InlandEmpireRider
Novice Class
SoCalZX14
Posts: 50
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posted May 23, 2013 06:20 PM
Really sorry to resurrect this thread, but this is the most recent thread that comes up related to a
"zx14-takai-coil" search. Has anyone actually tested these Takai coils?
____________
-Eric in SoCal
06 ZX14, 8.96 @ 151.1 mph, 1.46 60 foot, 245-250 lb rider
Videos here: http://www.youtube.com/boostMD
  
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InlandEmpireRider
Novice Class
SoCalZX14
Posts: 50
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posted May 31, 2013 09:55 AM
 Edited By: InlandEmpireRider on 31 May 2013 18:22
Almost every thread I've followed on this subject includes someone claiming they are going to get a set of the super coils and post up the dyno results before/after.
...and every thread ends the same way... no dyno or track results before/after the coil install!
With guys spending $3000+ on BST's and ceramic wheel bearings for relatively small (but REAL) gains for the money, these coils don't seem that outlandish IF (big if) they make the power.
If they are proven to consistently make power, it seems that everyone in the 'fastest stock motor' race would use these! It seems everyone in this category is fairly upfront about their mods (usually lowered, extended, strapped, air shifted, mr12, BST's, ceramic wheel bearings, low-weight oil, dyno tune)... which makes it seem unlikely that these are a 'secret mod' that no one talks about.
So far, I've found two magazine articles (both referenced earlier in this thread)...
One does a back-to-back swap on a 2011 CBR1000RR and gains 3.5 whp/3.5 lb-ft wtq. (http://www.superstreetbike.com/howtos/1203_sbkp_2011_honda_cbr1000rr/).
Takai Super Coils: The other article is on a 2012 ZX14R that claims 6 whp and 2 lb-ft wtq, but it's unclear whether that hp came from fuel mapping + coils, or coils alone. (http://www.brocksperformance.com/brocknm/templates/bpp1.aspx?articleid=384&zoneid=8).
Of note, both of those articles are by the same magazine. The CBR article says they are 'Weapon X' coils. When I google 'weapon x coils zx14'... it seems that Takai is a division of Weapon X, so they are probably the same coils in both articles.
____________
-Eric in SoCal
06 ZX14, 8.96 @ 151.1 mph, 1.46 60 foot, 245-250 lb rider
Videos here: http://www.youtube.com/boostMD
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Oz Booster
Expert Class
Posts: 230
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posted May 31, 2013 01:28 PM
I for one are somewhat skeptical,
energy in has a relationship with energy out , you may put more windings in the coil and get some inprovement on voltage , but if you realy wanted to boost power then i can;t see it matching the likes of the NLR sim with its external power supply and bigger power requirements supplying more energy to the coils
or something like the AEM smart and dumb coils running 4 and 5 wires to the coils for higher current and better control
I do intend to scope all i have listed above in the near future, as my application is turbo , and looking at getting the best and simplest system for my $ when i change to methanol fuel and need as much spark energy as i can get
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smokinstorm
Zone Head
Old Drag Racer
Posts: 504
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posted June 04, 2013 03:49 PM
I sure hope someone actually gets to try these coils that doesn't have anything to gain by saying how great and wonderful they are. I can't afford to be the guinea pig but I sure would like to know.
____________
2009 Monster Edition ZX14
It's all stock I swear. Well...almost.
2005 Turbo Busa
2001 GSXR 1000
Looking for a 1985 GS1150E
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InlandEmpireRider
Novice Class
SoCalZX14
Posts: 50
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posted July 15, 2013 10:47 AM
Taken from the Takai Racing facebook page: (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Takai-Racing/384895034913129)
"Direct before and after results, no changes other than Takai Ignition Coils.
Testing by Danie Maritz Racing. http://daniemaritzracing.co.za/
CBR 1000
HP : Before coils : 174.97 after 179.87 (+5 hp)
TQ : Before coils : 110.14 after 112.43 (+2 rwtrq)
Power increase all through the rev range, +3 to 4 hp through the band and 5hp at max rpm.
Torque consistent (+2 tq) all the way through the rev range.
KAWASAKI ZX 10
HP Mid range : before 161.64 after 164.01 (+4hp)
HP TOP : before 184.81 after 185.93 (+1 hp)
The top end can be improved with tuning (adding fuel). Just before peak rpm.
Before 10000rpm the difference is +4 hp in favor of Takai where the graph starts to converge. Takai +1 hp at maximum rpm."
