3000psi and falling
Zone Head
Posts: 848
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posted February 19, 2013 06:02 PM
Odd engine sound, help in diagnosing
I've noticed an odd sound coming from my bikes engine, and its got me a bit worried. At about 4k-6k rpm and light to med throttle a hear a light hollow knock, I hear it while both rolling into the throttle and rolling out of the throttle in any gear. It is in sync with engine rpm, Its not loud, but i've never noticed it in the years I've had this bike, so its a new sound.
I took a bit of oil out and looked for anything odd, and found regular clean oil.
Any thoughts? I have the manual cam chain tensioner, had it for 15k miles and regularly check its tension. I'm sure its not a loose cam chain, I know what that sounds like.
Stock motor, 30+k miles
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08 ZX14, 2010 Persimmon Red bodywork.
Flies pulled, 16-42, BMC street, 8" extensions, drag shock, cut pan, Cycle Concepts Drag Pack and springs, muzzy m14 w/ oval can, lowered, Shinco usoft rear, pcv with autotune, leightweight Shori 18ah battery, throttle meister. 500lbs at bandimeres scales with half tank of juice.
  
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joseph702
Zone Head
Posts: 598
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posted February 20, 2013 03:03 PM
Take compression test on all cylinders and go from there.
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3000psi and falling
Zone Head
Posts: 848
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posted February 20, 2013 03:33 PM
210 +- 3 psi is what im getting (warm engine).
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08 ZX14, 2010 Persimmon Red bodywork.
Flies pulled, 16-42, BMC street, 8" extensions, drag shock, cut pan, Cycle Concepts Drag Pack and springs, muzzy m14 w/ oval can, lowered, Shinco usoft rear, pcv with autotune, leightweight Shori 18ah battery, throttle meister. 500lbs at bandimeres scales with half tank of juice.
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joseph702
Zone Head
Posts: 598
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posted February 20, 2013 04:43 PM
Sounds a lil high to me , check every thing like if valves are out of tolerance a lot , or try different oil filter have had a few fuck with oil presser in the past . Look at timing chain for kinks and go down a list . Deff figure it out before its gets worse
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3000psi and falling
Zone Head
Posts: 848
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posted February 20, 2013 05:01 PM
My gauge is a cheapo, I bet its not accurate, but is reading consistant across all cyl, so thats good right?
Ill check valve lash and inspect the chain this weekend then. As for the oil filter, im using the NAPA PS ps1358, been using these for a few years, nothing new. Thanks
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08 ZX14, 2010 Persimmon Red bodywork.
Flies pulled, 16-42, BMC street, 8" extensions, drag shock, cut pan, Cycle Concepts Drag Pack and springs, muzzy m14 w/ oval can, lowered, Shinco usoft rear, pcv with autotune, leightweight Shori 18ah battery, throttle meister. 500lbs at bandimeres scales with half tank of juice.
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joseph702
Zone Head
Posts: 598
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posted February 20, 2013 06:52 PM
I had a funky knock like that and it was a spun bearing . But with ur hearing it I can't say
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted February 20, 2013 07:17 PM
30k ? Might just be carbon build up on the piston hiting the head .. it sounds just like a rod knock ... Try some top end cleaner like Brocks sells or something like it ..
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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BlackMagic14
Needs a job
Posts: 2058
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posted February 20, 2013 07:29 PM
Could your valves need adjusting
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3000psi and falling
Zone Head
Posts: 848
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posted February 20, 2013 08:02 PM
Thanks everyone, I have ran some lucas stuff through it, it says it removes carbon buildup, but I detect no change after using it all week.
All winter long ive been riding this thing to college in the freezing cold, temp gauge never gets above a bar or so, with little opertunity for wide open throttle runs, I guess carbon buildup is still possible.
This weekend ill be checking valve lash, and inspecting the cam chain.
Oddthing is it idles quiet, it also sounds great if you snap the throttle, WOT under load it sounds fine at any rpm. The only time I hear this hollow knock/rattle is while rolling into the throllte at about 4-6k and rolling out at 4-6krpm. Ill try to make a recording soon as the roads clear up, its snowing now here in denver. Oh and the chain, and sprockets are in perfect shape, so Its not coming from them.
A Big part of me wants to have to open the case up, and make a monster out of this thing.
