Obba
Expert Class
Posts: 455
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posted September 07, 2012 01:39 PM
Maybe i missed something in this post, or it's related to another post:
But why would you want to put a 14R engine into a 14 frame?
Is there a justified weight saving or the justifiable risk of putting a 'wrecked 14R cheap' secondhand engine so as to keep ones 14?
  
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MotoCycho
Expert Class
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posted September 07, 2012 01:48 PM
Grudge race trickery maybe?
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Wheelie
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Old Man
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posted September 07, 2012 01:50 PM
quote:
Maybe i missed something in this post, or it's related to another post:
But why would you want to put a 14R engine into a 14 frame?
Is there a justified weight saving or the justifiable risk of putting a 'wrecked 14R cheap' secondhand engine so as to keep ones 14?
what forum would he post in, zx14 or zx14r?
wee
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smokinZX14
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posted September 07, 2012 04:58 PM
quote:
Maybe i missed something in this post, or it's related to another post:
But why would you want to put a 14R engine into a 14 frame?
Is there a justified weight saving or the justifiable risk of putting a 'wrecked 14R cheap' secondhand engine so as to keep ones 14?
Same reason Busa guys install Gen 2 motors in Gen 1 bike..
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Wheelie
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posted September 07, 2012 05:00 PM
and GSXR-1000 motors in 600's and 750's
wee
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Obba
Expert Class
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posted September 08, 2012 12:13 AM
Thanks for the answers... Smart arses 
So when someone doesn't know something fully, it's ridicule them, right?
Weight?
But surely the frame is designed to be (thicker/sturdier), safe to handle the exrtra HP...
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BLK ICE
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posted September 08, 2012 01:09 AM
quote:
Thanks for the answers... Smart arses
So when someone doesn't know something fully, it's ridicule them, right?
Weight?
But surely the frame is designed to be (thicker/sturdier), safe to handle the exrtra HP...
They are not being smart asses, they are right.
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eklipse636
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ZX-14
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posted September 08, 2012 02:42 AM
quote:
quote:
Thanks for the answers... Smart arses
So when someone doesn't know something fully, it's ridicule them, right?
Weight?
But surely the frame is designed to be (thicker/sturdier), safe to handle the exrtra HP...
They are not being smart asses, they are right.
I agree.
No you don't do it for weight, you do it if you have a gen1 14 and you don't want to sell it and pay a extra $7,000 for a new14.
It's not that much extra hp, so the frame doesn't have to be thicker.
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1badzx12r
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posted September 08, 2012 03:57 AM
quote:
If the 14R motor does fit and everything bolts up just fine, would you need a PC V for the 14R or could you use the PC V for the Gen 1 14. Also, does anyone know what size injectors are in the 14R. Thanks,
the mapping would be the tricky stuff 06 mapping 08 mapping or 12 mapping depends on which ECU you using and which injectors.. but as far as PC goes that depends on which wiring harness used.. but i haven't seen a 2012 plugs yet. i'm assuming its a differant plug due to how long it took the PC to hit the market
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madnessracing
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posted September 08, 2012 10:14 AM
lmao
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Obba
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posted September 09, 2012 12:30 AM
Wheelie says; "and GSXR-1000 motors in 600's and 750's".
BLKICE says; "They are not being smart asses, they are right".
Eklipse636 says; "It's not that much extra hp, so the frame doesn't have to be thicker".
So putting a GSXR1000 engine into a 600 frame is ok to you, the 'experts' "?
I still don't see the why the $7K (estimated), is worth the work: Wiring, Ecu, PC unknowns, Oil pan hole access, Fitting, Gen1 heat fairing issues, Single fan, Cabling and an 'old' plated bike.
Plus no insurance...!
No wonder you are 'egging on' for some other smuck to do it for you...
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1badzx12r
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posted September 09, 2012 03:45 AM
 Edited By: 1badzx12r on 9 Sep 2012 11:46
quote:
So putting a GSXR1000 engine into a 600 frame is ok to you, the 'experts' "?
as far as i know the GSXR1000 and GSXR600 are the same frame
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KZScott
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posted September 09, 2012 09:04 AM
if you consider the fact that guys have been doubling and tripling the hp of the gen 1s with built motors, nitrous, turbos ect.... well i wouldnt worry about the extra hp of a gen 2 motor in a gen 1 frame.
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eklipse636
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posted September 09, 2012 10:23 AM
quote:
if you consider the fact that guys have been doubling and tripling the hp of the gen 1s with built motors, nitrous, turbos ect.... well i wouldnt worry about the extra hp of a gen 2 motor in a gen 1 frame.
