Jake the Snake
Parking Attendant
Posts: 17
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posted October 10, 2010 03:04 PM
Obama's boys ain't so dumb after all, They had the hp taken outta the bike so all you wankers would no kill yourselfs on it..
  
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted October 10, 2010 04:57 PM
quote:
quote:
so who;s buying one?
CAN BE FIX,
NO PROBLEM
The lack of torque is no problem, since its 150 lbs lighter than a 14.
95 % chance I WILL be BUYING a 2011 ZX10
Did it get the lever valvetrain? I missed that information.
Have they released prices yet?
No .. Still buckets .. Bigger buckets but still buckets ..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted October 10, 2010 04:59 PM
Big Buckets are good...with these buckets you can run HUGE cams. 
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hyper12r
Expert Class
Posts: 119
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posted October 10, 2010 09:23 PM
 Edited By: hyper12r on 11 Oct 2010 05:31
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SteveWFL
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted October 11, 2010 05:46 AM
quote:
I know they've been SLIGHTLY detuning US bikes over the last few years, but 22HP??? and 2k rpm??? thats ridiculous  I think the time is very near where we're going to see big changes in the bikes we're allowed to ride, and not for the better  It really seems to be changing fast...the old snowball effect 
And 14,799 bucks for the 10? You can get the bmw for that price. I thought kawi was going to try and come in under bmw a little pricewise? Not so sure about the 10 after hearing this new info. It may be a tougher year for them, at least in the US, then I thought 
Is the BMW drastically "detuned" ?
____________
2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted October 11, 2010 07:03 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 11 Oct 2010 15:05
quote:
I know they've been SLIGHTLY detuning US bikes over the last few years, but 22HP??? and 2k rpm????
Does anyone read these threads? Nowhere does it say the bike has lost 2k rpm...the peak power occurs 2k rpm lower. Big difference.
For all we know at this point, a fix could be $100. Anyone who is serious about going fast on this bike will still buy it, I'm sure....
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SteveWFL
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted October 11, 2010 08:27 AM
before this press release i was betting that Kawi would bring us an out of the box bike in the USA that would slam the BMW....THE bike for 2011.
Guess we'll watch the euro shoot-outs and see bike for bike
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2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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Ricksgsxr
Zone Head
Posts: 511
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posted October 11, 2010 01:49 PM
Not griping just saying..the gas tank appears to be two parts? with Black being the tank and green being a false tank? whatever it is the green part looks like a frame spar to me.
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SteveWFL
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted October 11, 2010 02:03 PM
griping about Kawi's gets the flames around here. Kawi is perfect in every way, just ask anyone on this forum 
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2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted October 11, 2010 02:03 PM
quote:
quote:
I know they've been SLIGHTLY detuning US bikes over the last few years, but 22HP??? and 2k rpm????
Does anyone read these threads? Nowhere does it say the bike has lost 2k rpm...the peak power occurs 2k rpm lower. Big difference.
For all we know at this point, a fix could be $100. Anyone who is serious about going fast on this bike will still buy it, I'm sure....
Um, well I was serious, but I wanted the potential development of the variable fulcrum valvetrain.
I would rather buy the right bike and own it for 4-5 yrs before upgrading again.
Especially at $15,000 bike.
I will probably buy a used second zx14, or busa for $6000, and have fun with it instead.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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SteveWFL
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted October 11, 2010 02:04 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
I know they've been SLIGHTLY detuning US bikes over the last few years, but 22HP??? and 2k rpm????
Does anyone read these threads? Nowhere does it say the bike has lost 2k rpm...the peak power occurs 2k rpm lower. Big difference.
For all we know at this point, a fix could be $100. Anyone who is serious about going fast on this bike will still buy it, I'm sure....
Um, well I was serious, but I wanted the potential development of the variable fulcrum valvetrain.
I would rather buy the right bike and own it for 4-5 yrs before upgrading again.
Especially at $15,000 bike.
