Warchild
Parking Attendant
Rapin' Asphalt
Posts: 16
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posted September 26, 2006 08:15 AM
Three tech specs left unanswered
So, okay, maybe I missed them, but I've been looking pretty hard around the dozens of Kawa-specific forums, sport-touring forums, COG, etc, and I just can't find some *official* word on these three GTR1400 tech specs:
1) Rated alternator output - I can only speculate it's identical to the ZX-14, but I don't know that for a fact. (Er... could one of y'all tell me what is the rated output of the ZX-14's alternator?)
2) Fuel capacity - Again, suspect it's identical to the ZX-14, but since it's a pure "sport-touring" platform, perhaps it was increased a little? Maybe? (hey, one can hope...)
3) Headlights - I know the ZX-14 has H7 bulbs in its 4 projector lamp housings... and I was praying for the same on the GTR1400. But I swear those two big reflector housings on the GTR1400 really, REALLY look like they take the H4 bulb. That would suck moist ass, if true.... 
If'n anyone has any hard facts on the above three items, I'm pretty keen to hear it....
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- Warchild
   
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D
Needs a job
Posts: 3365
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posted September 26, 2006 10:01 AM
What's wrong with H4's?
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Warchild
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Posts: 16
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posted September 26, 2006 11:10 AM
quote:
What's wrong with H4's?
Nothing, if one wants to stay with stock halogen lighting.
However, for what I have planned for the GTR1400, I will want to utilize HID lighting.
Placing HID lamps in a reflector housing that is dedicated to a single filament (H7, H3, etc) yields some OUTSTANDING light output. You should see the way I can turn night into day when I light off the HID lamps on my Blackbird... but my XX uses single-filament bulbs: one H7 for low beam, one H7 for high beam.
OTOH, installing HID lamps in a dual-purpose reflector housing (i.e.: one that takes a dual-filament bulb such as the H4) can frequently be problematic. The light output is so intense, light "scatter" is an issue, particularly on 2-lane roads. By "scatter", I mean that some of the HID brightness hits the high-beam "portion" of the reflector housing, sending out a vague, ghostly "high-beam" (even when the low-beam bulb is "shielded"). You can counteract this "ghosting" effect by physically aiming the light lower than the stock settings... but this sorta defeats the purpose of having HID to begin with.
Too, in addition to the massive lighting, I am also going to need the power to keep my cold-weather electric clothing burning on a high setting, concurrent with the aux driving lights. Hence my alternator output question... if I don't have something on the order off at least 575-watts available (thereabouts), that's a key problem for the mission I have planned for the GTR....
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- Warchild
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D
Needs a job
Posts: 3365
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posted September 26, 2006 12:15 PM
I had the HID on the 10 as well so I understand what yer sayin but the fact remains that the reflector portion of the headlamp still is NOT designed for optimal HID use anyway.
Prolly an option next year???
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Warchild
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Posts: 16
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posted September 26, 2006 01:57 PM
 Edited By: Warchild on 26 Sep 2006 14:57
quote:
I had the HID on the 10 as well so I understand what yer sayin but the fact remains that the reflector portion of the headlamp still is NOT designed for optimal HID use anyway.
Definitely true for any dual-filament housing.
Single-filament applications are another matter... while true, the Blackbird's H7 reflector housing was originally designed for halogen technology, a properly fitting HID lamp with the correct H7 base, and which yields the correct focal point, this will put out a staggering amount of usable light.
With both HID lamps lit off, here's what it's like in front of my XX... obviously, I only use these systems when out by myself in the High Desert; you're not going to get away using these in the presence of any traffic:
I bet HID lamps in the ZX-14's projector lens housings are beyond insane.... really wish the GTR1400 had 'em.
But like you say, D, maybe it'll be an option next year...
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- Warchild
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ZX11D
Zone Head
Internet Police
Posts: 674
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posted September 26, 2006 05:07 PM
Warchild, ZX14 uses H9 65 W high beams light bulb and low beams have H11 55W units.
Likewise, I was hoping for the same on GTR1400. I agree with you on the difficulty of using HID for H4 application. I have one on my ZX11, the type with solenoid coil that slides the element In and Out within the socket when you swith between Hi - Low beams. Not a perfect solution.
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fastestbusaaround
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted September 26, 2006 05:25 PM
Warchild...still have the FJR?
BTW...I have HID's on my 14...major issues. maybe you can help me fix them...
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FYYFF!!!
