1badzx12r
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posted September 05, 2012 10:32 AM
quote:
Ibad the SS bikes end up with crazy cam numbers like 103 114 to clear the Valves after milling the snot out of the head...They seem to run fine ..And they don't move the bung on the cam after degree the cams ... Smokin...not Doc
and who to say that set at 114 is not a better setting than 107 or 103 .. who's to say stock setting are the best settings .. i haven't heard anybody say what settings that lobe needs to be set at for peak performance .. but i do know on a busa cam that lobe makes a differance where its set at .. and a connie has 2 sensors 1 for each cam on a variable cam system..
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1badzx12r
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posted September 05, 2012 10:39 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Yes it will fit, the stroke is the only thing different......from previous model years.
Then why not just put a the crank from a R into the non R
The R model crank has the mains 2mm larger than the non R you would have to have the case machined or the crank machined for a proper fit but would work as a non-welded crank.
they said the crank is 2mm thicker but has anybody seen and know that the cases are bored 2mm bigger ..
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1badzx12r
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posted September 05, 2012 10:56 AM
bikebandit don't even have the 2012 zx14r in its parts system ..i guessing KHI has all the parts ..  like they did with the 2006 zx14
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dakota9498
Pro
Posts: 1181
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posted September 05, 2012 11:10 AM
quote:
Yes it will fit, the stroke is the only thing different......from previous model years.
There you have it folks, the expert has spoken. Start the swaps.
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2008 ZX14
Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. ~Mark Twain
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Slow14_Fz1
Novice Class
Posts: 83
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posted September 05, 2012 11:20 AM
 Edited By: Slow14_Fz1 on 5 Sep 2012 19:26
try http://www.cyclepartsnation.com/ they are cheaper than bikebandit.
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08 zx14 Turbo 17lbs 8.84@159 spinning
2012 zx14r NA 5.93@118 9.30@147 best 1.37 60'
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GREYHOUNDMOSES
Expert Class
Posts: 324
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posted September 05, 2012 11:23 AM
Part number 14001 is the same for crankase set all years.
http://www.cornwallkawasaki.co.uk/shop/shop.php?cmd=showdiagram&id=27535
http://www.cornwallkawasaki.co.uk/shop/shop.php?cmd=showdiagram&id=24406
Trouble is these diagrams show cylinder head numbers the same for both models as well, and we know the heads are different!! (despite what Goldwingwarriorman says!)
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Slow14_Fz1
Novice Class
Posts: 83
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posted September 05, 2012 11:44 AM
quote:
Part number 14001 is the same for crankase set all years.
http://www.cornwallkawasaki.co.uk/shop/shop.php?cmd=showdiagram&id=27535
http://www.cornwallkawasaki.co.uk/shop/shop.php?cmd=showdiagram&id=24406
Trouble is these diagrams show cylinder head numbers the same for both models as well, and we know the heads are different!! (despite what Goldwingwarriorman says!)
the crank, pistons and rods are the same as well
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08 zx14 Turbo 17lbs 8.84@159 spinning
2012 zx14r NA 5.93@118 9.30@147 best 1.37 60'
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Viper
Expert Class
Posts: 285
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posted September 05, 2012 11:56 AM
14001 is only part of the number there should be a - and 4 more nimbers after that that distinguishes the difference. Should be a 4 mil crank and the head has been ported and the exhaust port is larger. Also the cams are larger both intake and exhaust. But if you look at the beginning of the part number it will make you think that they are all the same. The motors will interchange tho.
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2012 ZX14R SE
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smokinZX14
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posted September 05, 2012 12:20 PM
quote:
quote:
Ibad the SS bikes end up with crazy cam numbers like 103 114 to clear the Valves after milling the snot out of the head...They seem to run fine ..And they don't move the bung on the cam after degree the cams ... Smokin...not Doc
and who to say that set at 114 is not a better setting than 107 or 103 .. who's to say stock setting are the best settings .. i haven't heard anybody say what settings that lobe needs to be set at for peak performance .. but i do know on a busa cam that lobe makes a differance where its set at .. and a connie has 2 sensors 1 for each cam on a variable cam system..
! bad i'm not saying one is better than another ... It's when you do a SS head you end up with some wacky numbers so the pistons don't hit the valves ..That is the only way to get the SS head to work .. If you used 105 105 you will have a pile of bent valves .. But from the testing i have done 105 105 works best in a gen 1 .. That SS 40/60 mill job really fucks up cam timing ..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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BLK ICE
Pro
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Posts: 1709
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posted September 05, 2012 12:34 PM
Brock said 105/105 for gen1 SS motors in an earlier thread.
