cliffrandall
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posted May 20, 2013 07:11 PM
 Edited By: cliffrandall on 21 May 2013 03:12
Great weekend of riding, final changes before heading to the dyno on June 1st, I fatten up the A/F from 7000-8000rpm (13 to1) from 13.5, I did this to help ward off any potential detontation in the torque power zone - 14 makes peak torque at approx. 7600rpm. If it's ever going to happen, typically its here........Our old theory used to be, "fatten them up in the middle, then start pulling fuel as the motor wind up!" Today via FI and this incredible Power Commander Wideband Auto Tune system, we can be much more accurate.......The hard bags are certainly creating drag, evidenced by the number of bugs the front faces are catching during each ride. Is it material, not sure, we'll know better when we do a top speed run. I continue to feel no buffeting whatsoever and I love the look and the space!
Cliff
  
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cliffrandall
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posted May 22, 2013 02:43 PM
Edited By: cliffrandall on 22 May 2013 22:44
Got a note today from a fellow who couldn't seem get his Muzzy n2o shifter to work properly on his 14 - apparently the ram would fire (make the up-shift) but would not release, so he was stuck in gear. I asked him if he had inadvertently 'plugged' the solenoid exhaust port when he assembled the kit? "The what?"
He had put a hex threaded nut into the '3rd port' on the Muzzy black rectangular plastic solenoid thinking it was designed to be filled. Because it was blocked, the system wouldn't allow the n2o to escape and kept the pressure on the ram. Quick fix, works fine now!
Cliff
P.S. - The distance from my rear bag (where the airshifter solenoid and all the rest of the Muzzy n2o hardware are located) has had no ill effect on either my shifter or the motor juice, everything works fine - fabulous products and simple to install.
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cliffrandall
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posted May 26, 2013 03:13 PM
Edited By: cliffrandall on 27 May 2013 02:30
Note of interest........Power Commander suggest that you not run F/A readings in the 0% of throttle grid on your PC map. Some bikes may not perform will if you do, however my Muzzy 14 o2 wideband port is buried well into the lower collector that it work fine providing full wideband coverage thru-out.........I run 13.5 to 1 in the 0% of throttle grid to 2000rpm then I go to 12 to 1 from 2000rpm to 11000rpm, all in the 0 column. The bike runs very well, always starts perfectly (cold or hot) idles smoothly and the 12 to 1 compensates nicely for an deceleration popping from high rpm roll off.....Food for thought.
Cliff
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cliffrandall
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posted May 26, 2013 06:45 PM
If anyone is interested in trying my PC5 'auto-tuned' map in their 2012-13 ZX-14R, let me know and I'll send you the file which you simply download to your PC5 laptop software and put into your PC5. You save your current map so if you ever want to go back, you can.
Send me a note to cliff@randallsearch.com
Cliff
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cliffrandall
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posted May 29, 2013 06:05 PM
Edited By: cliffrandall on 30 May 2013 02:28
1270 vs 1450 on the dyno this Sat!! Should be exciting to see the power difference. Here's the original dyno work we did on the 'Mike Crompton' built Muzzy 1270 back in 2001....FYI - when we got the bike out on the track at Mosport it struggled to pull redline in 4th & 5th down the back straight. We added 10pts of fuel on the PC3 and she came to life! The dyno map was unable to compensate for the ram-air effect. This came as a revelation to many tuners, who back in 2000 were not really sure if ram-air had any effect at all.
Cliff
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cliffrandall
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posted June 01, 2013 04:36 PM
Edited By: cliffrandall on 2 Jun 2013 03:39
Great day at the Champion Cycle dyno, Dan really knows his stuff, one of the best DJ guys I've ever seen. Sadly the humidity was friggin 77% at 26 degrees C and wet, not so good for power....Here we go, for reference purposes every dyno is different, Dan's produced 183hp with a stock 2012 ZX-14, a good benchmark for our work. Mine made 199.4HP/119T on the motor (SAE smooth factor 5 which is the lowest yet most accurate SAE number you can show) and 242.4HP/143T on the Muzzy juice at the rear wheel. To say the least we were all very impressed. I've attached a video of the run for you to enjoy, just listen to that tune.......BTW, Dan is a pro builder/tuner & a 7 second drag racer, he does this for a living. He said and I quote, "this Muzzy system is fabulous, I should be selling them". Dan also indicated that "any more power and we'd be into valve springs or a big problem, perfect set-up for a 14 out of the box".
