3000psi and falling
Zone Head
Posts: 848
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posted January 15, 2013 02:59 PM
"Pulling the flys causes weak low end"
Just another wonderful dealer.
Took a friends 08 14 to the local Dealer (Erico Motorsports) here in Denver a few weeks ago for a dyno tune. I had removed the secondary throttle plates prior to this. While handing over the keys to the service department we were asked a few questions like why it needed a dyno tune? Responded with "I removed the secondary flys, and I suspect a lean condition in the low rpm range" And as a matter of fact the bike was clearly out of tune once up to running temp in stop and go traffic on the way to the dealer. I was told it was likely a ignition issue and not a tuning issue....
I was advised that this was not the way pick up low end HP, "Luke" the service writer suggested a lightweight flywheel for this 14.......
Well I just heard the bike is done, the fine mechanics of Erico Motorsports report that the bike made 180hp 105tq "But pulling the butterflies caused a weak low end"
Oh and that the bikes "afr looked great" Is this the first 14 to have the flies pulled and not need tuning?
Lost all faith in this dealer/shop.
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08 ZX14, 2010 Persimmon Red bodywork.
Flies pulled, 16-42, BMC street, 8" extensions, drag shock, cut pan, Cycle Concepts Drag Pack and springs, muzzy m14 w/ oval can, lowered, Shinco usoft rear, pcv with autotune, leightweight Shori 18ah battery, throttle meister. 500lbs at bandimeres scales with half tank of juice.
  
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hagrid
Expert Class
Posts: 373
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posted January 15, 2013 03:17 PM
All I can say is, its Denver. Oxygen is hard to come by up there. A sniffer closer to sea level may show a lean condition.
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blue 14R
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3000psi and falling
Zone Head
Posts: 848
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posted January 15, 2013 03:34 PM
Yes, but the afr would still be all over the place, mile high or sea level. The thing that gets to me is them claiming that me pulling the secondarys hurt low end power.
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08 ZX14, 2010 Persimmon Red bodywork.
Flies pulled, 16-42, BMC street, 8" extensions, drag shock, cut pan, Cycle Concepts Drag Pack and springs, muzzy m14 w/ oval can, lowered, Shinco usoft rear, pcv with autotune, leightweight Shori 18ah battery, throttle meister. 500lbs at bandimeres scales with half tank of juice.
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MotoCycho
Expert Class
Posts: 337
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posted January 15, 2013 04:23 PM
180hp 105tq.. that's got to be corrected?
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3000psi and falling
Zone Head
Posts: 848
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posted January 15, 2013 04:32 PM
 Edited By: 3000psi and falling on 16 Jan 2013 00:33
quote:
180hp 105tq.. that's got to be corrected?
Its a Ducati dyno -15% for standard reading lol
Yes im sure its corrected. And im thinking its a happy dyno.
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08 ZX14, 2010 Persimmon Red bodywork.
Flies pulled, 16-42, BMC street, 8" extensions, drag shock, cut pan, Cycle Concepts Drag Pack and springs, muzzy m14 w/ oval can, lowered, Shinco usoft rear, pcv with autotune, leightweight Shori 18ah battery, throttle meister. 500lbs at bandimeres scales with half tank of juice.
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dcjens
Pro
Wet side of Washington
Posts: 1059
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posted January 15, 2013 04:35 PM
My first pipe and maps were muzzy. It had flat spots as well. Dynoed 189 and 153 just with map changes..The problem went away when the pipe did. Sounds like you know where NOT to take your bike to be tuned
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Black 06
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BobC
Pro
Posts: 1736
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posted January 17, 2013 02:23 AM
On my 2006 bike we doubled the power at 3,500 by removing the flies and creating a custom map for the PCIII. That big hole in the power curve simply disappeared and it was like riding a different bike.
Flies out but before the tune there was more power but the curve still dipped low down where it was running lean.
This is a really old topic !
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Candy Thunder Blue 2006 ZZR1400
Stock wheelbase
Max: 205.4 mph in 1.25 miles
2012 ZZR1400 in Golden Blazed Green
Brock CT Full System. etc
Max: 203.1 in 1 mile (so far)
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joseph702
Zone Head
Posts: 598
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posted January 17, 2013 07:31 AM
Light waight flywheel? Serisley and a dyno is only as good as the operators . I'd Deff go some were else
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ZXLNT
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
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posted January 17, 2013 07:24 PM
quote:
On my 2006 bike we doubled the power at 3,500 by removing the flies and creating a custom map for the PCIII. That big hole in the power curve simply disappeared and it was like riding a different bike.
Flies out but before the tune there was more power but the curve still dipped low down where it was running lean.
This is a really old topic !