____________
-Eric in SoCal
06 ZX14, 8.96 @ 151.1 mph, 1.46 60 foot, 245-250 lb rider
Videos here: http://www.youtube.com/boostMD
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Master
Expert Class
If it ain't fast it aint me
Posts: 270
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posted August 01, 2013 08:36 AM
maybe this guy will chime in smoking.
have a set of them for testing .. I'm going to test them back to back , same day at the track ..I have 200 runs of data on my ZX14R so if there is anything to be had from this coils i will see it .. After the first test is done i'll add some fuel to the map and see if these hotter coils can burn the extra fuel .. Keep in mind i'm already running 8.40s so gains are most likely going to be small if any.. But in my case i'm looking for hundredths of a second .. You do 2 or 3 mods that gain hundredths of a second each and they start to add up to tenths and not hundredths .. 750 bucks is big money for a few hundredths of a second.. Most guys would never need or even feel gains but a few guys like me that are looking for every bit HP we can find without opening up the motor these may help ..
I feel as Ivan does , that the factory coils are very good to start with .. I will tell you something i found looking at the factory coil on my bike ..Pulling off the lower boot on the plug to get a look at where the coil plugs onto the spark plug i found a lot of tracking , meaning leakage of spark where it hooks to the spark plug ..That waste means it's not getting full power to the plug .. I was surprised to see this tracking .. It's something i have seen years ago on the old GM HEI system when GM first came out with the HEI.. I have not seen this on the new coil on plug style system ..The Takai coil looks to have a better gold plated fitting to the spark plug ..Maybe tracking and spark waste will not be a problem with the Takai coil ..Time will tell ..
I was told about these coils from the Vmax guys ..One of them i see at the track all the time , he did pickup ET and MPH with the coils and is very happy with them .. Other Vmax owners that don't race have picked up MPG with these coils ..They claim easier starting also ..The new Vmax is slow to start cold or hot and the coils helped this .. Snake oil ? Maybe ? .. Well they help the ZX14R ? Maybe ? ... I'll know in a few weeks ..
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cliffrandall
Zone Head
Posts: 757
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posted August 01, 2013 03:33 PM
We have them on the HT project.......Call me to discuss if you like 905-642-9298 Eastern Standard Time.
Cliff
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smokinstorm
Zone Head
Old Drag Racer
Posts: 504
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posted August 03, 2013 09:55 AM
Thank you for your time Cliff. You're a wealth of information.
____________
2009 Monster Edition ZX14
It's all stock I swear. Well...almost.
2005 Turbo Busa
2001 GSXR 1000
Looking for a 1985 GS1150E
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cliffrandall
Zone Head
Posts: 757
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posted August 03, 2013 10:12 AM
My pleasure Dave, good chatting and safe riding.
Cliff
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Romans
Expert Class
Posts: 294
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posted August 03, 2013 01:06 PM
Hey guys, is there anything you can share with the rest of us on line ???? We put these in my brothers M-109R, but all we have is Ass Dyno . He loves them, but that means nothing with out real world info. Secret ????? ZX -14 Facts would be great, please, do tell ?
____________
2012 ZX-14 R Turbo, 2010 ZX-14 Turbo, 2007 ZX-14, 2009 ZX-6R, YZ 450F
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cliffrandall
Zone Head
Posts: 757
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posted August 03, 2013 01:58 PM
Edited By: cliffrandall on 3 Aug 2013 22:06
As I told Dave and others - the HT project dyno'd 6hp more than any similarly piped and mapped ZX14-R at Champion Cycles, however we also used the coils, and 10x30 oil and World ceramic bearings - the million dollar question is which did what? IMO pipes are pipes, most produce about the same top end power, however Muzzy is certianly at the top of the list so maybe 1 more hp there.
That said, if you've got the budget, In this game every little thing helps.
Cliff
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smokinstorm
Zone Head
Old Drag Racer
Posts: 504
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posted August 03, 2013 05:23 PM
I think Cliff put it perfectly above. Cliff notes: They don't make less power than the stock coils and the stock coils are very good. That is the main thing I believe he's trying to get across to the masses.
____________
2009 Monster Edition ZX14
It's all stock I swear. Well...almost.
2005 Turbo Busa
2001 GSXR 1000
Looking for a 1985 GS1150E
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ZeX14
Parking Attendant
Posts: 19
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posted September 03, 2013 06:57 AM
quote:
Almost every thread I've followed on this subject includes someone claiming they are going to get a set of the super coils and post up the dyno results before/after.