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smokinZX14
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Posts: 10197
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posted September 05, 2012 01:16 PM
quote:
Brock said 105/105 for gen1 SS motors in an earlier thread.
with a 40/60 mill you CAN"T use 105 105 unless you get new pistons with deeper valve pockets.. In SS class you have to run stock pistons .. But there is no SS class anymore so you could use aftermarket pistons with deeper valve pockets .. Put Jims SS head on and set them at 105 105 and tell me what happenes .. 
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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1badzx12r
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posted September 05, 2012 02:59 PM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 5 Sep 2012 23:02
quote:
quote:
quote:
Ibad the SS bikes end up with crazy cam numbers like 103 114 to clear the Valves after milling the snot out of the head...They seem to run fine ..And they don't move the bung on the cam after degree the cams ... Smokin...not Doc
and who to say that set at 114 is not a better setting than 107 or 103 .. who's to say stock setting are the best settings .. i haven't heard anybody say what settings that lobe needs to be set at for peak performance .. but i do know on a busa cam that lobe makes a differance where its set at .. and a connie has 2 sensors 1 for each cam on a variable cam system..
! bad i'm not saying one is better than another ... It's when you do a SS head you end up with some wacky numbers so the pistons don't hit the valves ..That is the only way to get the SS head to work .. If you used 105 105 you will have a pile of bent valves .. But from the testing i have done 105 105 works best in a gen 1 .. That SS 40/60 mill job really fucks up cam timing ..
so whats to say by shaving 40/60 and adding thin gasket your picking up power 25hp but loosing 10hp by moving the lobe to show a net gain of 15hp .. follow . but if you know where max power point is on that cam sensor lobe and spot it there you get all 25hp
____________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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smokinZX14
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Posts: 10197
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posted September 05, 2012 03:32 PM
Edited By: smokinZX14 on 5 Sep 2012 23:52
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Ibad the SS bikes end up with crazy cam numbers like 103 114 to clear the Valves after milling the snot out of the head...They seem to run fine ..And they don't move the bung on the cam after degree the cams ... Smokin...not Doc
and who to say that set at 114 is not a better setting than 107 or 103 .. who's to say stock setting are the best settings .. i haven't heard anybody say what settings that lobe needs to be set at for peak performance .. but i do know on a busa cam that lobe makes a differance where its set at .. and a connie has 2 sensors 1 for each cam on a variable cam system..
! bad i'm not saying one is better than another ... It's when you do a SS head you end up with some wacky numbers so the pistons don't hit the valves ..That is the only way to get the SS head to work .. If you used 105 105 you will have a pile of bent valves .. But from the testing i have done 105 105 works best in a gen 1 .. That SS 40/60 mill job really fucks up cam timing ..
so whats to say by shaving 40/60 and adding thin gasket your picking up power 25hp but loosing 10hp by moving the lobe to show a net gain of 15hp .. follow . but if you know where max power point is on that cam sensor lobe and spot it there you get all 25hp
The cam sensor doesn't make power , it just tells the motor what part of the stroke the motor is in on a ZX14 ..It just tells the ECU that the motor is either on Exhaust stroke or intake stroke so the injectors only fire one time and the spark fires one time ..Having it one or two deg off is not going to change HP .. If it did cost HP the SS guys would be grinding it off and moving it to get the HP back and they don't ..
At this point it looks like kawi is using the same cam cores and just left the bung in place even if there was no need to have one on the new motor .. Is the bung in the right spot ? I have no clue .. If it isn't in the right spot it can be moved to match the gen 1 motor .. Roy did it and his bike runs great .. It makes great HP and has set land speed records ..
1bad if that is the only thing needed to to install a Gen 2 motor on to a Gen 1 frame it's no biggie .. If you can use all the wiring , ECU and TBs from the gen 1 it will be an easy upgrade .. Any good machine shop could check the location of the sensor bung on the Gen 1 motor Vs the Gen 2 and tell you if they are in the same location .. If it is not just tig weld one in the right place .. AS far as the head i'm betting the boss for the old sensor is till there but not drilled ... I'll check mine tonight and see for sure ..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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smokinZX14
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posted September 05, 2012 04:33 PM
OK guys i checked the front of my Gen 2 and head has the boss where the sensor and sensor bolts goes ... The head casting looks just like the gen 1 .. It should be no problem drilling it out and installing the sensor ..Seeing Kawi left the sensor boss on the head it tell me it's the same casting .. I'm betting the cams are the same cores with more lift and duration .. I'd bet the sensor bung is in the same spot as the gen 1 because it's the same core used on the gen 1 ..