I will probably buy a used second zx14, or busa for $6000, and have fun with it instead.
used to be the jap bikes were a bargain in comparison!
____________
2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted October 11, 2010 02:15 PM
Big buckets on a cam can not spin the valves open as fast as a fulcrum valvetrain, and do not have the hydraulic variable timing,
No bucket and shim can turn on a rectangular cam lobe, but a fulcrum can nearly take it to the pneumatic valve actuation of F1 cars!
That would be the ideal cam shape to throw a valve open and closed without a ramp!
My point is I don't like the 5 hp / yr development game.
I don't buy a new bike every year, so when i do buy one, I want the bike with potential to make the MOST hp. So far it still seem to be the BMW has the most potential with its engine design.
Its all speculation and hype for now,
but in the mean time I still dislike a cock tease as much as i always have...
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted October 11, 2010 02:25 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 11 Oct 2010 22:26
Well, you should definitely avoid this generation of 10R...
The reality is that most of the development and tech is currently with standard valvetrains. Maybe years down the line that will change...
The good news is that, out-of-the-box, this 10R can utilize aggressive cams...in fact, .400 lift is pretty stout. I had to buy a Busa cylinder head and rob the buckets, and will have to pay hundreds to have the 14 head machined....just to do what this 10R already can do.
.400 lift is about the max on stock 14 buckets. But the 10R buckets will support .450 lift easily.
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted October 11, 2010 02:31 PM
yeah, i never believed the big bang elctric idle motor bullshit, but I was biting on the new valvetrain.
Oh well.
Where are you getting the valve lift numbers?
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted October 11, 2010 02:50 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 11 Oct 2010 23:02
Y2k Jim said .400 lift...the article I read said +.6mm compared to the prior bike. That equates to an increase of .0236 in lift...pretty significant. I will see if I can find the specs on last year's cams.
The bike has 29 mm buckets, as quoted by Cycle World. The Busa buckets are smaller than these. I have a set of .445/.415 cams for ZX-14 that will work reliably with the Busa buckets. So, that gives you an idea of just how stout the valvetrain seems to be on this new bike. Also, the throttle bodies are an impressive 47 mm. The ZX-14 has 44mm units. I am paying hundreds to have my 14 throttle bodies increased to 47 mm...the stock size on this new 1000! Overall I like the direction Kaw has taken here.... utilizing proven tech that the aftermarket can take advantage of immediately.
On a diffferent note, I think the 08-10 bikes look better. I really hate the sharp-edged Transformers-inspired looks of the new bike. That windshield is not only hideous, but it looks very bad aero-wise as well.
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted October 11, 2010 03:16 PM
The 08-10R already was impressive when uncorked, and would spank a 14 owner if he couldn't ride.
the body will grow on everyone, just like the 14 did.
wheras the BMW really is ugly.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted October 11, 2010 04:03 PM
I like the looks .. Not real crazy about any liter bike for drag racing .. I wounder if the new zx10 throttle bodys will fit the zx14 ? If they do it's Ebay time !!!!
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted October 12, 2010 06:31 AM
I am considering it for my next street / highway burner
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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splat
Parking Attendant
Posts: 21
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posted October 12, 2010 10:09 AM
Maybe this will help?
http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news/official-2011-kawasaki-zx-10r-gets-lower-redline/
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21894
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posted October 12, 2010 10:14 AM
how does that link help? it's a rehash of our exclusive story that you're posting in.
wasted click.
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted October 12, 2010 10:18 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 12 Oct 2010 19:21
quote:
Maybe this will help?
http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news/official-2011-kawasaki-zx-10r-gets-lower-redline
That link has the actual change to the redline....750 rpm.
quote:
The result is that the 2011 Kawasaki ZX-10R passes the Euro III standards, but fails the EPA standards in its unadulterated form. To come into compliance with the EPA’s Noise Control Act, Kawasaki has lowered the rev-limit on the 2011 Kawasaki ZX-10R by 750 rpm in order to meet the new criteria. The byproduct of lowering the rev-limiter will reduce the new ZX-10R’s maximum power output, but Kawasaki isn’t saying by how much.
