Rook
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Posts: 1125
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posted June 19, 2013 08:15 PM
NOS questions
I already know turbo would be better because it never needs to be refilled.
Nitrous is a bit cheaper. I estimate a nice system and a progressive controller might be had for under 2 grand. Maybe under a 1000 if I go with a DynoTune system and forgo the controller for a while.
Question #1 Dry or wet?
Dry nitrous is 100% N2o spray, bike is mapped to add fuel in the T-bodies via increased injector volume.
Wet Nitrus is N20 that sprays premixed with proper proportion of fuel.
Pro/Con: Dry system v wet installed to the 2008 ZX-14?
(many more questions to come.)
  
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1badzx12r
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posted June 20, 2013 04:03 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3XeLiuE_rA
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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krexken
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posted June 20, 2013 08:00 AM
Depends on how much power you'd like to add. If you just want a little extra punch, the simplicity of a dry system is great.
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BlackMagic14
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posted June 20, 2013 01:43 PM
Get with gix1300r over on psychobike. I paid 650 for a complete dry nitrous kit with his spray bar a 2.5lb bottle and an NOS mini controller with all lines and fittings. Installed it my self and had it tuned was still under 1000
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cliffrandall
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posted June 20, 2013 03:04 PM
 Edited By: cliffrandall on 20 Jun 2013 23:56
Muzzy dry n2o kit with a PC5 map switch - 45hp rwhp.....Flawless.
Cliff
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dakota9498
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posted June 20, 2013 04:38 PM
quote:
Muzzy dry n2o kit with a PC5 map switch - 45hp rwhp.....Flawless.
Cliff
Muzzy, blah blah, Muzzy, slurp slurp, ohhh Muzzy...
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2008 ZX14
Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. ~Mark Twain
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Seno
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BANNED FOR LIFE!
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posted June 20, 2013 05:33 PM
I am running a gix 1300 spraybar on my 14R attached to a dynotune kit with 3AN steel braided lines. I do not use it often, but when I do its pretty awesome! Wet is safer because your dumping fuel with the NOS, as opposed to dry.
Cliff I think you’re a talented guy who has a "finesse” for getting the sponsors to give you stuff. Please stop shoving your sponsors down our throat ;-) Unfortunately Muzzy is not what it used to be.... Brock is the new muzzy so to speak..
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2012 Black 14R -> Completely done!
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cliffrandall
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posted June 20, 2013 05:44 PM
quote:
I am running a gix 1300 spraybar on my 14R attached to a dynotune kit with 3AN steel braided lines. I do not use it often, but when I do its pretty awesome! Wet is safer because your dumping fuel with the NOS, as opposed to dry.
Cliff I think you’re a talented guy who has a "finesse” for getting the sponsors to give you stuff. Please stop shoving your sponsors down our throat ;-) Unfortunately Muzzy is not what it used to be.... Brock is the new muzzy so to speak..
I just call em as I see em brother - tried and true for the world to see......Muzzy builds great products for your 14 and the dyno proved it, or Daddy wouldn't be using them.
Cliff
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krexken
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posted June 20, 2013 06:14 PM
Yeah, Brock. Sold a friend some oil additive and oil that Brock claims is worth 14hp on the dyno. Oh yeah, he mentioned he oiled the chain also.
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Rook
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posted June 21, 2013 04:40 AM
Edited By: Rook on 21 Jun 2013 12:41
hey there 1BAD! Thanks for vid.
Hi there Seno. Thanks for explanaition. Wet is safer because your dumping fuel with the NOS, as opposed to dry.
Wet is gonna cost more. Is there any other advantage/disadvantage to a wet NOS other than safety?
and Hi rest of you guys. Thanks for responses.
krexken: "Depends on how much power you'd like to add. If you just want a little extra punch, the simplicity of a dry system is great."
So how much are we talking here? Is 50hp still in the "little extra punch" zone. One of my goals is to avoid upgrades after I have the thing installed so I don't want to go too small. Of course I want to keep the cost under about a thousand.