I guess we will find out as soon as Roy finds a gen 2 motor ..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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joseph702
Zone Head
Posts: 598
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posted September 05, 2012 04:58 PM
Lol lee 105 105 on ss head id love to see any one try it.
And cam senser has nothing to do with power . only tell ecu were its at.
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1badzx12r
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posted September 05, 2012 05:26 PM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 6 Sep 2012 01:28
quote:
Lol lee 105 105 on ss head id love to see any one try it.
And cam senser has nothing to do with power . only tell ecu were its at.
http://www.brocksperformance.com/instructions/Hayabusa/S1308-OCP_INSTRUCTIONS.pdf
The second generation Hayabusa’s cam pin is located in a different location relevant to the earlier Busa’s. If the earlier cams are used, the stock Gen 2 Hayabusa ECU believes there is a problem with the cam timing and does not allow the engine to run properly (or not allow the engine to run at all in some instances).
and i know 1st hand a zx14 bad ground on cam position sensor will cause the bike to run like shit..
____________
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smokinZX14
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posted September 05, 2012 06:10 PM
Edited By: smokinZX14 on 6 Sep 2012 02:11
quote:
quote:
Lol lee 105 105 on ss head id love to see any one try it.
And cam senser has nothing to do with power . only tell ecu were its at.
http://www.brocksperformance.com/instructions/Hayabusa/S1308-OCP_INSTRUCTIONS.pdf
The second generation Hayabusa’s cam pin is located in a different location relevant to the earlier Busa’s. If the earlier cams are used, the stock Gen 2 Hayabusa ECU believes there is a problem with the cam timing and does not allow the engine to run properly (or not allow the engine to run at all in some instances).
and i know 1st hand a zx14 bad ground on cam position sensor will cause the bike to run like shit..
1bad this is not a Busa .. Like i have said over and over , we don't know this is the case like a busa .. It may work and it may not .. If the bung on gen 2 zx14r cam is in the same place on the cam like the gen 1 zx14 then there is no problem .. If it isn't it will have to be moved like the busa ... It's not a big deal ... At least now we know the sensor hole on the new head is still there and only needs to be be drilled to install the sensor .. Easy was to test this is someone install a set of cams from a Gen 2 zx14r into a gen 1 zx14 ..I'm supised no one has done this yet ... Just like the ZRX guys use ZZR1200 cams in there bikes .. By the way both Gen 2 cams have the sensor bungs on them unlike the gen 1 that just has one on the exhaust cam.. So you may be able to mix and match cams if wanted ..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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1badzx12r
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Posts: 8321
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posted September 05, 2012 06:53 PM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 6 Sep 2012 02:57
quote:
quote:
quote:
Lol lee 105 105 on ss head id love to see any one try it.
And cam senser has nothing to do with power . only tell ecu were its at.
http://www.brocksperformance.com/instructions/Hayabusa/S1308-OCP_INSTRUCTIONS.pdf
The second generation Hayabusa’s cam pin is located in a different location relevant to the earlier Busa’s. If the earlier cams are used, the stock Gen 2 Hayabusa ECU believes there is a problem with the cam timing and does not allow the engine to run properly (or not allow the engine to run at all in some instances).
and i know 1st hand a zx14 bad ground on cam position sensor will cause the bike to run like shit..
1bad this is not a Busa .. Like i have said over and over , we don't know this is the case like a busa .. It may work and it may not .. If the bung on gen 2 zx14r cam is in the same place on the cam like the gen 1 zx14 then there is no problem .. If it isn't it will have to be moved like the busa ... It's not a big deal ... At least now we know the sensor hole on the new head is still there and only needs to be be drilled to install the sensor .. Easy was to test this is someone install a set of cams from a Gen 2 zx14r into a gen 1 zx14 ..I'm supised no one has done this yet ... Just like the ZRX guys use ZZR1200 cams in there bikes .. By the way both Gen 2 cams have the sensor bungs on them unlike the gen 1 that just has one on the exhaust cam.. So you may be able to mix and match cams if wanted ..
here you are with an ECU on a 2012 zx14r that can't function with a simple gear change and your gonna assume all you need to do is drill a hole for a CPS . AND A CPS IS THE SAME IF ITS ON A BUSA YAMAHA OR KAWASAKI ..NOTHING BUT A MAGNET COUNTING REVOLUTIONS TO FIRE INJECTORS .. Weather your injectors are firing early or late is due to that sensor
____________
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smokinZX14
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posted September 05, 2012 06:58 PM
Edited By: smokinZX14 on 6 Sep 2012 03:12
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Lol lee 105 105 on ss head id love to see any one try it.