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warchild
Parking Attendant
Rapin' Asphalt
Posts: 16
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posted September 26, 2006 09:31 PM
quote:
Warchild, ZX14 uses H9 65 W high beams light bulb and low beams have H11 55W units.
Now, I thought for sure I had read an early article from a Brit moto-mag that the new 14 used H7s all around... did not know about the use of H11 and H9 bulbs at all! Thx for that info...
quote:
Warchild...still have the FJR?quote:
Oh, most definitely.
However, if I indeed end up going after the GTR1400, that will havr e to mean the big Yammy will have to depart the Warchild stable. Pity, 'cuz it's a seriously excellent machine in it's own right.
And, naturally, it's paid for. *sigh* And after a couple years/$K's, it is all set up perfectly for my LD runs. Time to start from scratch again, I guess. Dammit to hell , Kawasaki, WHY do you feed my motocyclene addition by offering the perfect platform for my needs/wants/desires?! 
quote:
BTW...I have HID's on my 14...major issues. maybe you can help me fix them...
Sure, man... what are the symptoms? Describe their misbehavior and I'll see if I can help ya....
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- Warchild
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fastestbusaaround
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I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted September 27, 2006 01:53 AM
Ok...the lows and highs on the 14 are encased as one unit and are not separately adjustable. Left and right of course are, but only as a single unit on each side. Now, when you put an HID bulb into a stock projector, seeing as how the bulbs are substantially longer, the projection angle changes completely.
The result...
Low beams project no more than 20 ft out, large gaping black hole dead center at 25' on. High beams face the sky at 15" out....
So...lows are way too low and highs are way too high...and cannot be separately adjusted. They look cool, but offer little usable light.
I was able to get the lows adjusted to a point where they shed a fair amount of light (though they could be better), but they are still not throwing light far enough out and believe it or not, are way too high). I did get rid of the black hole...
They could probably be tuned to "acceptable", but the highs now face the sky and just light up the road 15-20 ft out, max. The whole projector just doesn't work for theses bulbs.
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FYYFF!!!
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ZX11D
Zone Head
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posted September 27, 2006 04:33 AM
You may be better off puting some high quality halogen bulbs, such as PIAA 4000K, back to the high beams projectors. This would restore you stock high beams and would aslo eliminate the warm-up delay the HID's have each time you turn them on. In fact, most of the cars that come with factory HID lights use standard halogen high beam. 
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fastestbusaaround
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I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted September 27, 2006 05:56 AM
That's true, but the HID highs come on quick enough for me...in fact I have all 4 beams on all the time in any case. Tried putting the halo's back in, but they still face the sky now, although much lower than the HID's. Have to find a way to shim the projectors or the bases..not sure yet which way to go...what a PITA...what were they thinking with no separate adjustment capability? Some engineer's version of weight saving??
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FYYFF!!!
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Warchild
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Posts: 16
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posted September 27, 2006 05:59 AM
quote:
Ok...the lows and highs on the 14 are encased as one unit and are not separately adjustable. Left and right of course are, but only as a single unit on each side. Now, when you put an HID bulb into a stock projector, seeing as how the bulbs are substantially longer, the projection angle changes completely.
I bolded the words that most likely caused your problems.... the length of the HID bulb isn't the issue; rather, it is absolutely critical that the HID retains the *exact*, *same* focal point as the H11 or H9 bulb it's replacing.
Here's an example (though in this case, I'm working with a H4 application, making a H4 "high-beam" equivalent in HID):
When I say "focal point", I'm referring to the precise location of the filament as it resides in the lamp housing. The HID capsule needs to be oriented so that it EXACTLY, PRECISELY matches up with the stock H4 high-beam filament placement, as shown by the yellow line below. Any placement other than this precise point, and the focal point will likely be all dicked up, resulting in a piss-poor, out-of-focus beamcast:
If the HID bulbs (and I ASSume they had the proper H9 or H11 base) that you used did not exactly match the H9/H11 filaments, I could definitely see why the output was sub-optimal.
OTOH... I have yet to examine the projector lens on the ZX-14, so I could be off the mark here. 
Regardless, it does appear that the GTR1400 is going to have H4 bulbs, so... I'll have work something out. Which is part of the fun of modding your bike, or course. 
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- Warchild
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fastestbusaaround
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted September 27, 2006 06:08 AM
Here's a link to the pics I posted on the HID's on my 14. I won't say they suck as I know it's an install /projector issue...but they give me nothing for night driving...except that I probably won't attract as many deer...
Yes, I did use the correct base on install...if ever a bike begged for HID's...the ZX14 is the one.