I'll scan and post the dyno 'motor vs juice' comparison chart in the next day or so.....FYI video was done with 17/38 gearing in 4th gear, juice comes in from 7,500rpm to 10,500rpm........Bike hit 200mph in the top of 5th on the motor. We did not pull it in 6th......What a tremendous motorcycle, thanks to all of our many sponsors for making this happen.
Cliff
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extrapolator
Parking Attendant
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posted June 01, 2013 08:57 PM
He really said "fabulous"??
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cliffrandall
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posted June 02, 2013 03:39 AM
That's right, Dan was amazed with the Muzzy set-up, that I installed myself (dumbest guy in the room) in my garage. Very simple and powerful. The Muzzy air-shifter also worked flawlessly, requiring no adjustments whatsoever.......Champion Cycle can be reached at 416-658-7878 in Toronto.
Cliff
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PuckDracon
Novice Class
Posts: 48
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posted June 02, 2013 01:41 PM
Congrats! Imagine telling someone 10 years ago that with some nitrous and bolt-ons you could hit 242hp at the wheel on a stock motored bike - they'd call you crazy lol!
____________
2012 ZX14R. Too many pretty mods and not enough go fast ones.
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cliffrandall
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posted June 02, 2013 03:04 PM
Edited By: cliffrandall on 3 Jun 2013 02:36
And to think we started with an incredible 183rwhp right from the showroom floor! That's the most amazing part of this story for us old guys.......Who would have ever believed it back when we were riding around at 120mph on Honda 750 4's that made 70hp.....Here's mine 3 hrs after I bought it for 1800.00 new in 1971. One of the most memorable day's of my life.
Cliff
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cliffrandall
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posted June 06, 2013 10:50 AM
Edited By: cliffrandall on 6 Jun 2013 20:58
Got all the dyno numbers from Dan at Champion Cycle - if we were to use the often reported 'uncorrected' dyno numbers, sit down now boys.........the HT hit 202hp/119ftlbs of T on the motor & 252hp and 145ft/lbs of torque on the Muzzy juice. All this on a conservative dyno that produced approx.187hp 'uncorrected' on a stock 2012.
Incredible.....Just waiting for an SAE corrected graph from Dan that shows the 'stock bike' along with our motor/n2o pulls, in a 'triple comparison'. Then I'll post it right away for you to review.
Cliff
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cliffrandall
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posted June 07, 2013 12:22 PM
Edited By: cliffrandall on 7 Jun 2013 22:49
Dyno numbers as promised, on and off the juice, fully SAE smoothed and corrected - a good registration for your mods....Dan at Champion indicated that if you look closely at the n2o run you'll see the rear wheel was spinning - we simply couldn't strap it down enough to stop it!
Cliff
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
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posted June 07, 2013 01:54 PM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 7 Jun 2013 21:55
quote:
Congrats! Imagine telling someone 10 years ago that with some nitrous and bolt-ons you could hit 242hp at the wheel on a stock motored bike - they'd call you crazy lol!
14 years ago the zx12 was claimed before released to have 200rwhp STOCK ..
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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cliffrandall
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posted June 07, 2013 02:04 PM
Edited By: cliffrandall on 7 Jun 2013 22:36
Key work is claimed....."14 years ago the ZX-12 was claimed before released to have 200rwhp STOCK ."............FACT, a stock ZX12 in 2000, on the DPE Dyno in Toronto, made 162hp SAE corrected. The stock BUSA made 159 with more T then the 12......IMO, the 12 was a 'marketing' failure, great bike mind you. IMO Kawi have been chasing their tails until the intro of the 14R, finally the undisputed King of Power.
Cheers,
Cliff
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cliffrandall
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posted June 07, 2013 03:17 PM
Edited By: cliffrandall on 7 Jun 2013 23:17
Just for fun, here's the dyno graph in an 'uncorrected' STD format. This is the typical presentation method for the mags etc - shows the biggest number - 252hp!