And cam senser has nothing to do with power . only tell ecu were its at.
http://www.brocksperformance.com/instructions/Hayabusa/S1308-OCP_INSTRUCTIONS.pdf
The second generation Hayabusa’s cam pin is located in a different location relevant to the earlier Busa’s. If the earlier cams are used, the stock Gen 2 Hayabusa ECU believes there is a problem with the cam timing and does not allow the engine to run properly (or not allow the engine to run at all in some instances).
and i know 1st hand a zx14 bad ground on cam position sensor will cause the bike to run like shit..
1bad this is not a Busa .. Like i have said over and over , we don't know this is the case like a busa .. It may work and it may not .. If the bung on gen 2 zx14r cam is in the same place on the cam like the gen 1 zx14 then there is no problem .. If it isn't it will have to be moved like the busa ... It's not a big deal ... At least now we know the sensor hole on the new head is still there and only needs to be be drilled to install the sensor .. Easy was to test this is someone install a set of cams from a Gen 2 zx14r into a gen 1 zx14 ..I'm supised no one has done this yet ... Just like the ZRX guys use ZZR1200 cams in there bikes .. By the way both Gen 2 cams have the sensor bungs on them unlike the gen 1 that just has one on the exhaust cam.. So you may be able to mix and match cams if wanted ..
here you are with an ECU on a 2012 zx14r that can't function with a simple gear change and your gonna assume all you need to do is drill a hole for a CPS .
Mine works fine with a gear change .. Come on down to fl and i'll let to make some passes on it .. And we are not using a 2012 ECU ..The swap would be using the gen 1 ECU , TBs and wiring ..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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kawasakijockey
Pro
Posts: 1876
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posted September 05, 2012 07:34 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Yes it will fit, the stroke is the only thing different......from previous model years.
Then why not just put a the crank from a R into the non R
The R model crank has the mains 2mm larger than the non R you would have to have the case machined or the crank machined for a proper fit but would work as a non-welded crank.
they said the crank is 2mm thicker but has anybody seen and know that the cases are bored 2mm bigger ..
The main journals are bigger on the 2012. It was mentioned in the specs from Kawasaki.
____________
Get on the shortbus boys 'cause its time to get schooled.
2007 ZX-14
1.38 60ft
9.03 @ 149mph
8.95 @153 small shot n2o
8.68 @160mph 5lbs boost
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smokinZX14
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posted September 05, 2012 08:06 PM
Edited By: smokinZX14 on 6 Sep 2012 04:15
I would not bore the cases to make the crank fit in a gen 1 motor .. I would be much easier to have a crank grinder gind off 2 mill off the mains .. Boring and line honing the cases would cost a bunch of money Vs grinding the mains on the crank .. From what i have read is the cam gear is larger on the gen 2 crank also so they can use a larger and stronger cam chain.. So you may have to use the gen 1 lower cam gear to make it work .. We just will not know till someone gives it a try .. Another problem may be the ring gear that drives the clutch basket .. It made be sized differently or different cut to the gears .. If that is the case you may have to use a 20i2 clutch basket also .. There are a lot of questions and not answers at this point ..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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1badzx12r
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posted September 06, 2012 03:32 AM
another little simple thing is the speedo ..are the covers interchangeable.. then is the output shaft sized for a gen 1 speedo nut..
____________
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted September 06, 2012 05:32 AM
quote:
another little simple thing is the speedo ..are the covers interchangeable.. then is the output shaft sized for a gen 1 speedo nut..
Gen 2 uses the same nut as the Gen 1 ... fixed
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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1badzx12r
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posted September 06, 2012 07:16 AM
yeah them CPS don't matter on how they are mounted ..silly me
quote:
The camshaft position sensor is a magnetic or hall effect sensor, this sensor reads information about the engine, camshafts and speed. It sends a signal to the computer relaying information about shaft speed, position and acceleration or deceleration. The function of the camshaft position sensor is important for the vehicle to run at its best, and maintaining a high level of performance and fuel economy. The information given to the ECU or the Electronic Control Unit dictates when the air fuel mixture is ignited and when to give more or less fuel in correspondence with the camshaft position, its speed and subsequently the valves position and speed. This is a very simple sensor to replace and service, and yet it serves a huge role in your vehicles performance and overall health. [/url]
did they say HUGE ROLL IN PERFORMANCE ..nawh.. .. but i learnt at bikeland it does nothing
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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edszx14
Expert Class
Posts: 271
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posted September 06, 2012 08:08 PM
If the 14R motor does fit and everything bolts up just fine, would you need a PC V for the 14R or could you use the PC V for the Gen 1 14. Also, does anyone know what size injectors are in the 14R. Thanks,
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Ed
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