Romans
Expert Class
Posts: 294
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posted August 22, 2012 03:14 AM
 Edited By: Romans on 22 Aug 2012 11:32
Super High Output Ignition Coils! 6hp ?
To good to be true ? Thoughts ? Any one here tried these ?
I was just reading a article in SSB with re guards to performance upgrades tested on the 2012 14R. The Brock TiWinder with fueling via Bazzaz, gained six hp(seems real low). Ok that's not so interesting but what grabbed my attention was the test on the Takai Supercoils. The guys gained 6 more hp and 2ftlbs of torque,,,,, from a coil ?
quote:
You may want to know just how well Takai products stack up.
Latest side by side tests have shown Takai ignition products made more total peak and top end horsepower and torque on the latest 2012 Kawasaki ZX14 then a leading manufacturers FULL exhaust system and a premier air fuel tuning solution combined for less then 1/4th the cost.
Click
http://www.takai-racing.com/main/index.html
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2012 ZX-14 R Turbo, 2010 ZX-14 Turbo, 2007 ZX-14, 2009 ZX-6R, YZ 450F
  
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zixxer14
Pro
Damn that was Quick
Posts: 1233
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posted August 22, 2012 06:15 AM
Sounds like the 25hp chip on ebay....B.S.
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zx12mark
Pro
Posts: 1654
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posted August 22, 2012 06:54 AM
if it does i want to buy 4 right now .......lay em on me...............
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dakota9498
Pro
Posts: 1181
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posted August 22, 2012 07:34 AM
I have seen a few back to back dyno tests and they gain between 3-5hp, but they cost around $800, so have at it.
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2008 ZX14
Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. ~Mark Twain
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zx12mark
Pro
Posts: 1654
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posted August 22, 2012 10:10 AM
3 aint 6 for 800 bucks
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted August 22, 2012 10:35 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 22 Aug 2012 18:37
6 hp from coils alone? Somehow I am not buying that. That sounds like some serious marketing BS. Even if the coils were to make some power, they are not going to shape the powerband on top like an exhaust. To make power up top you need to move some air through the engine. And the full exhaust is designed to put the power in places that the oem systems just can't due to restriction and other tuning considerations.
I also can't imagine only 6 hp from a Tiwinder, if properly mapped. That seems highly suspect considering I saw 9 hp from my CT...without even mapping.
Shane
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Romans
Expert Class
Posts: 294
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posted August 22, 2012 11:14 AM
quote:
6 hp from coils alone? Somehow I am not buying that.
I also can't imagine only 6 hp from a Tiwinder, if properly mapped. That seems highly suspect considering I saw 9 hp from my CT...without even mapping.
Shane
Brock must also have a say in this rag ? Makes his pipe look week and coil a super star,,, slugger needs a run. I'm in, if #'s R for real, but if Brock does not confirm,,,, 4 get it. He has the most at steak here in the BS section. But what if,,, V-Max seems to like with ET's ???
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2012 ZX-14 R Turbo, 2010 ZX-14 Turbo, 2007 ZX-14, 2009 ZX-6R, YZ 450F
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JZX
Zone Head
Posts: 943
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posted August 22, 2012 12:12 PM
Not saying his Ti Winder made 6 hp with a map, but those who think a sidewinder type exhaust makes more hp then an under pan exhaust better wake up. The ONLY reason for a sidewinder is to allow for the bike to be lower to the ground.
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06 ZX14 65"
Best 1/8 mile 5.68@126.4 on a 1.41 60'
Best 1/4 mile 8.87@152.7 on a 1.47 60'
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Seno
Pro
BANNED FOR LIFE!
Posts: 1230
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posted August 22, 2012 12:21 PM
Edited By: Seno on 22 Aug 2012 20:46
Keep in mind, SSB has been advertising Takai coils in the back for some time, and a Dyno operator can "massage" the numbers a bit.... In my opinion Takai was not getting any business from their advertising, bitched to SSB. SSB then threw them in a feature article to drum up some advertising dollars and keep an advertiser....
