Seno
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posted July 19, 2012 04:23 AM
 Edited By: Seno on 19 Jul 2012 12:24
Compare ECU flashes, I need your help
I have the ECUnleashed flash, anyone local to Long Island,NY that has Guhl or Ivan's? I have access to a dyno Tuesday-Saturday and would love to use the same bike (mine or yours) and swap out ECU's and get some "real" results who's flash makes the best power. Anyone game? There is quite a bit of speculation, and if you listen to everyone "selling" a flash.... Well of course they have the best one. Let's get some real results posted, with SAE numbers... Different flashes same bike....
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2012 Black 14R -> Completely done!
  
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cls
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posted July 19, 2012 05:01 AM
Interesting. Good info (hopefully) to come.
Much obliged.
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Seno
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posted July 19, 2012 05:12 AM
I got a response from Ivan on the other forum, he suggested that I take a ride to his shop (45 minutes away) and we can do some comparisons. Going to head there Saturday morning, if his schedule & the weather permit. Looking forward to getting some SAE comparisons done and swapping ECU's on both bikes to get some "real dyno" numbers. I have the Brock's CT installed on my bike, he likes Akro & Yosh (If my memory serves me right) from my past dealings with him, so maybe we can get some numbers from both bikes & both exhaust systems. He was always a good straight guy to deal with and I respect the fact that he was the first one to step up and suggest coming to his shop to check them out.
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2012 Black 14R -> Completely done!
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BobC
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posted July 19, 2012 06:26 AM
A question: I didn't think you could swap ECU's around without swapping the ignition key and lock barrel too. Aren't they matched to prevent hot-wiring and theft or are US bikes different?
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Candy Thunder Blue 2006 ZZR1400
Stock wheelbase
Max: 205.4 mph in 1.25 miles
2012 ZZR1400 in Golden Blazed Green
Brock CT Full System. etc
Max: 203.1 in 1 mile (so far)
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Creepy847
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posted July 19, 2012 06:49 AM
Hi Seno, Im thinking about taking a ride down there to. I live in RI and its about 150 miles or so from my house. Roughly a 3 to 4 hour drive depending on traffic of course. I still have my 14R stock, but am thinking about flashing the ECU. Im still not interested in a pipe or PCV since Im pretty happy with the stock bike.
Ill let you know when I plan to take a ride down. Ivan says he only works half days on Saturday so I would have to get an early start which isnt really a problem..... Might be safer to since I wouldnt have to deal with a ton of buttheads. Maybe we can meet at his shop?
Ill keep ya posted.
Creeps
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cls
Expert Class
Posts: 410
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posted July 19, 2012 07:56 AM
quote:
I got a response from Ivan on the other forum, he suggested that I take a ride to his shop (45 minutes away) and we can do some comparisons. Going to head there Saturday morning, if his schedule & the weather permit. Looking forward to getting some SAE comparisons done and swapping ECU's on both bikes to get some "real dyno" numbers. I have the Brock's CT installed on my bike, he likes Akro & Yosh (If my memory serves me right) from my past dealings with him, so maybe we can get some numbers from both bikes & both exhaust systems. He was always a good straight guy to deal with and I respect the fact that he was the first one to step up and suggest coming to his shop to check them out.
I have dealt w/both and was very satisfied w/both. I like the idea of greater streetability but I'd love to see the real world difference. If there is one to really speak of...
Keep us posted.
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Seno
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posted July 19, 2012 08:15 AM
quote:
Hi Seno, Im thinking about taking a ride down there to. I live in RI and its about 150 miles or so from my house. Roughly a 3 to 4 hour drive depending on traffic of course. I still have my 14R stock, but am thinking about flashing the ECU. Im still not interested in a pipe or PCV since Im pretty happy with the stock bike.
Ill let you know when I plan to take a ride down. Ivan says he only works half days on Saturday so I would have to get an early start which isnt really a problem..... Might be safer to since I wouldnt have to deal with a ton of buttheads. Maybe we can meet at his shop?
Ill keep ya posted.
Creeps
Sure, why not!
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2012 Black 14R -> Completely done!
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smokinZX14
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posted July 19, 2012 08:50 AM
Edited By: smokinZX14 on 19 Jul 2012 16:51
I like Ivans jet kits for the ZRX , i have used them many times and they were always spot on ...
Now on to this ECU flash thing, I want the best flash for drag racing ....