Kawasaki says its the redline for American 2011 Kawasaki ZX-10R’s will be 13,750 rpm
13750 is apparently the redline for US models...that's a lot better than was initially thought.
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21894
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posted October 12, 2010 11:35 AM
What that link claims and what kaki states in their marketing material are two different things - I'm waiting to see the real thing. Can't trust no one .
I love how they call our report direct from the dealer show a "rumor". Lol!
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted October 12, 2010 11:36 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 12 Oct 2010 19:47
Were you at the dealer show? Did you ask about the actual redline of the USA bikes? Are you saying it isn't 13750 rpm? Are you saying the 750 rpm lower than the UK figure is inaccurate?
Can you check with your sources and verify the actual redline of the USA bikes?
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21894
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posted October 12, 2010 08:07 PM
I can do that.
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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TurboBike
Expert Class
Posts: 121
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posted October 20, 2010 06:16 PM
quote:
quote:
That must be one hell of a 14 you have. You should bring it to the track some time  .
The advantage the 14 has is tons of low end TQ. Unless the BMW is running at high RPM most of the time, the ZX will pull it on roll-ons all day long at most speeds. Add a few mods to the sprockets on the 14 and the BM's toast.
Well we thought the low-end tq would be an advantage too especially in the cellar but it doesn't seem to matter. The transmission gearing on the litre bikes are lower than the big bore bikes so that will always play a part in the acceleration department.
We did a little comparison a few weeks ago. Don't make a scene on the dyno #s as they may seem low to most on this site. Dyno was a Dynojet 200 with all the updated parts. All dyno #s mentioned are SAE.
The players:
2008 Kawasaki ZX14, Yoshimura Full Exhaust, No flies, BMC Race Air Filter, PCIII USB,
-1/+2 sprockets>>>Tuned to 178hp
Rider weight = 205 w/Riding jacket
2010 BMW S1000RR, Akrapovic Full Exhaust w/longest canister, BMC Race Air Filter, PCV,
-1/+2 sprockets>>>Tuned to 183hp
Rider weight = 270lbs w/Mesh Riding Jacket
The first run we did a 2nd gear roll-on speed of about 60mph where the ZX14 was at about 5.5k rpms and the BMW was at about 7.5k rpms.(don't remember exactly on the BMW but we tested based off of the ZX14). The BMW did the arm drop and the BMW pulled immediately and up to the shift of 6th gear had the BMW by about 3-3.5 bike lengths.
The second run we did a 2nd gear roll-on with a speed of about 35-40mph where the ZX14 was at 2k rpms and the BMW was at about 4-4.5k rpms. The ZX14 performed the arm drop this time and initially pulled about by a wheel but once the BMW swung up to about 9k the BMW pulled and was ahead by about 1 bike by the next shift into 3rd.. Once the BMW shifted into 4th the BMW no longer pulled more than 3 bikes. Once in 6th the BMW still had the ZX14 by 3 bikes. The aeros of the big rider were probably the reason the bike no longer made anymore gains oonce in 4th gear at over 120mph.
Just an FYI. There have been several ZX14s on this same dyno with either a Muzzy full system or a system with an Orient Express header and a slash cut tip. None of them made more than 169hp on a tune. All had flies removed and had the BMC filter or stock filter on one. So this ZX14 is one of the best running ones out here.
Note: The ZX14 with the most HP was running a standard Bridgestone tire on the dyno and on the road. The next best ZX14 was on a normal street tire as well but do not recall which one. 2 others were on Shinkos and registered the lowest HP #s. Of course the BMW was on the factory tire as well. Just in case everyone chimes in on the dyno #s.
With all of this test information, go ahead and tear it apart and call me a liar.
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RACE WHAT YOU BRUNG AND HOPE YOU BRUNG ENUFF
!!!!
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