BTW, I reached out to Takai and asked how much power they add on a ZX14R and I was told:
quote:
Unfortunately we do not release all test data such as dynos to customers due to scrutiny of the result source. What I do know is that the product is in use by professionals at the AMA and Superbike racing level. If you have any questions in regards to the product please don’t hesitate to ask. I will do whatever I can to help.
Can anyone on this forum with more than 2 posts validate their claim?
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2012 Black 14R -> Completely done!
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted August 22, 2012 12:25 PM
Well someone NOT Brock is going to send me a set and try them ... I'll find out if they work or not .. I don't how you could get 6 hp out of a set of coils myself .. I can't see spending 800 bucks for 5 or 6 hp either .. I can't see how our factory coils could be that bad ..??
I will add this the Vmax guys have tried them with remapping and they claim they make 6 hp more with them .. One of the guys that comes to the track alot with his Vmax has picked up ET and MPH with them , or it could be he is just riding better ..He is new to drag racing bikes , so he may be just riding better ..
If i ever get them i'll test them back to back same day at the track and tell you what happened ...
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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Wheelie
Needs a life
Old Man
Posts: 6902
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posted August 22, 2012 12:39 PM
quote:
I saw the SSB that showed those super coils and coincidently when I rode to Ivan's a couple of weeks ago I mentioned them to him. His feeling is that they were all hype, and for $750????? 6HP & 2TQ... Keep in mind, SSB has been advertising Takai coils in the back for some time, and a Dyno operator can "massage" the numbers a bit.... In my opinion Takai was not getting any business from their advertising, bitched to SSB. SSB then threw them in a feature article to drum up some advertising dollars and keep an advertiser....
BTW, I reached out to Takai and asked how much power they add on a ZX14R and I was told:
quote:
Unfortunately we do not release all test data such as dynos to customers due to scrutiny of the result source. What I do know is that the product is in use by professionals at the AMA and Superbike racing level. If you have any questions in regards to the product please don’t hesitate to ask. I will do whatever I can to help.
Can anyone on this forum with more than 2 posts validate their claim?
If Ivan said it, it must be true, lol
wee
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Seno
Pro
BANNED FOR LIFE!
Posts: 1230
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posted August 22, 2012 12:46 PM
Edited By: Seno on 22 Aug 2012 20:47
.... Special
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2012 Black 14R -> Completely done!
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smokinZX14
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Posts: 10197
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posted August 22, 2012 01:00 PM
Someone got a link to the SSB wite up ?
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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Wheelie
Needs a life
Old Man
Posts: 6902
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posted August 22, 2012 01:04 PM
http://www.takai-racing.com/main/
wee
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted August 22, 2012 01:07 PM
quote:
http://www.takai-racing.com/main/
wee
Wee that don't show any sidewinder testing or mapping ...I want to read this story that was in SSB magazine ...
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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Wheelie
Needs a life
Old Man
Posts: 6902
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posted August 22, 2012 01:10 PM
sorry still looking.
wee
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smokinZX14
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Posts: 10197
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posted August 22, 2012 01:11 PM
Edited By: smokinZX14 on 22 Aug 2012 21:20
The hole thing sounds strange to me ... What i'm hearing is they put a Brocks Side Winder on the bike and mapped it then added these super coils and got 6 hp ? What did they get out of the sidewinder and mapping without the coils ? Did they just try the coils by them selfs ? and what was the gain .. It makes it sould like they got nothing with the pipe and map but the coil made all the extra 6 hp ... Hell the pipe with NO map would make more than 6 HP ..
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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Romans
Expert Class
Posts: 294
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posted August 22, 2012 02:32 PM
In the rag it reads 12 hp gain total,,,,,, 6 from Brock pipe with Bazzaz Fueling. Additional 6 with coils. More gains per dollar with coils than pipe and Bazzaz combined ? how ?
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2012 ZX-14 R Turbo, 2010 ZX-14 Turbo, 2007 ZX-14, 2009 ZX-6R, YZ 450F
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Romans
Expert Class
Posts: 294
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posted August 22, 2012 02:41 PM
quote:
Well someone NOT Brock is going to send me a set and try them ... I'll find out if they work or not ..