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08 ZX14, 2010 Persimmon Red bodywork.
Flies pulled, 16-42, BMC street, 8" extensions, drag shock, cut pan, Cycle Concepts Drag Pack and springs, muzzy m14 w/ oval can, lowered, Shinco usoft rear, pcv with autotune, leightweight Shori 18ah battery, throttle meister. 500lbs at bandimeres scales with half tank of juice.
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zixxer14
Pro
Damn that was Quick
Posts: 1233
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posted February 21, 2013 06:49 AM
Could it be the cam chain tensioner dying, I replaced mine around the same mileage because it wasn't working correctly. I replaced it with an Ape manual tensioner & haven't had any noise since.
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3000psi and falling
Zone Head
Posts: 848
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posted February 21, 2013 11:27 AM
quote:
Could it be the cam chain tensioner dying, I replaced mine around the same mileage because it wasn't working correctly. I replaced it with an Ape manual tensioner & haven't had any noise since.
Already have the manual tensioner, and its not cam chain rattle, I know what that sounds like thanks to kawasaki's engineers. Thanks tho
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08 ZX14, 2010 Persimmon Red bodywork.
Flies pulled, 16-42, BMC street, 8" extensions, drag shock, cut pan, Cycle Concepts Drag Pack and springs, muzzy m14 w/ oval can, lowered, Shinco usoft rear, pcv with autotune, leightweight Shori 18ah battery, throttle meister. 500lbs at bandimeres scales with half tank of juice.
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RICH CRAFT 1
Zone Head
Posts: 681
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posted February 21, 2013 02:51 PM
I'm thinking a bad wrist pen, or a cracked piston skirt but I've never seen that on a 14, I have seen the wrist pen problem. if that's it, it's a pretty easy fix. If you have stock pistons and rods. You still have to pull the head and split the cases. It's not good if it let's go, if that's actually what is. You could pull the pan and see everything from the bottom.
Ken
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Red 06 ZX14 RR
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3000psi and falling
Zone Head
Posts: 848
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posted February 21, 2013 06:45 PM
quote:
I'm thinking a bad wrist pen, or a cracked piston skirt but I've never seen that on a 14, I have seen the wrist pen problem. if that's it, it's a pretty easy fix. If you have stock pistons and rods. You still have to pull the head and split the cases. It's not good if it let's go, if that's actually what is. You could pull the pan and see everything from the bottom.
Ken
I make that the next thing to check after I inspect the valve terrain, Thanks
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08 ZX14, 2010 Persimmon Red bodywork.
Flies pulled, 16-42, BMC street, 8" extensions, drag shock, cut pan, Cycle Concepts Drag Pack and springs, muzzy m14 w/ oval can, lowered, Shinco usoft rear, pcv with autotune, leightweight Shori 18ah battery, throttle meister. 500lbs at bandimeres scales with half tank of juice.
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Birdkillr
Parking Attendant
2012 14R heavy mod NOS
Posts: 23
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posted February 22, 2013 09:05 AM
I just had a 2012 with 20k puke #3 . Tear it down and check everything
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billeason
Zone Head
Posts: 711
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posted February 22, 2013 03:48 PM
quote:
I just had a 2012 with 20k puke #3 . Tear it down and check everything
More info / pictures please. When did it let go ? cruising , racing, etc. Curious ,Thanks......
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bill eason
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3000psi and falling
Zone Head
Posts: 848
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posted February 22, 2013 06:37 PM
 Edited By: 3000psi and falling on 23 Feb 2013 02:38
Ok, I overlooked inspecting the plugs the other day, I found that one is damaged. I think its cly 1. Its the far left one when your on the bike. These plugs are about 7k miles old.
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08 ZX14, 2010 Persimmon Red bodywork.
Flies pulled, 16-42, BMC street, 8" extensions, drag shock, cut pan, Cycle Concepts Drag Pack and springs, muzzy m14 w/ oval can, lowered, Shinco usoft rear, pcv with autotune, leightweight Shori 18ah battery, throttle meister. 500lbs at bandimeres scales with half tank of juice.
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3000psi and falling
Zone Head
Posts: 848
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posted February 22, 2013 06:42 PM
Edited By: 3000psi and falling on 23 Feb 2013 02:47
here are the others, dont have any damage to the ground strap, but they dont look nice thats for sure.