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krexken
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posted June 21, 2013 07:13 AM
I'm not too sure on the 14 but i'd bet 50hp would be safe. I've a friend that's been spraying about double that for a long time on his 12, dry. Now if you could buy one device that would retard timing, start the nos by tps or rpm, stop it by rpm to keep from hitting the limiter, ramp it up smoothly so you could spray in first gear and alter your map when nos is armed and you'd be all set. Don't know if such a single device exists though. I'm kinda behind the times on all the latest gadgetry.
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cliffrandall
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posted June 21, 2013 09:37 AM
Quote........."Hi there Seno. Thanks for explanaition. Wet is safer because your dumping fuel with the NOS, as opposed to dry.
Wet is gonna cost more. Is there any other advantage/disadvantage to a wet NOS other than safety?"
Just get a dry system and use your PC5 to flash a second 'richer map' when you're on juice - it's proven to be incredibly simple, bulletproof and without a doubt, the biggest bang you'll ever get for the buck!
Cliff
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1badzx12r
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posted June 21, 2013 10:14 AM
quote:
Of course I want to keep the cost under about a thousand.
then quit now while your ahead .. dry kit 300.00 engine replacement 2500.00
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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1badzx12r
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posted June 21, 2013 10:16 AM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 21 Jun 2013 18:19
quote:
use your PC5 to flash a second 'richer map' when you're on juice - it's proven to be incredibly simple, bulletproof and without a doubt, the biggest bang you'll ever get for the buck!
Cliff
who said he had a PC5
wet kit with a 5lb fuel pressure sensor .no 2nd mapping required and if the fuel not 5lbs then no spray .. bulletproof when you rule peoples out
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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cliffrandall
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posted June 21, 2013 10:33 AM
Edited By: cliffrandall on 21 Jun 2013 18:33
Quote...."who said he had a PC5"? Are you kidding?
IMO, don't mess around with any FI bike without fuel & ignition control......Otherwise, just leave it alone.
Cliff
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Rook
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posted June 21, 2013 10:58 AM
Edited By: Rook on 21 Jun 2013 18:59
quote:
I'm not too sure on the 14 but i'd bet 50hp would be safe.
I believe a 50 shot would satisfy my curiosity. An 80-100 shot would provide a nice learning curve margin for me but if 80 is too much risk on a dry system, I'm better off scaling back.
quote:
Just get a dry system and use your PC5 to flash a second 'richer map' when you're on juice - it's proven to be incredibly simple, bulletproof .
quote:
who said he had a PC5
yes, I have a PC5 in for 3 years now. The NOS map would work for me if I go with a dry system.
quote:
wet kit with a 5lb fuel pressure sensor .no 2nd mapping required and if the fuel not 5lbs then no spray .. bulletproof when you rule peoples out
...5lb must be WOT? sounds logical. I'm sure you could easily install a switch to disable NOS if you wanted WOT natural aspiration. I'm liking the intricacy of this wet system but I believe it is going to cost a bit more than I will be able to spend. If I go with a wet system, i'll take your recommendation, 1bad. (BTW, Kruz is under the impression that you owe him a lunch.)
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Rook
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posted June 21, 2013 11:14 AM
Edited By: Rook on 21 Jun 2013 19:14
Question #2 Spray bar or fog?
It seems to me a spray bar has to be much more precise and efficient than fog. However, spray bars look like they would obstruct natural aspiration, hanging over / inside the bellmouths the way they do. Will my bike still run as strong naturally aspirated as it always did....or is the spray bar going to create poor flow for Natural Aspiration?
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1badzx12r
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posted June 21, 2013 01:42 PM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 21 Jun 2013 21:52
quote:
, 1bad. (BTW, Kruz is under the impression that you owe him a lunch.)
he's nutts.. Cold Fusion sells wet kits
heres enough to build 2 kits http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nitrous-Pro-Race-Fogger-Wet-150-600-hp-Direct-Port-Carburetor-L4-Kit/200706477590?rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D261%26meid%3D8542047226102396236%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D1088%26rk%3D2%26sd%3D390605881496%26
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cliffrandall
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posted June 21, 2013 03:19 PM
Most spray bars work fine, the trick is to get the juice to the cylinder as quickly as possible - never as fast as the added fuel via a controller, which fires the fuel instantly from the injectors - to compensate, we 'ramp up' the fuel a bit to match the exponentual n2o hit, works great.
