty strongly that a lot of members of this site believed the C14 would be a ZX-14 with bags, but it's not... it doesnt have the power in the basement that it's sibling does and that's a fact.
Next time you're out for a ride, try rolling on at different speeds in different gears watching the tach.. you'll see exactly what I mean... the bike begins to pull, but not until 4200-4500 rpm, and then builds from there with another noticeable "hit" at about 7K... I've been keeping a close eye on the tach to try to pin down just where it makes power and how.
Remember... this isn;t a bad thing... Actually I think it's pretty good. It makes the Connie rideable and very easy to manage in traffic or to take a passenger.
As for "uncorking", I'm not sure how much can be achieved.. bike is about 150 at the crank.. take away loss for the shaft drive and the extra 150 lbs in weight, and well.. you get the picture.
The bike is a more than capable sport tourer and it's a pleasure to ride! It's not a ZX-14 with bags.
(I've spent a LOT more time than 30 minutes in the saddle on this bike BTW)
Just for fun -- you might wanna do some saddle time on a FJR...
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FYYFF!!!
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In10city
Novice Class
Posts: 35
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posted July 03, 2007 09:48 AM
Would this bike be a good replacement for a 2003 ZZR1200 AND a 2005 FJR1300 (non-ABS)? I have 2 bikes jammed in the garage with a car. Twice the maintenance, insurance, property tax, 'special purpose tools', oil, plugs, and filter inventories. Not to mention it always seems like I need a new tire.
I've gone from summer long monthly mountain tours to once or twice a year and daily commuting to and from work. I LOVE my ZZR but I can only really enjoy it's intended purpose 5% of the time, the rest of the time I'm just a commuter cooking rear tires every 6K miles.
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Ulric
Parking Attendant
Posts: 11
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posted July 03, 2007 11:15 AM
It's really interesting how many ways the negatively charged word "gutless" can be construed, depending on what previous experiences it may refer to. Personally, I find it hard to believe that any 618 lb bike with 153 hp at 8800 and 100 foot pounds of torque at 6200 could be described as "gutless" at any rpm, because so much would depend on the previous experience of the owner in such an unquantitative term. My Magna, with 80+ hp could discipline quite a few Porsche drivers, and one could not describe it as "gutless" at any rpm, because in any gear appropriate to the moment, open the throttle and the rpm ain't the same long enough to worry about. The numbers on the C14 should work out to 120 + or - in the 1/4 mile and that sure ain't gutless. My take: Fish was making a point, but maybe "gutless" was the wrong word, how about "6.8 giggle spasms" on a scale of 1 to 10? Let's all strive for accuracy...but what do I know, I have never sampled a really fast bike...LOL
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fish_antlers
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posted July 03, 2007 04:54 PM
it's 153 at the crank
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Ulric
Parking Attendant
Posts: 11
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posted July 03, 2007 04:57 PM
I wonder what the RWHP is? It can't be much below 120 to 130 and that's considerable...
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1393kph
Novice Class
Posts: 50
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posted July 04, 2007 03:27 AM
quote:
FJR would satisfy even the most adamant power hungry sport bike riders, but I'd agree with the 1st part of your statement. The old Concourse didn't have a huge amount of spunk to begin with.
Aside from the fact that you don't know how to spell "Concours", I never had much trouble keeping up with you guys whan I had mine - especially in the twisties (mind you, back then you were on the 'Busa, and everyone knows that that's a machine suitable only for old women).
My FJR is nice - but after the buildup you gave me before I got mine I was expecting *more*. It isn't that it isn't enough power, but there's always room for more if you don't mind changing tires more often.
However, if the engine on the C14 is as smooth as the one on the ZX14, they have a winner, not that I'm planning a change anytme soon.
It's more about the rider than it is about the machine. Too many riders don't understand their personal limits and that's where the trouble begins.
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ozzy
Needs a job
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posted July 04, 2007 03:33 AM
fish, how does the C14 compare to a ZX12R in a 60-80 mph roll on in hi gear?
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"It's 106 miles to Chicago, we've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses......HIT IT!"
Blues Bros.
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DPS
Parking Attendant
Posts: 5
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posted July 04, 2007 11:13 PM
Anyone that still thinks the FJR is "top of its class" should avoid buying a 2007 model. I got tired of waiting for the C14 and bought one last month. The 2007's surge violently when driven at altitudes above ~2,500' and at least one wreck has been reported. Mine went from zero to about 50% throttle while nearly stopped in 1st gear pulling one of my hands off the bars. The NHTSA site shows a growing list of complaints being filed, all for the same thing. The ECU's just "go off the map" at high altitude and stop responding to normal throttle inputs. Turning the bike off and then back on clears the problem, until you change altitude again.
I haven't owned a bike this "dangerous" since I sold my '72 H2.
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fish_antlers
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posted July 05, 2007 04:22 AM
Ozz.... I believe the 12R is faster...
DPS... is this the DPS from yesteryear?
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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DPS
Parking Attendant
Posts: 5
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posted July 05, 2007 06:55 AM
It's me.
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nabrxx
Needs a job
Posts: 2853
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posted July 05, 2007 04:24 PM
Sport touring is sport TOURING. Fish gave us his take and it didnt surprise me. I wanted a 14 with some luggage space and still wanted to be able to lane split....So ....I put a givi top-box on...Now ive got a 14 with bags....the best SPORT tourer on the street!
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What we don't understand, we can
make mean anything...
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Steve516
Parking Attendant
Posts: 11
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posted July 08, 2007 06:52 PM
Perhaps fish needs to be more careful with his choice of words?
I think most of this debate will end once a few more folks get a chance to ride and submit their feelings to the masses...
I'm drooling at the C14 personally.
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together, have a few laughs...
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