Gabe
Parking Attendant
Posts: 29
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posted April 13, 2009 10:17 AM
 Edited By: Gabe on 13 Apr 2009 18:18
quote:
quote:
I guess the GOP way to do things would have been to drop atom bombs on all of Somalia, occupy it for 8 years, spend a trillion dollars, kill 250,000 Somalis and 5000 Americans and declare victory?
it would be hard to argue that the piracy problem would not be solved, let alone eradicated (or "irradiated"  ) in the above mentioned scenario 
Are you sure? The reason the pirates are there is because Somalia has been devastated by war, hunger and disease and has no functioning government. I guess you could kill every single person there. That's called "genocide." Of course, the great Ronald Reagan proposed the same thing for Vietnam in 1967, so again, your Final Solution for the piracy problem would be in line with mainstream GOP thought.
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fish_antlers
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posted April 13, 2009 10:23 AM
Edited By: fish_antlers on 13 Apr 2009 18:28
Like I said, I agree that turning the place into a sheet of glass would pretty much get rid of all the pirates...
However, it's only called genocide if you're not on board with the program... I don't remember Hiroshima and Nagasaki being classified as genocide, nor the countless other military intrusions every world's militaries perpetrate every day. What about native americans? what about tibet... what about..... the list can go on and on... from every side of the table...
Genocide is just marketing speak... rebranding the whole war thing to spin it for the winning team to vilify the loser - that is... whoever the winning team is that day.
Here's a compelling topic in the smack house...
http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=2&TID=46398&set_time=
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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Gabe
Parking Attendant
Posts: 29
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posted April 13, 2009 10:58 AM
quote:
Like I said, I agree that turning the place into a sheet of glass would pretty much get rid of all the pirates...
However, it's only called genocide if you're not on board with the program... I don't remember Hiroshima and Nagasaki being classified as genocide, nor the countless other military intrusions every world's militaries perpetrate every day. What about native americans? what about tibet... what about..... the list can go on and on... from every side of the table...
Genocide is just marketing speak... rebranding the whole war thing to spin it for the winning team to vilify the loser - that is... whoever the winning team is that day.
"Genocide" is a legal term of art, like "murder" or "theft." It's not open to interpretation, except to people who want to bend the law, like Slobidan Milosivich or Pol Pot.
From the international convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Genocide:
"Article II: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group..."
Explain to me how "turning the place into a sheet of glass" wouldn't cause the destruction, in whole or part of a national (the Somali people) group?
I think the main problem with your argument is that you seem to believe that as long as you win you can do whatever you want. This kind of thuggish realpolitik is not the kind of foreign policy I want for the world I live in. You want to kill a million people because 4 idiots took a single American hostage? How would you explain that to your kids?
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fish_antlers
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posted April 13, 2009 11:16 AM
Edited By: fish_antlers on 13 Apr 2009 19:35
quote:
"Genocide" is a legal term of art, like "murder" or "theft." It's not open to interpretation, except to people who want to bend the law, like Slobidan Milosivich or Pol Pot.
From the international convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Genocide:
"Article II: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group..."
Explain to me how "turning the place into a sheet of glass" wouldn't cause the destruction, in whole or part of a national (the Somali people) group?
I believe I'm repeating myself, but it wouldn't be classified as Genocide, just like Hiroshima and Nagasaki weren't classified as Genocide since it would be instigated by the US who theoretically represents the "forces of good"
I can cite other examples... say the systematic eradication of the Native American Indian... The internment in concentration camps and execution of Palestinians... there are lots of examples, and as I stated before, it's only Genocide if the winning team declares it to be Genocide...
The winning team usually just calls the other team sore losers and says "too bad" .. now we've got all your land and all your wimin.
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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Gabe
Parking Attendant
Posts: 29
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posted April 13, 2009 12:37 PM
quote:
I believe I'm repeating myself, but it wouldn't be classified as Genocide, just like Hiroshima and Nagasaki weren't classified as Genocide since it would be instigated by the US who theoretically represents the "forces of good"
I can cite other examples... say the systematic eradication of the Native American Indian... The internment in concentration camps and execution of Palestinians... there are lots of examples, and as I stated before, it's only Genocide if the winning team declares it to be Genocide...
Like I said, genocide is a legal term, not a matter of opinion. Was Hiroshima/Nagasaki a genocidal act? Yes, if the goal was to kill everybody in Japan. BUt the goal of those bombings was to end the war because the Japanese wouldn't surrender. Native Americans? Possibly yes, although if I was the defense attorney I would argue that it wasn't coordinated and systematic. "Internment in concentration camps and execution of Palestinians"? Possibly, if there was any truth to the loaded language you're using, which is a whole other issue.
What you said was, "However, it's only called genocide if you're not on board with the program." So are you trying to say that if the Nazis won what they did was okay? Or because Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot when unpunished for their butchery that it was okay? Since the US represents the "forces of good" it's okay to drop atom bombs on whomever we please?
I'm through responding to you on this, but any sane and rational person would recoil at your bizzare argument.
