BLK ICE
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posted September 03, 2012 04:57 PM
 Edited By: BLK ICE on 4 Sep 2012 01:02
Does the ZX14r's Motor fit on ZX14 Frame?
Does the zx14r's motor fit on zx14 frame?
Has anyone tried it?
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KZScott
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posted September 03, 2012 05:58 PM
Maybe we can all bug Shane for measurements 
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
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BLK ICE
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we'll leave the light on for u
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posted September 03, 2012 06:26 PM
Edited By: BLK ICE on 4 Sep 2012 02:34
quote:
Maybe we can all bug Shane for measurements
Good idea.
____________
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Repersenting: BLACK ICE PERFORMANCE and NO QUARTER MOTORSPORTS
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eklipse636
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ZX-14
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posted September 03, 2012 06:27 PM
Forget measurements, we need someone to try it
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BLK ICE
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we'll leave the light on for u
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posted September 03, 2012 06:34 PM
Edited By: BLK ICE on 4 Sep 2012 03:29
quote:
Forget measurements, we need someone to try it
If that Busa wouldn't have gotten in 1BAD's blood, I think he would have done it already.
Has anyone tried it?
____________
Fastest Stock Motor, Stock Bodywork, Hand Clutch, N/A Super Heavy Hitter on the Planet!
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Repersenting: BLACK ICE PERFORMANCE and NO QUARTER MOTORSPORTS
Nitrous and Tires Sponsored by: Custom Specialties Cycles
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madnessracing
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posted September 03, 2012 07:02 PM
PM sent!!
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BLK ICE
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we'll leave the light on for u
Posts: 1709
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posted September 03, 2012 07:08 PM
quote:
PM sent!!
Thanks!
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Fastest Stock Motor, Stock Bodywork, Hand Clutch, N/A Super Heavy Hitter on the Planet!
Fastest Stock Motor, Stock Bodywork, Hand Clutch, Nitrous Super Heavy Hitter on the Planet!
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Repersenting: BLACK ICE PERFORMANCE and NO QUARTER MOTORSPORTS
Nitrous and Tires Sponsored by: Custom Specialties Cycles
Dyno Tuned by: Garron of ADAMS PERFORMANCE. http://www.adamsperformance.net/
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1badzx12r
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posted September 03, 2012 07:11 PM
i'm sure the motor will fit.. but the issue will be you will have to have all the other stuff.. 2012 ecu and wiring harness and throttle bodies..
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KoflaOlivieri
Expert Class
Posts: 298
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posted September 04, 2012 03:43 PM
I am sure it's been done, but if you are a grudge racer, do you tell others? Both engines are so similar that it is almost impossible to visually tell them apart.
Kofla
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1985 Yamaha V-Max 1200
1977 Kawasaki KZ 1000
1975 Kawasaki Z1 900
1974 Kawasaki H2 750
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smokinZX14
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posted September 04, 2012 06:02 PM
quote:
i'm sure the motor will fit.. but the issue will be you will have to have all the other stuff.. 2012 ecu and wiring harness and throttle bodies..
If i was going to do that swap i would use all gen 1 wiring, ecu and TBs .. I know I know the gen 2 motor doesn't have the cam sensor on the head BUT you could drill a hole and install one ... The gen 2 motor still has the sensor bung on the cam ..In fact Chrsi jones said both cams have the bung ..
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KZScott
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posted September 04, 2012 06:12 PM
they are using vac to determine the cam pos now?
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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1badzx12r
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posted September 04, 2012 06:50 PM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 5 Sep 2012 02:52
quote:
quote:
i'm sure the motor will fit.. but the issue will be you will have to have all the other stuff.. 2012 ecu and wiring harness and throttle bodies..