Cliff
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Rook
Pro
Posts: 1125
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posted June 21, 2013 07:11 PM
Edited By: Rook on 22 Jun 2013 03:16
quote:
heres enough to build 2 kits http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nitrous-Pro-Race-Fogger-Wet-150-600-hp-Direct-Port-Carburetor-L4-Kit/200706477590?rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D261%26meid%3D8542047226102396236%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D1088%26rk%3D2%26sd%3D390605881496%26
http://www.coldfusionnitrous.com/nitrous-systems/products/860-quad-throttle-fuel-injection-motorcycle-kit-w2lb-bottle-line-cfn-1402-efi.aspx
thanks 1bad, Looks like a wet kit can be had for less than I thought.
That Ebay system is way more hp than I even want to try. Looks like +150 ponies is the lowest boost on that one. I ned to start a little smaller than that. ...or if I only use one half of that kit, that would be + 75-300 hp, no? I could see starting with +75 hp. Might be about all I ever use.
Are you willing to nurse me through the install?
quote:
Most spray bars work fine, the trick is to get the juice to the cylinder as quickly as possible - never as fast as the added fuel via a controller, which fires the fuel instantly from the injectors - to compensate, we 'ramp up' the fuel a bit to match the exponentual n2o hit, works great.
Cliff
I can see how a spray bar system would be a lot more effective than the wholesale approach of blasting the spray in the airbox. I'm sure a spray bar is essential for wet nitrous and definitely best for dry. However, I will be running NA most of the time. I don't want to detract from my NA performance to have a nitrous system I use only on rare occasions.
Does the spray bar obstruct the flow of air from the ram air system?
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1badzx12r
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posted June 22, 2013 04:08 AM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 22 Jun 2013 12:11
quote:
Are you willing to nurse me through the install?
sure .1st thing to do is call cold fusion and put a kit together .. whatever hp you want they will sell you the fuel and N20 jets for the set-up . tell them you looking for a all steel line 4 cylinder wet kit.. but don't use their fuel pump just go to a local parts house and get 1
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cliffrandall
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posted June 22, 2013 05:47 AM
Edited By: cliffrandall on 22 Jun 2013 13:47
I can see how a spray bar system would be a lot more effective than the wholesale approach of blasting the spray in the airbox. I'm sure a spray bar is essential for wet nitrous and definitely best for dry. However, I will be running NA most of the time. I don't want to detract from my NA performance to have a nitrous system I use only on rare occasions.
Does the spray bar obstruct the flow of air from the ram air system?
No! We demonstrated that fact 'posted dyno results for your review in the HT build thread' here on 14.com......It's 2013 brother not 1999, FI motors work just fine with today's simple and inexpensive dry shot n2o systems that allow added fuel via a PC5 controller. Besides you can't intro more than a 60hp shot on your 14 (that's about 45rwhp) without motor work, or you'll fuck it up.....Forget the wet plumbing it's a pain in the ass and completely unnecessary.
Cliff
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1badzx12r
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posted June 22, 2013 06:25 AM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 22 Jun 2013 14:26
http://www.nitroustech.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-92.html
quote:
This tech article is intended for educational purposes only. My intentions in this tech article are to help you get factual information that is not based off someone’s opinions or what they prefer to use. After reading this article you should be able to make educated decisions to what best fits your needs.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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cliffrandall
Zone Head
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posted June 22, 2013 07:09 AM
Bad....Give us all a break, you don't even use n2o do you? That article is 5 yrs old and probably based on car systems from 10 yrs ago.....Advice to all internet travellers - listen to guys with proven experience in whatever product you wish to review, the rest is BS.
Cliff
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1badzx12r
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posted June 22, 2013 08:47 AM
quote:
Bad....Give us all a break, you don't even use n2o do you? That article is 5 yrs old and probably based on car systems from 10 yrs ago.....Advice to all internet travellers - listen to guys with proven experience in whatever product you wish to review, the rest is BS.
Cliff
Dyno testing ain't real world Mr $60,000.00 HT .. . hell just a zx12 I had for 3 months went thru 100lbs while I had it and I didn't ride it much . and I didn't break nothing with a 100 shot.. you try that buddy ..but I don't know nothing i'm just a dumbass with no achievements ...
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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