No kidding, my bike was like night and day. Before it was sluggish and unresponsive. Afterwards it was a BRUTE even with stock exhaust..
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joseph702
Zone Head
Posts: 598
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posted January 18, 2013 02:31 PM
That's what I'm saying , mine was Dyno'd befor and after and have charts some were , the gains were a lot more then I expected
Ur taking in a lot more air and when fuel is added to make it even the gains are a lot more then a dyno will show . It's what makes the 14 feel like a 1400 not 1000
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weighmaster
Expert Class
Posts: 301
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posted January 19, 2013 06:08 AM
Edited By: weighmaster on 19 Jan 2013 14:21
What bothers me is some people claim removing the "flies" is a free mod. From what I have read, that is very misleading. First of all, taking a stock bike that already has some lean spots and giving it more air can create "off the scale" lean spots that can hurt an engine. I've seen charts that show 18:1 air to fuel ratio which is very bad for an engine.
So if removing the flies requires adding more fuel to compensate and probably a few dyno runs to verify the power increase, how is that free?
Also, why is it so important to have a rush of power down low? For example, if I am in 6th gear doing say 60 MPH and want to make an agressive move like pass someone in a hurry, what is the problem of just downshifting to 4th and rolling the throttle? You people make it sound like the bike is a slug down low but for a street bike rider, having less grunt down low can actually be a good thing like when going around a long sweeper and rolling the throttle out of it.
When I purchased my ZX-10R, the previous owner had the flies already removed and a PC3 already installed. What that did was turn the bike into an annoying wheelie machine in the lower gears.
The Engineers know what they are doing and I think they did a very nice job controlling the power on the 2006 ZX-14. The bike does not need all that air down low. In fact, the bike can make close to 100 RWHP with the flies still closed at 7K RPMs! That is almost as much as a stock Bandit 1200 or a stock SV1000S "wide open" at an even higher RPM like 9 or 10K.
So mine are staying in because for me, the bike is better with them in. If I want to get slammed back in the seat, I just make sure I am in the proper gear and the power is there. Simple as that.
With flies out (on the street), there is little need for 6 gears. I bet 3 would suffice. My point is the gears are there, why not use them to get the bike above 7K and let the flies open that way? Shifting the gears IS free. No mod needed.
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indynic
Expert Class
Lil Show, Lil Go
Posts: 258
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posted January 19, 2013 06:41 AM
Uhhh.....Really????
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weighmaster
Expert Class
Posts: 301
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posted January 19, 2013 06:49 AM
yes really.
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indynic
Expert Class
Lil Show, Lil Go
Posts: 258
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posted January 19, 2013 09:23 AM
WOW......Okay
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joseph702
Zone Head
Posts: 598
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posted January 19, 2013 10:24 AM
Ok free mod is its free to do then u will need to tune , outher mods cost then u need t tune , so the modest self is free , and if I'm in 6th on high way and wana pass I'll drop to 2-3rd gear depending. On speed and still won't flip so more low end how could u go wrong? A stock 14 is nice flys out and pc5 is a lot better , and ur post on every thing being negativ is fucking stupid and shows how much of a life u don't have , if u don't like drag racing or more power don't post or even read , ur shit on drag 101 is a great disrespect to lee and every one in here. Start ur own thread on anti drag 101 and keep ur bs to ur self u fucking dead beat low life
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BobC
Pro
Posts: 1736
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posted January 19, 2013 11:08 AM
For me the benefit from removing the secondaries on my 2006 bike was gaining a smooth power curve. There's nothing worse than pulling away, or just riding gently and feeling the engine fall into a massive hole at around 3,000 rpm.
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Candy Thunder Blue 2006 ZZR1400
Stock wheelbase
Max: 205.4 mph in 1.25 miles
2012 ZZR1400 in Golden Blazed Green
Brock CT Full System. etc
Max: 203.1 in 1 mile (so far)
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ZXLNT
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
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posted January 20, 2013 06:14 PM
Weighmaster, yes the bike was slug for being 1352cc. It was slow to respond especially in the higher gears when trying to pass. With the fly out it was a whole new machine. Power everywhere at every rpm range. No need to downshift to pass a car. Just roll the gas on and hang on. Much more fun and enjoyable to ride...
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INTIMIDA2OR
Needs a life
RED rider!
Posts: 13081
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posted January 20, 2013 11:54 PM
quote:
Weighmaster, yes the bike was slug for being 1352cc. It was slow to respond especially in the higher gears when trying to pass. With the fly out it was a whole new machine. Power everywhere at every rpm range. No need to downshift to pass a car. Just roll the gas on and hang on. Much more fun and enjoyable to ride...
+1! That's why I removed them . If I wanted the power of a 600cc sport bike then I would leave them in..
And fuck what anybody says otherwise  
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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