From past posts on your site and other's you've posted on over the years, me thinks you're the one that can help me with this...but I understand that without seeing the actual projectors, it's a tough call. I've seen you around since I had my '04 FJR...I think the whole Internet bike world knows who you are by now...
BTW, welcome to Bikeland! You're gonna love it here. Nice to have you here now. Hope you're planning to stick around.
http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=27&TID=24320
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FYYFF!!!
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zx14_1965
Zone Head
Posts: 505
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posted October 09, 2006 08:36 PM
Not sure what you're talkin' about, but I've had no issues with the setup I picked up in Japan. It has vastly improved night time visibility a thousand times over.No extra amperage or voltage draw from the stock alternator...zero....zip. No negative issues to report on the system I picked up. I'll never waste money on so called "HID" units you can buy here in the states. I liked it so much I picked up a setup for my 06 Camry and wife's 05 Corolla. Somebody else may have invented it, but they are known to make it 100 times better. ie; cars, trucks, sports cars, home electronics etc.
I'm speaking from personal experience on the system I bought. You may have a point on the "junk HID" kits they sell here.
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zx14_1965
Zone Head
Posts: 505
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posted October 09, 2006 08:41 PM
Edited By: zx14_1965 on 9 Oct 2006 21:42
quote:
Ok...the lows and highs on the 14 are encased as one unit and are not separately adjustable. Left and right of course are, but only as a single unit on each side. Now, when you put an HID bulb into a stock projector, seeing as how the bulbs are substantially longer, the projection angle changes completely.
The result...
Low beams project no more than 20 ft out, large gaping black hole dead center at 25' on. High beams face the sky at 15" out....
So...lows are way too low and highs are way too high...and cannot be separately adjusted. They look cool, but offer little usable light.
I was able to get the lows adjusted to a point where they shed a fair amount of light (though they could be better), but they are still not throwing light far enough out and believe it or not, are way too high). I did get rid of the black hole...
They could probably be tuned to "acceptable", but the highs now face the sky and just light up the road 15-20 ft out, max. The whole projector just doesn't work for theses bulbs.
These issues are non existent on the Daytona (Bellof) and PIAA HID kits sold in Japan. ZZR1400 specific kits have been out on the JDM since May. As I may have mentioned somewhere else, these kits are plug n' play. Taking everything apart to remove the stock bulbs takes longer than the actual install itself. 
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zx14_1965
Zone Head
Posts: 505
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posted October 09, 2006 08:45 PM
quote:
You may be better off puting some high quality halogen bulbs, such as PIAA 4000K, back to the high beams projectors. This would restore you stock high beams and would aslo eliminate the warm-up delay the HID's have each time you turn them on. In fact, most of the cars that come with factory HID lights use standard halogen high beam.
Warm up time?...boy you guys must be talking about some serious low grade "HID" kits.
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ZX11D
Zone Head
Internet Police
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posted October 10, 2006 07:31 AM
quote:
quote:
You may be better off puting some high quality halogen bulbs, such as PIAA 4000K, back to the high beams projectors. This would restore you stock high beams and would aslo eliminate the warm-up delay the HID's have each time you turn them on. In fact, most of the cars that come with factory HID lights use standard halogen high beam.
Warm up time?...boy you guys must be talking about some serious low grade "HID" kits.
All HID Xenon light bulbs have initial warm-up time. Have one in my MB, worth some major $$$, it also takes time before the lights reach full intensity.
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Warchild
Parking Attendant
Rapin' Asphalt
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posted October 10, 2006 07:56 AM
Edited By: Warchild on 10 Oct 2006 08:58
quote:
All HID Xenon light bulbs have initial warm-up time.
Most definitely.
However, in my experience having used these system since 1999 in many different bikes, the warm-up time really isn't all that noticable except for the initial lightoff.... where it does take a good 4 or 5-ish seconds (+/-) to come up to full brightness.
However, once they are up to temp, switching back/forth from high-beam to low beam shows there is very little time to full brightness, more on the order of 1-2 seconds, thereabouts.
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- Warchild
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fastestbusaaround
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted October 10, 2006 10:31 PM
quote:
quote:
You may be better off puting some high quality halogen bulbs, such as PIAA 4000K, back to the high beams projectors. This would restore you stock high beams and would aslo eliminate the warm-up delay the HID's have each time you turn them on. In fact, most of the cars that come with factory HID lights use standard halogen high beam.
Warm up time?...boy you guys must be talking about some serious low grade "HID" kits.
You obviously have no clue what you're talking about and every time you post, you're just showing how little you really do know...
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FYYFF!!!
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