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08 ZX14, 2010 Persimmon Red bodywork.
Flies pulled, 16-42, BMC street, 8" extensions, drag shock, cut pan, Cycle Concepts Drag Pack and springs, muzzy m14 w/ oval can, lowered, Shinco usoft rear, pcv with autotune, leightweight Shori 18ah battery, throttle meister. 500lbs at bandimeres scales with half tank of juice.
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Birdkillr
Parking Attendant
2012 14R heavy mod NOS
Posts: 23
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posted February 23, 2013 07:07 AM
Bill I tried to im you... give you a run down and what we found.
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billeason
Zone Head
Posts: 711
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posted February 23, 2013 04:53 PM
Thanks BirdKillr, I didn't get it but pm funny here as i am sure you know. Hope it works out for you. I think Bad knows of a motor if Kaw isn't gonna help you out !
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bill eason
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3000psi and falling
Zone Head
Posts: 848
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posted February 23, 2013 05:45 PM
I am almost done with the valve lash adjustment, I found a few that were out of spec, but just by one size. 4 of the 5 that were out of spec were from the cylinder with the half gone spark plug grounding strap.
Picked up new plugs from advanced auto parts, 9 clams each. Lets hope this is the solution to what ive been hearing. If its not ill be opening up the case for sure.
Oh and the timing chain feels shitty, it rolls nice on the cam sprockets still, But while checking for kinks with lots of slack in the chain I found that just past the angle of the sprockets its starts binding and feeling gritty, I dont think it did this last time I had it apart.
Ill be replacing it soon one way or the other.
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08 ZX14, 2010 Persimmon Red bodywork.
Flies pulled, 16-42, BMC street, 8" extensions, drag shock, cut pan, Cycle Concepts Drag Pack and springs, muzzy m14 w/ oval can, lowered, Shinco usoft rear, pcv with autotune, leightweight Shori 18ah battery, throttle meister. 500lbs at bandimeres scales with half tank of juice.
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kawa74
Expert Class
Posts: 226
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posted February 23, 2013 06:07 PM
You do realise that those shinny balls of aluminum on the plugs and what melted the Ground strap ?? Aluminum melts at much lower temp than Steel !
Detonation, Pre ignition, Noise in engine, burning,melting a hole in Piston, melting plug.
Bike is too Lean or too much advance, sharp edge in CC.
Better richen up map, check ignition timing and see how bad pistons and CC are
2 cts
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"I have never met a man so Ignorant that I coun't Learn from him"..."Galileo"
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3000psi and falling
Zone Head
Posts: 848
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posted February 23, 2013 07:02 PM
Shinny balls of aluminum? I think you may be seeing bits of white stuff from the cardboard.
I checked out all the cylinders with my borescope, lookes fine.
I will get this thing back on the dyno for an afr reading,. Last dyno tune was at sea level, now im a mile high in denver, I thought id be rich up here.
There is a lot of ash on these plugs, but I did just run a bunch of lucas in the gas last week.
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08 ZX14, 2010 Persimmon Red bodywork.
Flies pulled, 16-42, BMC street, 8" extensions, drag shock, cut pan, Cycle Concepts Drag Pack and springs, muzzy m14 w/ oval can, lowered, Shinco usoft rear, pcv with autotune, leightweight Shori 18ah battery, throttle meister. 500lbs at bandimeres scales with half tank of juice.
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3000psi and falling
Zone Head
Posts: 848
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posted March 01, 2013 05:35 PM
Well, Just took it for a short spin. I Do Not Hear the noise anymore. I will feel better after a longer ride though, just to make sure. Im going to ride it for a few days, then pull the plugs and see what they look like.
Still not sure as to why the one plug lost half of its ground strap, The gap was well over 1.0mm on that plug, im thinking this was messing with the spark timing, causing the noise I was hearing while rolling on and off throttle under load.
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08 ZX14, 2010 Persimmon Red bodywork.
Flies pulled, 16-42, BMC street, 8" extensions, drag shock, cut pan, Cycle Concepts Drag Pack and springs, muzzy m14 w/ oval can, lowered, Shinco usoft rear, pcv with autotune, leightweight Shori 18ah battery, throttle meister. 500lbs at bandimeres scales with half tank of juice.
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