riaansh
Expert Class
Posts: 195
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posted October 13, 2012 11:56 AM
Dyno or not
My mods. 14r Guhl flash
PCV Brock's street map
Alien Head 2
40 t rear sprocket
Should I get a custom map?
When I do decide to dyno will the 40 rear sprocket influence Hp numbers?
  
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lietoome
Needs a job
Posts: 2033
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posted October 13, 2012 07:59 PM
My Brock's map was really close to being spot on. With that said, it was a little rich up top when I had my 2006 dynoed. I'm guessing it was 'programmed' in to help with the ram air at speed vs a static dyno. That's just my opinion.
I know I could have ran the brock map indefinitely, but I had the opportunity to get it fine tuned for reletively cheap. If I could do it again...I would spend the 'dyno money' on something else.
FWIW, the guy who dynoed my bike did not adjust anything in the mid & lower rpms, just up top. He said it was perfect, and that he would not likely be able to make any gains.
The sprocket will not make any difference. Mind if I ask why you would run a 40t? Land speed racing?
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riaansh
Expert Class
Posts: 195
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posted October 13, 2012 11:53 PM
quote:
My Brock's map was really close to being spot on. With that said, it was a little rich up top when I had my 2006 dynoed. I'm guessing it was 'programmed' in to help with the ram air at speed vs a static dyno. That's just my opinion.
I know I could have ran the brock map indefinitely, but I had the opportunity to get it fine tuned for reletively cheap. If I could do it again...I would spend the 'dyno money' on something else.
FWIW, the guy who dynoed my bike did not adjust anything in the mid & lower rpms, just up top. He said it was perfect, and that he would not likely be able to make any gains.
The sprocket will not make any difference. Mind if I ask why you would run a 40t? Land speed racing?
Yep doing top speed run soon. Also it is said to launch better or else it is a wheelie machine. I do experiece improved launches now but think during roll ons it would suffer.
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Johnnycheese
Pro
Posts: 1008
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posted October 14, 2012 01:53 AM
YES map it. lie to me may have been close but how do you know yours is???
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Builder and tuner of some of the fastest N.A. and P/A Hayabusas and ZX12 /14 in Texas
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Viper
Expert Class
Posts: 285
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posted October 14, 2012 06:14 AM
quote:
YES map it. lie to me may have been close but how do you know yours is???
I agree, my 14r was extremely lean with the brocks map. It ran better and was smoother with a custom map. Every bike is not the same as well as the location can also influence performance
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2012 ZX14R SE
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riaansh
Expert Class
Posts: 195
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posted October 14, 2012 08:05 AM
I'm also leaning towards the Dyno. Sure it would not harm me to get more HP's. If Brock's map is close, good for me. Thanks for the advice.
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted October 14, 2012 08:41 AM
It all depends on the dyno operator. Brock's maps are excellent, and if it is lean there is a reason for that, you can bet. Not every bike is fastest at the same a/f. Making the bike richer will often make it smoother...and sometimes at the cost of performance.
If the dyno operator really knows what he is doing, go for it. Otherwise, be wary...
Shane
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riaansh
Expert Class
Posts: 195
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posted October 14, 2012 08:56 AM
quote:
It all depends on the dyno operator. Brock's maps are excellent, and if it is lean there is a reason for that, you can bet. Not every bike is fastest at the same a/f. Making the bike richer will often make it smoother...and sometimes at the cost of performance.
If the dyno operator really knows what he is doing, go for it. Otherwise, be wary...
Shane
I agree Shane. I do have a lot of faith in Brock's maps. My biggest concern is the tuner. He must be honest in saying there is not more performance to be gained. Our fuel quality and range of octaines is not as where you are from so this would be the only concideration for the dyno then. Should he fine tune the current map of create a new one.
I think doing miner changes to Brock's map might do it. I can always use the default map again if I'm not satisfied then.
