posted September 05, 2006 11:38 AM
Traction control or "engine management" What's the politcally correct term these days?
____________ What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
posted September 05, 2006 04:36 PM
Since it's "legal" now, it would be simply "Traction Control". It does not have to be hidden with the former politically correct "engine management".
posted September 05, 2006 09:46 PM
has it transfered itself to the street in any production models yet? is that the next logical step?
____________ What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
posted September 07, 2006 08:17 AM
The problem with telling street riders that they have 'traction control' is that they will act like they now have an electronic safety net. Motorcycle 'traction control' cannot stop every type of traction loss (debris, oil, excessive speed, front traction loss) and cannot magically erect a falling motorcycle.
Everyone already complains about the 14 being soft in the lower gears and tries to circumvent a mechanism designed to enhance low speed grip. Traction control is better used by, and better appreciated by racers.
quote: Traction control is better used by, and better appreciated by racers.
when you say "appreciated", I'm sure you mean by those who have the fortune of having their engines "managed" vs those who dont.
No, I mean appreciated by the guy who can now just run the bike pinned through stuff that used to require manual traction management.
Those riders feel 'sympathy' for the poor saps that lack the magical TC.
It's worse because only the factories can afford it or have the expertise to develop it. If we raced the same motorcycle for more than 1 year, private teams would be able to buy stand-alone systems and develop them over 2-3 seasons.
I hope Yamaha hands Suzuki their TC ass next year
posted September 16, 2006 08:13 PM
Better. You'll see less tire failures/wear and less high-sides. It will make the sport safer and faster at the same time. Of course it's the factories who can afford it currently. That is simply the way almost all forward thinking technology is born from. Eventually, it will make it's way down to production bikes and/or privateers (hopefully). Racing won't ever be cheap. So if something of this nature was available for $18k, and you had a rider and tuner/team capable of exploiting it's benefits, that's a bargin in the overall scheme of racing expenses. Anyway, it means even more powerfull production bikes that can be more readily ridden to their limits. I'm talking about roadrace and/or canyon carving. But then again, perhaps there are some viable benefits on some classes of drag racing as well.
There is a lot of misundering about traction control. It has such a huge amount of tuneability. But it isn't completely a magical device for WFO coming out of a corner. If it was, you wouldn't still be seeing Motogp and/or Superbikes lighting up their tires on corner exits and/or still high-siding themselves into orbit (although we see less of that than ever before). Many are activated via different mapping with switches on the controls. Some by gear selection. I would imagine unless some limits/regulations are put in place, they may (if not already done) be actively controled via pit crews. As fuel loads, track conditions, tire conditions, suspention degrades/change during the course of a race, tuners can make changes actively.
Once again, I just can't imagine technology like this wouldn't be "better" on a whole for our sport.
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posted September 17, 2006 05:39 AM
Wonder what the percentage of street rider wrecks are because of loss of traction at the rear tire, versus the front? 10 percent rear, 90 percent front? I think most riders would be better served with ABS.
____________
82 Gpz750, 84 Ninja 900, 2000 ZX12R (Muzzy Big Bore Kit), *another* 2000 ZX12R (Muzzy custom stroke crank 1341cc motor), 2004 ZZR1200, 2005 ZX10R, 2007 ZX14, 2008 Concours 14, 2014 Versys 650, 2014 Yamaha WR450F, 2015 Ninja H2
posted September 17, 2006 10:14 AM
hmm.... good question... and how "delicate" is the traction control? I know on my 2007 Toyota FJ Cruiser, the traction control kicks in regularly on wet / slick pavement, but it's hardly "eligant" to say the least... you can hear the relay under the dash clicking on and off and feel the wheel spin being modulated... dont know if the toyota is cutting power at the differential, the transfer case or at the engine... although (thinking out loud as I type) it must be at the diff as it can cut one or both wheels I'm thinking?
I could hardly see a system like an automotive type system in place on a sportbike, with it going "ka-thunk ka-thunk" as it chopped power to the rear wheel...
someone edjumacate me.
____________ What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
quote:Wonder what the percentage of street rider wrecks are because of loss of traction at the rear tire, versus the front? 10 percent rear, 90 percent front? I think most riders would be better served with ABS.
Where I ride, it's close to 50/50. The front end tucks that I see are almost always caused by braking and the rider simply not having enough feel (ie: skill) to let off, counter steer, alter line, etc.