If i was going to do that swap i would use all gen 1 wiring, ecu and TBs .. I know I know the gen 2 motor doesn't have the cam sensor on the head BUT you could drill a hole and install one ... The gen 2 motor still has the sensor bung on the cam ..In fact Chrsi jones said both cams have the bung ..
that cam timing is opening a big can of worms http://www.brocksperformance.com/instructions/Hayabusa/S1308-OCP_INSTRUCTIONS.pdf
thats what had to be done just for a little off set.. try making your own cam signal from scratch. might be easier to use a gen 1 head on a gen 2 motor and port the head
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smokinZX14
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posted September 04, 2012 06:59 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
i'm sure the motor will fit.. but the issue will be you will have to have all the other stuff.. 2012 ecu and wiring harness and throttle bodies..
If i was going to do that swap i would use all gen 1 wiring, ecu and TBs .. I know I know the gen 2 motor doesn't have the cam sensor on the head BUT you could drill a hole and install one ... The gen 2 motor still has the sensor bung on the cam ..In fact Chrsi jones said both cams have the bung ..
that cam timing is opening a big can of worms http://www.brocksperformance.com/instructions/Hayabusa/S1308-OCP_INSTRUCTIONS.pdf
thats what had to be done just for a little off set.. try making your own
1bad your are not going to change cam timing just by swapping motors .. All you are going to do is add a senson where there is not one . Roy welded a bung on his gen one intake cam so he could use it on the exhaust side .. It doesn't have anything to do with cam timing .. The sensor just tells the ecu what stroke the motor is in ... The new ZX14R motor has the bung allready on the cam so all that is needed is to drill a hole in the front of the head for the cam sensor ... It doesn't need to be right on the money because all it does is tell the ECU what stroke is happening at a given time ( intake or Exhaust ) ..
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smokinZX14
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posted September 04, 2012 07:05 PM
Don't worry Roy will have it all figured out before you buy a new zx14 motor anyway .. His plan is to install a zx14r motor in his old zx14 as soon as he can find one ..The problem is finding one ..
____________
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Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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FalldownPhil
Novice Class
CURMUDGEON
Posts: 99
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posted September 04, 2012 07:18 PM
quote:
I am sure it's been done, but if you are a grudge racer, do you tell others? Both engines are so similar that it is almost impossible to visually tell them apart.
Kofla, this is more of a question than anything else. I have only had a 14R but I thought that I had noticed that the oil drain plug on the early 14 was on the bottom of the oil pan and the 14R drains out the front of the pan next to the oil filter. It is very visible from the front. I wonder if the pans are interchangable? Otherwise, it would be a very visable indicator of which engine you were running.
Phil
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1badzx12r
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posted September 04, 2012 08:00 PM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 5 Sep 2012 04:06
quote:
that cam timing is opening a big can of worms http://www.brocksperformance.com/instructions/Hayabusa/S1308-OCP_INSTRUCTIONS.pdf
thats what had to be done just for a little off set.. try making your own
1bad your are not going to change cam timing just by swapping motors .. All you are going to do is add a senson where there is not one . Roy welded a bung on his gen one intake cam so he could use it on the exhaust side .. It doesn't have anything to do with cam timing .. The sensor just tells the ecu what stroke the motor is in ... The new ZX14R motor has the bung allready on the cam so all that is needed is to drill a hole in the front of the head for the cam sensor ... It doesn't need to be right on the money because all it does is tell the ECU what stroke is happening at a given time ( intake or Exhaust ) ..
i understand that .. but what you and roy don't understand is by just jerry rigging a lobe to get a signal from don't make it right or the right spot for peak performance .. like your buddy brock said in the link having the signal off may not even let a bike run .. when i said cam timing i meant ecu cam timing .. not cam degree timing.. roy do a dyno run before and after of modifacation of cams .. why not just drill that hole and use a gen 1 cam thats seems to be the easiest
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KoflaOlivieri
Expert Class
Posts: 298
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posted September 05, 2012 05:13 AM
Edited By: KoflaOlivieri on 5 Sep 2012 13:21
quote:
Kofla, this is more of a question than anything else. I have only had a 14R but I thought that I had noticed that the oil drain plug on the early 14 was on the bottom of the oil pan and the 14R drains out the front of the pan next to the oil filter. It is very visible from the front. I wonder if the pans are interchangable? Otherwise, it would be a very visable indicator of which engine you were running.