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toledoUPSguy
Expert Class
An old guy with a new toy
Posts: 320
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posted October 14, 2012 11:39 AM
I'm in the same boat trying to decide on a custom tune. mine has an alien head 2, PCV with brocks streetmap2 and Shane's mod from brocks private forum. It smells waaay rich down low and and has very slow throttle response below 5k.
I think Honda East is still running a $200 tuning special till the end of the month.
____________
The man on top of the mountain didn't fall there.
2014 ZX14r in nuclear sunset orange and black
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zx12mark
Pro
Posts: 1654
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posted October 14, 2012 04:37 PM
I can say without a doubt that my 14r pulled harder with the stock pipes to 7000 rpm`s.I am basing this on power wheels while shifting gears.
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Wheelie
Needs a life
Old Man
Posts: 6902
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posted October 14, 2012 05:02 PM
Brocks 14r maps are LEAN, I use a data logger and tried to add fuel to get the 12.9-13.0 a/f most gen 1 14's like, I went back with the Brock map, my best et/mph numbers have come from his map.
wee
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eklipse636
Needs a life
ZX-14
Posts: 6046
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posted October 14, 2012 05:08 PM
I don't think it's as much as "trusting" the tuner as it is the tuner truely knowing what he is doing.
My Brock's map was very close as well. One of the best tuner/turbo builders in the world tuned it after Brock's map, and made very little changes. It did not go a lot faster, but it did consistantly go faster.
If its a street bike, I would let it be
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Best: 60ft 1.351 1/8 5.68 mph 123.98 1/4
8.89 mph 151.32
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Johnnycheese
Pro
Posts: 1008
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posted October 14, 2012 05:24 PM
look it all depends on the bike
most Brock map I see through the shop are FAT PIG RICH, the rest are close, never seen one lean yet.
again it all depends on what you want....... kinda like cuiser guys that would rather spend their money on 150.00 grips that a good running map
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Builder and tuner of some of the fastest N.A. and P/A Hayabusas and ZX12 /14 in Texas
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Wheelie
Needs a life
Old Man
Posts: 6902
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posted October 14, 2012 05:31 PM
 Edited By: Wheelie on 15 Oct 2012 01:35
quote:
look it all depends on the bike
most Brock map I see through the shop are FAT PIG RICH, the rest are close, never seen one lean yet.
again it all depends on what you want....... kinda like cuiser guys that would rather spend their money on 150.00 grips that a good running map
edit
wee
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Viper
Expert Class
Posts: 285
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posted October 14, 2012 08:52 PM
I can say this, with brocks map on 89 pump gas ecu flash my bike would ping. It was extremely lean. I had HTP tune it on 93 pump and it no longer pings and runs better et and almost 2 mph more.
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2012 ZX14R SE
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FAST Z14
Expert Class
Posts: 184
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posted October 14, 2012 10:35 PM
quote:
quote:
It all depends on the dyno operator. Brock's maps are excellent, and if it is lean there is a reason for that, you can bet. Not every bike is fastest at the same a/f. Making the bike richer will often make it smoother...and sometimes at the cost of performance.
If the dyno operator really knows what he is doing, go for it. Otherwise, be wary...
Shane
I agree Shane. I do have a lot of faith in Brock's maps. My biggest concern is the tuner. He must be honest in saying there is not more performance to be gained. Our fuel quality and range of octaines is not as where you are from so this would be the only concideration for the dyno then. Should he fine tune the current map of create a new one.
I think doing miner changes to Brock's map might do it. I can always use the default map again if I'm not satisfied then.
Hi Riaansh
Are you from JHB & who are you going to use as a tuner ?
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FOLY HUCK
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Seno
Pro
BANNED FOR LIFE!
Posts: 1230
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posted October 15, 2012 03:52 AM
A tune is a good investment if you are looking for max power. I have several custom maps if you want to try a different one. My engine mods are pipe, PCV, ECU reflash, nos (2nd map).
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2012 Black 14R -> Completely done!