...and every thread ends the same way... no dyno or track results before/after the coil install!
With guys spending $3000+ on BST's and ceramic wheel bearings for relatively small (but REAL) gains for the money, these coils don't seem that outlandish IF (big if) they make the power.
If they are proven to consistently make power, it seems that everyone in the 'fastest stock motor' race would use these! It seems everyone in this category is fairly upfront about their mods (usually lowered, extended, strapped, air shifted, mr12, BST's, ceramic wheel bearings, low-weight oil, dyno tune)... which makes it seem unlikely that these are a 'secret mod' that no one talks about.
I happen to agree and I have been in the background looking for some information on these and figured I would finally ask. Did anybody end up purchasing these? This is like the third time the thread seems to die with positive proof on other bikes but then speculation on the ZX14?
I found one verified 250 ninja on the spray that picked up about 8rwhp.
http://www.newninja.com/forums/f108/takai-hi-output-super-coils-8486-2.html
I happen to be on the spray as well so this peaked my interest.
I have also found information on a Yamaha VMAX forum where a verified 2-4hp is seen on the dyno with a straight before and after.
If they work I happen to agree. Picking up 2-4 more horsepower for a bolt on I can do myself is nothing to laugh at. I don't happen to think that an oil change will net any horsepower unless the oil is old. I know the project bike cliffrandel got was off the showroom floor so I am going to say that the oil picking up hp is moot. New ceramic bearings might net 2hp max so according to cliffrandal there is 4hp left on the table. But this is still speculation.
Any validated information on the ZX14 yet?
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted September 03, 2013 04:40 PM
Dynatek arc-2 gave me 3 hp on my high compression 1534. I would be surprised to see 6 hp on a stocker, from different coils.
Shane
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ZeX14
Parking Attendant
Posts: 19
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posted September 03, 2013 06:51 PM
Thanks but I am looking for results with the Takai coils, on the ZX14. I am calling them tomorrow to see if they can help out with a set so I can try. For a 250 Ninja to pickup 8hp on the spray with just a coil swap is insane. I can't see why there wouldn't be a change and the speculation / hearsay is driving me absolutely nuts. lol
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tuusinii
Pro
Posts: 1031
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posted September 03, 2013 09:49 PM
Even swapping the coils back to back on dyno to get the numbers wouldn't be definitive answer. As is with different plugs the coils can alter the time it takes the spark to ignite so the advance can be changed by swapping the coils. So the hp difference you see can be more from the advance change than the coils itself. The right way to do it is to tune both systems to their maximum and then look for the result. Just to keep in mind all the variables...
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BKnight
Parking Attendant
Posts: 20
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posted September 04, 2013 04:44 AM
I don't happen to think that an oil change will net any horsepower unless the oil is old. I know the project bike cliffrandel got was off the showroom floor so I am going to say that the oil picking up hp is moot. New ceramic bearings might net 2hp max so according to cliffrandal there is 4hp left on the table. But this is still speculation.
Changing the oil can and WILL definitely change the power! If you go from a heavy 10w40 or even higher to a lower weight oil like Alisyn less than Zero weight you can see nice gains. I've seen and performed tests first hand. I dynoed a 2011 ZX-10R, drained the oil (I believe it was factory oil) poured in Alisyn <0 and Petron Oil additive and picked up almost 5hp. This was performed back to back and within 30 minutes. So it does make a difference.
Ceramic bearings are also another great performance booster. I've talked to several racers who changed to ceramics from WorldWide Bearings this year (did not change rims, just bearings) and they picked up almost a tenth & 2-3 mph in the quarter mile.
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Tsaki
Parking Attendant
Posts: 11
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posted September 04, 2013 08:28 AM
I have tested back to back dyno zx14r almost 3000 miles old Valvoline 10w-40 durablend semisynth oil, drained out and poured in fullsynth Castrol Racing 1 5w-40...gained zero horsepower.
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Brock
Sponsor
Posts: 560
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posted September 04, 2013 09:04 AM
quote:
I have tested back to back dyno zx14r almost 3000 miles old Valvoline 10w-40 durablend semisynth oil, drained out and poured in fullsynth Castrol Racing 1 5w-40...gained zero horsepower.
I believe that all day long  lol!