The rear end losses that I see are from loss of traction and mostly over-correction of the rider (again, skill level). They slide, whack the throttle closed, straighten up and run out of road.....
quote:The rear end losses that I see are from loss of traction and mostly over-correction of the rider (again, skill level). They slide, whack the throttle closed, straighten up and run out of road.....
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posted September 18, 2006 06:19 AM
There ya go. The only time I ever lost the rear of a bike was on the racetrack. Came into turn 2/3 HARD at SRP. Squooshed the suspension down in a curve with a ton of positive camber, then spun up the back tire coming out of it. Bike swapped ends and I went off the track up the hill backwards, still smoking the back tire. ____________
82 Gpz750, 84 Ninja 900, 2000 ZX12R (Muzzy Big Bore Kit), *another* 2000 ZX12R (Muzzy custom stroke crank 1341cc motor), 2004 ZZR1200, 2005 ZX10R, 2007 ZX14, 2008 Concours 14, 2014 Versys 650, 2014 Yamaha WR450F, 2015 Ninja H2
quote:The rear end losses that I see are from loss of traction and mostly over-correction of the rider (again, skill level). They slide, whack the throttle closed, straighten up and run out of road.....
or highside! LOL
As odd as it may seem, I've never seen one guy highside on the street (which of course is almost the complete opposite on the racetrack) from the same action. And I've probably seen more crashes on the street than most people. Come to think of it, I've probably seen more crashes on the track than most as well.... It's actually pretty easy to figure out why - "most" street riders when they "slide", are only slightly losing traction for an instant. And when they do, it's very rare they stay in the throttle and/or keep it leaned over. And they react just as instantly by chopping the throttle and straightening up. The problem is that they have no roadway to work with in a single lane and therefore run out of room.... A real highside, at least where I like to ride, would have very dire consiquences...
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posted September 18, 2006 11:48 AM
Exactly! Totally agree. I think the biggest oopsie I've had on the street was locking up the front tire in the rain on my 12R. The bike was nosing over and I kept telling myself "let...go...of...the...brake!" I did, and it snapped right back up no problem. Just like a good gyroscope should! ____________
82 Gpz750, 84 Ninja 900, 2000 ZX12R (Muzzy Big Bore Kit), *another* 2000 ZX12R (Muzzy custom stroke crank 1341cc motor), 2004 ZZR1200, 2005 ZX10R, 2007 ZX14, 2008 Concours 14, 2014 Versys 650, 2014 Yamaha WR450F, 2015 Ninja H2
posted September 21, 2006 12:59 PM
how about call it AC or "Acceleration Control". After all that is what it is. Traction control implies one has/gets better traction. Everyone knows that the best traction is at a 7--10% incipient spin or lock up. (most don't). That is very difficult to manage on two wheels. ABS can't achieve it on braking and engine management or traction control can't control it on acceleration. No thanks, just give me the unadulterated version on the bike, no holding back, like the original pre-production 12 was supposed to be. Unfortunately the manufactures have to make bikes for the lowest common denominator don't they......................
posted September 22, 2006 07:12 AM
Yah right.................
____________
everytime man makes something idiot proof, God makes a better idiot............
posted September 23, 2006 02:08 AM
I've heard the new Gxr1000 has a Sport mode, normal, and rain mode switch right on the handlebar for 07
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posted September 23, 2006 04:08 PM
Is the throttle fly by wire....
____________
everytime man makes something idiot proof, God makes a better idiot............
posted September 24, 2006 05:38 PM
Ten Kate finally began working on tuning a customer trac control unti, costs about $80,000 to mount on their Superbikes(2+2back-up bikes) and has 18 levels of adjustment, all just to finish the last few races of the season and get a start developing next years deal. Toseland is thinking about running without it though because he's gotten so familiar without and doesn't need to try to relearn and rely on something that could still fail and throw him this late in the season.
BMW is releasing some type of all control thing, ABS, anti-wheelie, trac-control, all in one system that benifits riding in the rain and gravel thrown on pavement situations. Apparently it lacks feel and makes riding a boring bike even more boring but safer. There's BMW for ya.
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posted September 25, 2006 12:47 PM
I think trac-control creates anti-wheelie if it's driven from the front/rear wheel differences, when you accelerate to bring up the front the back wheel speeds up and as soon as the front breaks contact from the ground it starts slowing compared to the accelerating rear so it'll back off the ignition and if necessary the fuel.
I think BMW's system has an off switch like some racers.
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