If i ever get them i'll test them back to back same day at the track and tell you what happened ...
Real world info,,,, Awesome
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2012 ZX-14 R Turbo, 2010 ZX-14 Turbo, 2007 ZX-14, 2009 ZX-6R, YZ 450F
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted August 22, 2012 02:54 PM
just turn up the dwell a little on the oems, surely the guys hacking these things can do that the same as they are with ecu editor
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted August 22, 2012 04:44 PM
Edited By: smokinZX14 on 23 Aug 2012 00:54
quote:
In the rag it reads 12 hp gain total,,,,,, 6 from Brock pipe with Bazzaz Fueling. Additional 6 with coils. More gains per dollar with coils than pipe and Bazzaz combined ? how ?
I was able to find the write up ... The testing is strange , well the way they did the testing was strange .. They installed the Pipe and the Bazzaz but don't turn on the Bazzaz unit and got 6 HP, that in itself is low for just a Brocks pipe .. It should be closer to 9 hp just bolting on the pipe without a tune .. Then they turn on the tunner ( Bazzaz ) and install the coils and tune the engine ..
Why would you not tune the bike with the pipe and then install the coils and make another pull on the dyno and see what they really made in power ??? ..
I'm also not sure they know how to tune a bike with the Bazzaz unit .. It's not a P/C that you just load a map into .. The Bazzaz unit you need to know the best A/F ratio and you use that as a target .. Say you set it to 13.2 it will give you 13.2 but is 13.2 the best A/F for this bike ? I just don't think these guys know what the hell they are doing ..
Last but not least , if this coils are worth 6 HP you would think Brock , Muzzys , Adams and Schnitz be pushing the hell out of them on their websites ?
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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Obba
Expert Class
Posts: 455
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posted August 23, 2012 01:09 AM
Anybody with Electronics knowledge would tell you all how 'coils' work.
Primary and Secondary - that's it!
Ingnition cables do actually degrade, with the 'high energy' impulses being sent down them extremely often.
But it is VERY rare for them to 'fail' and AFAIK after 40-50K they should be replaced - that's how long they last.
Failing is only the failure (breaking down), of the insulating material that might allow the 'energy' that is being conductively sent to the spark plug and lost energy to be be 'sent' outside and not to the spark plug in whole...
Buying some nice high quality ignition cables is a good thing, if you're worried about it.
The coils only produce the voltage. The cables carry it and the plug inside the engine accepts the charge and it creates a spark.
It's the spark that ignites the fuel vapour. And since these bikes have very accurate AF's there can't be any more fuel vapour to burn.
Why do ICE's need a high voltage, when a match will ingnite fuel vapour?
Reason is: Is that it has to travel a distance!
Is distance a factor here?
A better insulated cable is FAR better in this case - if you want to split hairs.
IMO: Better off getting a dual node spark plug, just to make sure you burn every iota of vapour 
That's why diesel engines with the latest high pressure injectors do so well: They atomize the fuel so well.
I'll be very surprised if Smokin records any improvement.
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rod442
Novice Class
Posts: 33
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posted August 23, 2012 01:53 AM
Ill have to find it, but another mag did a test with a honda cbr that got 5hp out of the coils as well. Maybe even the same brand. I think it was ssb also, or is this what you are referring to.
here it is, same article? or was the one mentioned above zx14 specific?
http://www.superstreetbike.com/howtos/1203_sbkp_2011_honda_cbr1000rr/
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted August 23, 2012 03:54 AM
hey guys y'all need to add these $100.00 spark plugs too in order TO GET MAX HP.. http://www.ebay.com/itm/4X-BRISK-AOR10LGS-Spark-Plugs-GSX-R-1000-750-600-1300-HAYABUSA-GSX-R-1100-W-/150885910809?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item2321804919
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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Brock
Sponsor
Posts: 560
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posted August 23, 2012 06:59 AM
Edited By: Brock on 23 Aug 2012 15:01
Here is a link to the article:
Super Streetbike ZX-14R Long Term Test
Brock
Brock’s Performance
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