Phil
Phil, I hope someone who owned both motorcycles will chime in to shed some light. But remember, a modified/lowered oil pan drain plug is relocated anyway.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MODIFIED-LOWERED-ZX14-NINJA-ZX-14-ZX-14-OIL-PAN-SUMP-49034-0033-DRAGBIKE-/251137476069?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a78f5c5e5&vxp=mtr
Kofla
____________
Riding My Own Biography: (MotoVlog)
2010 Kawasaki ZX-14
1985 Yamaha V-Max 1200
1977 Kawasaki KZ 1000
1975 Kawasaki Z1 900
1974 Kawasaki H2 750
1972 Kawasaki H2 750
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KZScott
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posted September 05, 2012 05:48 AM
if the cam pos sensor had to be right on the money, we wouldnt be able to alter cam timing without reindexing the lobe. sticking the gen 1 sensor in the gen 2 head should work great
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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1badzx12r
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posted September 05, 2012 06:52 AM
quote:
if the cam pos sensor had to be right on the money, we wouldnt be able to alter cam timing without reindexing the lobe. sticking the gen 1 sensor in the gen 2 head should work great
then why would a person need to buy an off set pin for a busa cam to switch from gen 1 to gen 2 cams .. they use the same type sensor .. have you ever taught maybe by degreeing the cams you are getting the increase by aligning the lobe to sensor .. more so than for cam degreeing .. remember the connie 1400 has 2 cam sensors ..1 on intake cam and 1 on exhaust cam with the variable timing on the cams.. i'm not saying this is so or fact but its a possibility..
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Ninjawarrior1244
Expert Class
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posted September 05, 2012 07:12 AM
Yes it will fit, the stroke is the only thing different......from previous model years.
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Master
Expert Class
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posted September 05, 2012 08:27 AM
quote:
Yes it will fit, the stroke is the only thing different......from previous model years.
Then why not just put a the crank from a R into the non R
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wrongway
Pro
Posts: 1078
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posted September 05, 2012 08:31 AM
front upper motor mounts look different and the new frame is wider.
I bet a set of fabbed motor mounts for the head is needed, but anyone with a TIG and milling machine could do that.
as for cam position sensor ... the manual says that if the sensor fails , the motor will continue to run using he last known position until the motor is turned off.
cam position would only be used for sequential firing of injectors and discrete firing for coils.
with a wasted spark setup , no cam sensor is needed.
with injectors being batch fired , there is no need for a cam sensor. If your injectors are running 90% duty cycle , there is no need (or gain) for sequential injection timing.
Roy
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1badzx12r
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posted September 05, 2012 09:00 AM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 5 Sep 2012 17:02
quote:
as for cam position sensor ... the manual says that if the sensor fails , the motor will continue to run using he last known position until the motor is turned off.
Roy
yes it does.. but it doesn't tell you if that was your best known position for power..
theres a reason why some new bikes run great and some new bikes run like shitt..and it ain't always the rider..
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DocsNinja
Novice Class
Backs and Bikes is what I do..
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posted September 05, 2012 09:36 AM
quote:
quote:
as for cam position sensor ... the manual says that if the sensor fails , the motor will continue to run using he last known position until the motor is turned off.
Roy
yes it does.. but it doesn't tell you if that was your best known position for power..
theres a reason why some new bikes run great and some new bikes run like shitt..and it ain't always the rider..
Ibad the SS bikes end up with crazy cam numbers like 103 114 to clear the Valves after milling the snot out of the head...They seem to run fine ..And they don't move the bung on the cam after degree the cams ... Smokin...not Doc
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Slow14_Fz1
Novice Class
Posts: 83
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posted September 05, 2012 09:45 AM
quote:
quote:
Yes it will fit, the stroke is the only thing different......from previous model years.
Then why not just put a the crank from a R into the non R
The R model crank has the mains 2mm larger than the non R you would have to have the case machined or the crank machined for a proper fit but would work as a non-welded crank.
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