That's what I was trying to say when I said " that much more" hp
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wrongway
Pro
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posted September 09, 2012 04:41 PM
quote:
quote:
If the 14R motor does fit and everything bolts up just fine, would you need a PC V for the 14R or could you use the PC V for the Gen 1 14. Also, does anyone know what size injectors are in the 14R. Thanks,
the mapping would be the tricky stuff 06 mapping 08 mapping or 12 mapping depends on which ECU you using and which injectors.. but as far as PC goes that depends on which wiring harness used.. but i haven't seen a 2012 plugs yet. i'm assuming its a differant plug due to how long it took the PC to hit the market
only you would think mapping is tricky :-)
it is fairly easy to map a motor that has 7% more displacement.
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1badzx12r
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posted September 09, 2012 04:49 PM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 10 Sep 2012 00:56
quote:
only you would think mapping is tricky :-)
it is fairly easy to map a motor that has 7% more displacement.
not when you don't know which injectors or ECU is being used.. say some idiot puts 08 ecu with 06 throttle bodies with a 2012 motor using a 06 pipe and a 06 air filter .. there
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wrongway
Pro
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posted September 09, 2012 07:47 PM
quote:
quote:
only you would think mapping is tricky :-)
it is fairly easy to map a motor that has 7% more displacement.
not when you don't know which injectors or ECU is being used.. say some idiot puts 08 ecu with 06 throttle bodies with a 2012 motor using a 06 pipe and a 06 air filter .. there
might work fine , 15% more fuel for 7% more displacement... I cant understand why you think this shit is rocket science.
put a data logger on there and you can map anything.
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1badzx12r
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posted September 10, 2012 03:37 AM
quote:
might work fine , 15% more fuel for 7% more displacement... I cant understand why you think this shit is rocket science.
put a data logger on there and you can map anything.
datalogger ain't gonna fix a 08 motor with 08 injectors in a 06 frame with 06 ECU.. be like putting a 2bbl on where a 4bbl was
I went 8.30's@170mph with a 265lb fat guy and no skills on the same hp your running .. so yeah it is rocket science..
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wrongway
Pro
Posts: 1078
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posted September 10, 2012 04:28 AM
quote:
quote:
might work fine , 15% more fuel for 7% more displacement... I cant understand why you think this shit is rocket science.
put a data logger on there and you can map anything.
datalogger ain't gonna fix a 08 motor with 08 injectors in a 06 frame with 06 ECU.. be like putting a 2bbl on where a 4bbl was
I went 8.30's@170mph with a 265lb fat guy and no skills on the same hp your running .. so yeah it is rocket science..
08 injectors are 330 cc, and the 06 ecu is setup for 440 cc injectors.
you can calculate the difference and add it to the PCV map , then datalog to fine tune it .
or just use the 440 cc injectors ....
I have no trouble tuning motors,,, I just cant get a suspension dialed in worth a shit.
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1badzx12r
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posted September 10, 2012 05:14 AM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 10 Sep 2012 13:16
quote:
08 injectors are 330 cc, and the 06 ecu is setup for 440 cc injectors.
you can calculate the difference and add it to the PCV map , then datalog to fine tune it .
or just use the 440 cc injectors ....
I have no trouble tuning motors,,, I just cant get a suspension dialed in worth a shit.
i have no issue tuning either but there certain parts that just are a bad match up from 1 year to another year.. and starts a chain of events to be done to make them work..
not only is the injectors size an issue but the pulse signal is also .. ..just by putting a better fuel line and fuel rail on a set of stock injectors it flows more fuel . then with a longer injector opening ..you may end up taking fuel away on a 7% displacement gain on swapping year model parts around .. .. i use an AF datalogger for everything too ..fukking in the dark without 1 ..
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CrotchRocket
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Bracket Racing with Betsy
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posted September 10, 2012 08:41 AM
I think its easier to just trade the gen1 for the gen 2 and never worry about problems that may pop up...
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1badzx12r
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posted September 10, 2012 09:34 AM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 10 Sep 2012 17:38
quote:
I think its easier to just trade the gen1 for the gen 2 and never worry about problems that may pop up...
X2 OR use the money and make your gen 1 faster.. for the 6 to 7k differance i think i can make 1 bad mofo gen 1 ..
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oldkawboy
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posted September 10, 2012 09:37 AM
My boys & I have spent quite a bit of time on a dyno trying early injectors vs. late injectors and swapping both model ecu's. We've tried all combinations on the first gen 14's, no experience with the R's.
Very little tuning was needed between all scenario's. It was on a DJ 250 with sniffer.
Dan
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1badzx12r
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posted September 10, 2012 10:01 AM
quote:
My boys & I have spent quite a bit of time on a dyno trying early injectors vs. late injectors and swapping both model ecu's. We've tried all combinations on the first gen 14's, no experience with the R's.
Very little tuning was needed between all scenario's. It was on a DJ 250 with sniffer.
Dan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkEf8u24mOQ&feature=player_embedded anything can be done..
now my question is do you run a mis-match year model ecu throttle bodies in any of your race bikes..
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oldkawboy
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posted September 10, 2012 11:53 AM
I have an '09 bike and ecu but run '07 injectors, both my sons run their factory ecu's & tb's.
Dan
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