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Brock
Sponsor
Posts: 560
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posted October 15, 2012 05:45 AM
We see what Wheelie said here OVER AND OVER…
Can you put your bike on a dyno and get a higher horsepower number? **YES**
Why? Because the bike IS NOT MOVING on the damn dyno, so the optimum A/F ratio to make peak horsepower WILL BE DIFFERENT (Richer or leaner, it depends on the make/model and sometimes year) than what we send you for use in the real world.
You can pay a tuner to ‘improve’ upon our map, head to the track and GO SLOWER. Put our map back in… and go faster again.
I have seen it hundreds of times in the last 10 years and seen thousands of dollars WASTED.
Click here to read more: How can Brock get Maps So Close?
Brock
Brock’s Performance
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riaansh
Expert Class
Posts: 195
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posted October 15, 2012 06:47 AM
equote:
quote:
quote:
It all depends on the dyno operator. Brock's maps are excellent, and if it is lean there is a reason for that, you can bet. Not every bike is fastest at the same a/f. Making the bike richer will often make it smoother...and sometimes at the cost of performance.
If the dyno operator really knows what he is doing, go for it. Otherwise, be wary...
Shane
I agree Shane. I do have a lot of faith in Brock's maps. My biggest concern is the tuner. He must be honest in saying there is not more performance to be gained. Our fuel quality and range of octaines is not as where you are from so this would be the only concideration for the dyno then. Should he fine tune the current map of create a new one.
I think doing miner changes to Brock's map might do it. I can always use the default map again if I'm not satisfied then.
Hi Riaansh
Are you from JHB & who are you going to use as a tuner ?
Hi Buddy
No I'm from PE. No don't know the best tuners but just had a thought to do a dyno. I think Brock's maps are very good. I did a unofficial 322 gps run with my 2007 zx14 and Brock's race map. Must say I had a dyno done but at the end of the day his map gave me the best performance, even in our conditions.
Now the 14r is a different bike so was just testing and getting opinions and views on the map thing.
I'm cautious on trusting anyone with this baby and don't like it when they ring it's neck on the dyno.
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Slow14_Fz1
Novice Class
Posts: 83
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posted October 15, 2012 08:10 AM
My 14R Brocks street map was rich everywhere by only 2% but I live at 3,400'
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08 zx14 Turbo 17lbs 8.84@159 spinning
2012 zx14r NA 5.93@118 9.30@147 best 1.37 60'
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Viper
Expert Class
Posts: 285
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posted October 15, 2012 01:44 PM
I had my bike dynoed by two different very reputable tuners and sitting still the 89 pump track map on my bike was at 14.2 I really would say that is way too lean because when moving it will lean out even more. The bike would ping when I cranked it at the track. That was on shell 89 and any other 89 pump gas. The bike ran a best of 5.71 @122 on a foggy night spinning on the top end. On a good air day it only ran 5.73@121 not spinning. Since I had it tuned by Cecil on 93 pump gas it no longer pings when I crank it and it runs 5.68@124 on a hot day now and alot smoother too. But that is just how my bike did with the brocks map. Alot of others are doing fine with it.
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2012 ZX14R SE
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FAST Z14
Expert Class
Posts: 184
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posted October 15, 2012 10:29 PM
quote:
equote:
quote:
quote:
It all depends on the dyno operator. Brock's maps are excellent, and if it is lean there is a reason for that, you can bet. Not every bike is fastest at the same a/f. Making the bike richer will often make it smoother...and sometimes at the cost of performance.
If the dyno operator really knows what he is doing, go for it. Otherwise, be wary...
Shane
I agree Shane. I do have a lot of faith in Brock's maps. My biggest concern is the tuner. He must be honest in saying there is not more performance to be gained. Our fuel quality and range of octaines is not as where you are from so this would be the only concideration for the dyno then. Should he fine tune the current map of create a new one.