Cliff
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1badzx12r
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posted June 07, 2013 03:44 PM
MY BIKE WOULD BREAK THAT DYNO
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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cliffrandall
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posted June 07, 2013 05:36 PM
Edited By: cliffrandall on 8 Jun 2013 01:51
Speaking of breaking stuff......Watch the video of my dyno run carefully and you'll see one of the rear tie-downs snap at about 9000rpm, I thought the bike was going to come right off the friggin drum!!!!!!
Cliff
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cliffrandall
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posted June 07, 2013 06:40 PM
Edited By: cliffrandall on 8 Jun 2013 03:12
Interesting to note that the motor made 'more power' on pump gas run, to 7500 rpm, then on the juice run. Reason - higher octane C12 was mixed for the n2o run. Perfect example of what higher octane does (slower burn with less power) when you don't need it, pre-juice. It's a trade off, a little protection for a few ponies down low, then big 'safe' power up top all day long.
Cliff
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1badzx12r
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posted June 07, 2013 07:15 PM
quote:
then big 'safe' power up top all day long.
Cliff
mmmmmm..... NO
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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cliffrandall
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Posts: 757
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posted June 08, 2013 03:41 AM
quote:
then big 'safe' power up top all day long.
Cliff
mmmmmm..... NO
Bad.......Not sure what you mean, what did we miss?
Cliff
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1badzx12r
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posted June 08, 2013 06:10 AM
quote:
what did we miss?
Cliff
you didn't miss nothing its the quote" SAFE AND ALL DAY POWER" that just don't go together .. unless its parked all day in the shade and never makes a pass.. i'm not hating just that I see a lot of N20 bikes at the track and most don't finish a 2hr race with 3 passes in the 1/8th mile . and when I use to go to LSR events I never seen a N20 bike finish the day on 4 cylinders .. looking at your A/F on that dyno graph on spray looks dangerous to me for a mile run ..
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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cliffrandall
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Posts: 757
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posted June 08, 2013 07:11 AM
Edited By: cliffrandall on 8 Jun 2013 15:52
Thanks Bad, but I respectfully disagree. Being a seasoned n2o racer myself, here's what you're looking at on the A/F....Perfect 13/13.5 to 1 mixuture thru-out the entire juice power range to 10,500 rpm (following our tests - o2 & EGT - that's what we determined THIS MOTOR LIKED and where it made the best power). Now at 10,500rpm we got off the juice and stayed on the motor to the 11,000rpm Don Guhl red-line, which shows a little leaner mixture as the PC5 'richer' nitrous map exits and adds timing from the default 'pump gas map' which replaces the n2o map the second we get off the button, slight nitrous residue was still in the box for a millisecond or two. FYI - I do not recommend more than a 10 second juice pull on any motor, which should be more than sufficient for most venues........IMO, the 14 loves juice, effortless power and if done correctly - on a dyno with o2 - you'll enjoy it for many yrs to come. Just be careful of backyard n2o tuners, that's where the problems usually start.......Any tuning questions, feel free to drop me a line at cliff@randallsearch.com
Cheers,
Cliff
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1badzx12r
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posted June 08, 2013 08:01 AM
quote:
FYI - I do not recommend more than a 10 second juice pull on any motor, Cliff
how long does it take to run a mile
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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1badzx12r
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posted June 08, 2013 08:20 AM
quote:
Any tuning questions, feel free to drop me a line at cliff@randallsearch.com
Cheers,
Cliff
When you can get your bike to make 25 to 40 passes on spray and run good numbers at a drag event every weekend . then i'll listen to your tuning advise.. Cheers
____________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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cliffrandall
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Posts: 757
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posted June 08, 2013 11:50 AM
quote:
quote:
FYI - I do not recommend more than a 10 second juice pull on any motor, Cliff
how long does it take to run a mile?
Good question - my 'initial' plan would be to get up into 6th and at about the 1/2 mile mark, hit the juice. Having never run a mile on this bike I'd be interested to know the best method used by 'mile experienced' 14 owners with n2o??
Thanks,
Cliff
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