Fact: Setting policy to exterminate an entire nation is genocide (under international law even making plans to do this is genocide). What you proposed is genocide. It's not marketing or opinion, but cold hard fact and logic. Just because injustices go unpunished and uncorrected doesn't make them just.
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fish_antlers
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posted April 13, 2009 12:47 PM
quote:
quote:
I believe I'm repeating myself, but it wouldn't be classified as Genocide, just like Hiroshima and Nagasaki weren't classified as Genocide since it would be instigated by the US who theoretically represents the "forces of good"
I can cite other examples... say the systematic eradication of the Native American Indian... The internment in concentration camps and execution of Palestinians... there are lots of examples, and as I stated before, it's only Genocide if the winning team declares it to be Genocide...
Like I said, genocide is a legal term, not a matter of opinion. Was Hiroshima/Nagasaki a genocidal act? Yes, if the goal was to kill everybody in Japan. BUt the goal of those bombings was to end the war because the Japanese wouldn't surrender. Native Americans? Possibly yes, although if I was the defense attorney I would argue that it wasn't coordinated and systematic. "Internment in concentration camps and execution of Palestinians"? Possibly, if there was any truth to the loaded language you're using, which is a whole other issue.
What you said was, "However, it's only called genocide if you're not on board with the program." So are you trying to say that if the Nazis won what they did was okay? Or because Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot when unpunished for their butchery that it was okay? Since the US represents the "forces of good" it's okay to drop atom bombs on whomever we please?
I'm through responding to you on this, but any sane and rational person would recoil at your bizzare argument.
Fact: Setting policy to exterminate an entire nation is genocide (under international law even making plans to do this is genocide). What you proposed is genocide. It's not marketing or opinion, but cold hard fact and logic. Just because injustices go unpunished and uncorrected doesn't make them just.
you're spinning it to justify your point, and I don't think any "sane person" would find any issue with what I'm stating, since I'm stating nothing but obvious fact... countries and societies brand their actions to serve their political purposes. It's convenient rhetoric to suggest that nuking two cities in Japan was not genocide because it was in fact for the "greater good" ... the same argument could have been made by Hitler or anyone else for that matter... it just depends on what side of the fence you're sitting on at the time. I'm sure the Nazis were patting themselves on the back for a job well done.
personally, I don't buy it.. it's all murder and hypocrisy no matter how you slice it... from the Nazi's butchering the Jews, to the Israelis butchering the Palestinians... to the Palestinians butchering the Israelis ... apparently everyone has a good reason why their brand of genocide isnt genocide, it's something else.. . like ethnic cleansing, or insurgency, or pick a hundred other names marketers have come up with to call murder - something else so that everyone feels better about it at the end of the day.
I dont put a different value on someone's life because they're japanese, somali, iranian or american... they're all people and if you nuke them, slice them, dice them, shoot them in the head and dump them in a pit, it's still murder.
spin that one away.
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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Gabe
Parking Attendant
Posts: 29
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posted April 13, 2009 01:34 PM
Can we all keep in mind that YOU'RE the one who propsed the murder of everybody in Somalia, not me:
"it would be hard to argue that the piracy problem would not be solved, let alone eradicated (or "irradiated" ) in the above mentioned scenario"
quote:
quote:
quote:
I believe I'm repeating myself, but it wouldn't be classified as Genocide, just like Hiroshima and Nagasaki weren't classified as Genocide since it would be instigated by the US who theoretically represents the "forces of good"
I can cite other examples... say the systematic eradication of the Native American Indian... The internment in concentration camps and execution of Palestinians... there are lots of examples, and as I stated before, it's only Genocide if the winning team declares it to be Genocide...
Like I said, genocide is a legal term, not a matter of opinion. Was Hiroshima/Nagasaki a genocidal act? Yes, if the goal was to kill everybody in Japan. BUt the goal of those bombings was to end the war because the Japanese wouldn't surrender. Native Americans? Possibly yes, although if I was the defense attorney I would argue that it wasn't coordinated and systematic. "Internment in concentration camps and execution of Palestinians"? Possibly, if there was any truth to the loaded language you're using, which is a whole other issue.
What you said was, "However, it's only called genocide if you're not on board with the program." So are you trying to say that if the Nazis won what they did was okay? Or because Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot when unpunished for their butchery that it was okay? Since the US represents the "forces of good" it's okay to drop atom bombs on whomever we please?
I'm through responding to you on this, but any sane and rational person would recoil at your bizzare argument.
Fact: Setting policy to exterminate an entire nation is genocide (under international law even making plans to do this is genocide). What you proposed is genocide. It's not marketing or opinion, but cold hard fact and logic. Just because injustices go unpunished and uncorrected doesn't make them just.
you're spinning it to justify your point, and I don't think any "sane person" would find any issue with what I'm stating, since I'm stating nothing but obvious fact... countries and societies brand their actions to serve their political purposes. It's convenient rhetoric to suggest that nuking two cities in Japan was not genocide because it was in fact for the "greater good" ... the same argument could have been made by Hitler or anyone else for that matter... it just depends on what side of the fence you're sitting on at the time. I'm sure the Nazis were patting themselves on the back for a job well done.
personally, I don't buy it.. it's all murder and hypocrisy no matter how you slice it... from the Nazi's butchering the Jews, to the Israelis butchering the Palestinians... to the Palestinians butchering the Israelis ... apparently everyone has a good reason why their brand of genocide isnt genocide, it's something else.. . like ethnic cleansing, or insurgency, or pick a hundred other names marketers have come up with to call murder - something else so that everyone feels better about it at the end of the day.