I think doing miner changes to Brock's map might do it. I can always use the default map again if I'm not satisfied then.
Hi Riaansh
Are you from JHB & who are you going to use as a tuner ?
I can only recommend 2 good tuners here in JHB, don't know any down at PE area. We have Bazzaz system with Brock's CT single full systems on our 14R's. Your Brock map should be damn close, but in my case the tuner got a bit more hp, tq & acceleration through the gears with custom map.
Anyway you live at the coast that 14R should be a monster down there.
Hi Buddy
No I'm from PE. No don't know the best tuners but just had a thought to do a dyno. I think Brock's maps are very good. I did a unofficial 322 gps run with my 2007 zx14 and Brock's race map. Must say I had a dyno done but at the end of the day his map gave me the best performance, even in our conditions.
Now the 14r is a different bike so was just testing and getting opinions and views on the map thing.
I'm cautious on trusting anyone with this baby and don't like it when they ring it's neck on the dyno.
____________
FOLY HUCK
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riaansh
Expert Class
Posts: 195
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posted October 16, 2012 06:37 AM
Hello fastz14. Think I spoke to your brother before. What dyno numbers did you achieve with your tune?
Yes that is why I change the rear sprocket to the 40. The bike was a a bit of a monster after the mods. Must say the 40 tames is a bit. I also have a zx 12 that performs well. With a jump and light rider even the 14r does not catch up to easily. Looks like a low weight rider makes a difference to the bikes.
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Brock
Sponsor
Posts: 560
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posted October 16, 2012 02:30 PM
Edited By: Brock on 16 Oct 2012 22:31
Let me also back up my statements with a couple of others.
1. Your TPS must be set correctly. The best map in the world is useless if your TPS is off and our map is fueling a 2%, but your TPS is reading 5% - this is the most common reason a custom map can actually make a measurable difference in drivability. Our private owners group explains this, but you would be amazed at how many of our customers don’t take the time to read it.
2. Your injection system must be in good working order. We have seen bikes in need of injector cleaning in less than 2500K miles.
Please watch the MPS Injector Cleaning Video Here: MPS Video Page
I will not claim that our Power Charge Wynn’s Power Charge on Brock’s Site
works as well, but I will tell you that we have seen power gains from 8-15 HP (no shit!), from running a can (mixed with 2 gallons of pump gas) through on the dyno after a 10 mile ride. Of course, our maps will not work correctly with injectors spraying as shown in the video, and wildly incorrect Air Fuel Ratio’s could be ‘corrected’ on the dyno with jacked up injectors… I’m sure performance gains could even be noted. FYI: we won’t dyno a bike or create a map here a Brock’s without cleansing the fuel system first, it’s part of our typical process and has been for over 10 years – I don’t find this to be the case with most tuners.
3. Some bikes run their best very rich or very lean. Some operators might not like the sooty look at the tip of the pipe, but if they want max performance, that’s how it must be. A BIG problem is #2 - they forget that their bikes were not this way when they first started running our pipe/maps, but over time, it gets worse. A simple ‘cleansing’ gets them back to where they were. It’s not snake oil, these bikes get gummed up quicker than you would imagine. It takes less than a summer for most drag racers to notice a measurable loss of performance if they run pump gas exclusively!
That’s my 2 cents. Some might disagree – that’s fine. I have thousands of customers who have experienced what we have to offer. I find that most of the happy ones take the time to read our FAQ’s, private forum info. and/or speak to my technical support staff.
Brock
Brock’s Performance
Ps. I’m not exactly sure where some of the questions in this topic are originating from, but I think this FAQ might come in handy also: Can I use Brock's maps with fuels in different countries?
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toledoUPSguy
Expert Class
An old guy with a new toy
Posts: 320
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posted October 16, 2012 05:22 PM
Brock I wanted to publicly thank you for the time you spent emailing me today
____________
The man on top of the mountain didn't fall there.
2014 ZX14r in nuclear sunset orange and black
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