Brock
Brock’s Performance
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eklipse636
Needs a life
ZX-14
Posts: 6046
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posted September 04, 2013 09:14 AM
quote:
I have tested back to back dyno zx14r almost 3000 miles old Valvoline 10w-40 durablend semisynth oil, drained out and poured in fullsynth Castrol Racing 1 5w-40...gained zero horsepower.
SMH..
Your not going to gain/loose hp when you start with 40wt oil and finish with 40wt oil.
____________
Best: 60ft 1.351 1/8 5.68 mph 123.98 1/4
8.89 mph 151.32
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Tsaki
Parking Attendant
Posts: 11
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posted September 04, 2013 09:19 AM
That is truth, tested couple weeks ago. Valvoline oils looks terrible, and i was sure there will be couple horses, but no single one. I have no reason to speak bs.
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Tsaki
Parking Attendant
Posts: 11
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posted September 04, 2013 09:32 AM
Edited By: Tsaki on 4 Sep 2013 17:49
Same day i tested also plugs, almost 7000 miles old stock iridium Ngk plugs, dynoed, switch new stock plugs and back to dyno...-1 horsepower  After these test i am quite skeptic if someone tell me that you get +6hp by "super" coils in stock zx14r 
By the way Brock...Alisyn 0w oil i gained 2hp...without Petron.
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Brock
Sponsor
Posts: 560
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posted September 04, 2013 10:23 AM
Edited By: Brock on 4 Sep 2013 18:34
Tsaki,
I believe that also, should have added the Petron - for double that gain.
But HP doesn't tell the whole story... Next time, look at the time it takes to accelerate on a specific section of the graph. I usually choose an area not subject to lag/bog down low or spikes from hitting the high limiter up top. Let's say 6K -11k. It's not uncommon for the Alisyn/Petron combination to accelerate .75 to 1 full second quicker over that range, compared to even a fantastic heavy weight oil like the Kawasaki 10W-40 full synthetic ,which is down little to no HP.
This translates into a measurable improvement in ET and MPH in the 1/4 mile of as much as .03 and 1 to 1.5 MPH...
Brock
Brock’s Performance
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ZeX14
Parking Attendant
Posts: 19
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posted September 05, 2013 06:43 AM
Edited By: ZeX14 on 5 Sep 2013 15:02
Some points to ponder with any oil. I will use 10w40 as example.
1) When the bike hits the dyno it's at operating temperatures and the oil viscosity should be at 40 weight.
2) When I put in new oil it is COLD and at 10 weight (thinner)
3) Used oil is used oil. Its dirty, has contaminates and will not lubricate as well as new oil... so yes... I 'should' see an improvement but new oil to new oil with similar properties like 10w30 or 10w40... I doubt it. I would wager there are plenty 10w40 brands that will out perform a competitor 10w30 so I am going to say MOOT on the Hypertouring bike. The OEM oil is generally of very high quality.
I do happen to agree I might see a consistent (hot or cold bike) hp or two with LESS oil, or extremely light weight oil like 0w20. Personally, I believe Mobile1 knows what they are doing and have a hard time believing in additives such as "slick50", but that is just my humble 0.03 cents.
Also, measurable dyno increases IMHO are measurable dyno increases. If someone tells me 4hp is dyno error, then I am going to say Brocks oil and filter dyno testing is bogus (being sarchastic here Brock as example) Same day, same dyno, it doesn't lie, especially if it is repeatable across several bikes.
BTW, I talked to Takai and he mentioned someone very recent on the 1/8th mile. I wanted proof so he actually sent me the link to a customers video and noticed on InlandEmpireRider's latest and best 1/8 mile video there is a Takai logo? Either the rider improved or the same day the coils went in his 1/8 mile improved. hmmm... anyway they guaranteed me improvements in my quarter mile or my money back. Might have to play that game.
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Brock
Sponsor
Posts: 560
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posted September 05, 2013 08:25 AM
ZeX14,
Just to be clear. I have never claimed that an oil FILTER has increased HP. Not replacing one (dirty for clean) or replacing brands etc. I have done much testing... no measurable increase EVER. Please note that I use OEM oil filters 9 times out of 10. We do use our billet, K&P cleanable filters in some applications, but I have never measured a power increase.
We EXPECT power and acceleration increases by switching to our Alisyn <<0 + Petron and are very surprised if we do not notice them. I can count the brands on one hand (maybe 1 or 2 fingers) that can compare.
Brock
Brock’s Performance
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