I dont put a different value on someone's life because they're japanese, somali, iranian or american... they're all people and if you nuke them, slice them, dice them, shoot them in the head and dump them in a pit, it's still murder.
spin that one away.
____________
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Douglas Home
Zone Head
Posts: 710
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posted April 13, 2009 01:47 PM
Why cant we all have different Gods and not kill each other because of it??? Peace and fast bikes is all the world needs.
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Doug Mackay Australia
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fish_antlers
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posted April 13, 2009 01:48 PM
Edited By: fish_antlers on 13 Apr 2009 21:49
uh... uh... no, you suggested it... I only agreed that it would solve the problem ASAP...
you said:
quote:
I guess the GOP way to do things would have been to drop atom bombs on all of Somalia, occupy it for 8 years, spend a trillion dollars, kill 250,000 Somalis and 5000 Americans and declare victory?
to which i replied
quote:
it would be hard to argue that the piracy problem would not be solved, let alone eradicated (or "irradiated" ) in the above mentioned scenario
clearly you're so overtaken with the concept of nuking somalia that you've forgotten that you even suggested it in the first place! crazy with power, you've gone!
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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davej
Expert Class
Posts: 451
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posted April 13, 2009 02:40 PM
Anyone care to hear about my scooter?
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Triumph guy
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smokehouse4444
Zone Head
XX to ZX
Posts: 648
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posted April 13, 2009 02:43 PM
 I would, I would!
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2005 Ducati 999 with all the goodies
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Stalwart
Needs a job
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posted April 13, 2009 02:47 PM
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Stuart
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Ridin' the Trump train.
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Gabe
Parking Attendant
Posts: 29
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posted April 13, 2009 02:52 PM
It's hardly the scooter that's gay!
quote:
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smokehouse4444
Zone Head
XX to ZX
Posts: 648
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posted April 13, 2009 03:04 PM
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2008 Atomic Silver ZX-14, Brock's this and that, some other stuff, 260 in full gear, powered by Cheese
2005 Ducati 999 with all the goodies
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fish_antlers
Administrator
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posted April 13, 2009 03:09 PM
poor poor Stalwart 
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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Stalwart
Needs a job
Posts: 3357
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posted April 13, 2009 03:18 PM
Hey, you loaned me those stockings!
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Stuart
________________________________
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Flyboy
Pro
Posts: 1536
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posted April 13, 2009 03:32 PM
Why is this in the ZX14 forum?
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One fast red ZX-14,
Three World and four National Land Speed Records,
One faster red and white Cessna Turbo 210
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fish_antlers
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posted April 13, 2009 03:35 PM
it's in several forums... although, admittedly it's leaning towards smackhouse material now  ... I may ask freek to pull out the non scooter bits and dump them there.
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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davej
Expert Class
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posted April 13, 2009 04:25 PM
quote:
Dude that is not my ride.
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Triumph guy
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ZX11D
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Internet Police
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posted April 14, 2009 04:06 PM
OK Stalwart, I see your point  ................but I still like scooters 
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'94 ZX-11
'07 ZX-14
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salsa1
Needs a life
Posts: 5971
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posted April 14, 2009 06:11 PM
Make my scooter one with at least 25 hp...40 hp would be even better.....60 mpg would be economical enough for my needs.... 
Hey........how about the first hybrid scooter??? someone out there is working on it as I speak....
I like scooters;... I think they are cool.... 
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Salsa1
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SteveWFL
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted April 19, 2009 05:49 PM
quote:
Make my scooter one with at least 25 hp...40 hp would be even better.....60 mpg would be economical enough for my needs....
Hey........how about the first hybrid scooter??? someone out there is working on it as I speak....
I like scooters;... I think they are cool....
Ninja 250
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2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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salsa1
Needs a life
Posts: 5971
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posted April 20, 2009 06:11 PM
Edited By: salsa1 on 21 Apr 2009 02:15
quote:
quote:Make my scooter one with at least 25 hp...40 hp would be even better.....60 mpg would be economical enough for my needs....
Hey........how about the first hybrid scooter??? someone out there is working on it as I speak....
I like scooters;... I think they are cool....
Ninja 250
A Ninja 250 would work.....a Ninja 250 two stroke even better...
bring back the 1970's
A buddy just got his old 1974 Yamaha 125RD back from his sister...haha....little 125 RD two stroke is in excellent shape....6000 miles....rated at 17 hp... little bugger has a top speed of 79 mph.....stock...
I want it just for the memories.....my first bike was a 1973 Yamaha 100 two stroke twin almost like it......the stories at 16 including a bad wreck with it are unforgettable..
whooops....sTaY On ToPiC sTeFwFl..
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Salsa1
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