With that said have Ivan send me his flash and map and i'll do a back to back track test .. Because i don't really care what the dyno has to say ...Same day testing at the drag strip will tell the real story .. We don't race dynos we race bikes ..
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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davesxx01
Novice Class
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posted July 19, 2012 09:01 AM
Edited By: davesxx01 on 19 Jul 2012 17:03
Great to finally see a back to back comparison! Wish there was a Guhl flashed bike there too!
(I'd consider sending you my ecu overnight but its set up for a full stock bike)
smokin; I have the greatest respect for you and your posts but,,,, how the heck is Ivan suppose to "send you his flash and map"? to test on the strip???
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'01 CBR1100XX, '06 ZX-14, '08 ZX-14SE Brocks Street Smart, Rick Meyer seat, Risers, Throttlemeister, a few other goodies.
'09 MV Agusta Brutale 1078RR. Arrow full exhaust, Race ECU.
'12 ZX-14R Guhl flashed.
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smokinZX14
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posted July 19, 2012 09:05 AM
quote:
Great to finally see a back to back comparison! Wish there was a Guhl flashed bike there too!
(I'd consider sending you my ecu overnight but its set up for a full stock bike)
smokin; I have the greatest respect for you and your posts but,,,, how the heck is Ivan suppose to "send you his flash and map"? to test on the strip???
ECU fits fine a box From UPS..And he can email me the map..
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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Seno
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posted July 19, 2012 11:13 AM
quote:
I'm on 9W in Congers... I'm not sure when you last came to see me.
Saturday would be fine.
Try to be there before 11:00, I only work 1/2 a day....and come by yourself please.
Taken from my website:
Ivan's Rockland County Motorcycle
175 N. Route 9W - Unit #1
Congers, NY, 10920
Phone: 845-268-1212
Fax: 845-268-8291
Shop Hours:
Mon - Fri 10am-6pm
Sat 10am-2pm - Eastern Time
Sure, why not!
I might have been a bit presumptuous and don't want to sound like a dick, but I would call Ivan to make sure he does not mind if you show up or PM him on the "other forum" to make sure he's cool with it. I don't think there is any reason why he would not say sure, but didn't want to "overstep" my welcome.
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2012 Black 14R -> Completely done!
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WARBIRD
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posted July 19, 2012 11:24 AM
quote:
A question: I didn't think you could swap ECU's around without swapping the ignition key and lock barrel too. Aren't they matched to prevent hot-wiring and theft or are US bikes different?
Yes Bob, the US bikes are without the imobilizer like the Euro bikes. You can swap ecu's all day long. 
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I'd Rather Be Roadracing.
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toledoUPSguy
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An old guy with a new toy
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posted July 19, 2012 11:47 AM
eagerly awaiting the results of this. thanks for taking the time to do it. would be great if a brocks ecu showed up too.
Love smokins idea to, back to back at the drag strip.
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The man on top of the mountain didn't fall there.
2014 ZX14r in nuclear sunset orange and black
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Seno
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posted July 19, 2012 02:53 PM
Back to back at the drag strip is a great idea... He has the seat time for awesome consistency but regardless there are many variables that could affect the outcome. Dyno runs will only show part of the picture...
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2012 Black 14R -> Completely done!
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KoflaOlivieri
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posted July 19, 2012 03:00 PM
This is a win win situation, keep us posted!
Kofla
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2010 Kawasaki ZX-14
1985 Yamaha V-Max 1200
1977 Kawasaki KZ 1000
1975 Kawasaki Z1 900
1974 Kawasaki H2 750
1972 Kawasaki H2 750
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blue07
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posted July 19, 2012 05:44 PM
Edited By: blue07 on 20 Jul 2012 01:52
I'm curious as well.HOWEVER...talking about ECU flashing.I have the Guhl flash...the one designed for Brock's.PCV also with Brock's streetmap(2).No secondaries.Brock's single CT.
I hope I don't get flamed for this...but here goes.I have a factory ECU that I bought after the flashed one.Guys here are talking about 'streetability'.Okay....I reinstalled my factory ECU...stock factory settings...and kept the piping and PCV mapping(Brock's).I have to say right here..the factory ECU is MUCH smoother across the board...and...I didn't really notice 'too much' of a difference in performance either.There was a slight edginess to the GUHL flash.But it is vibey from low rpms and on up.Not terribly...but enough to notice and want gone.So that's my deal.Other than that vibing...the Guhl flash is a worthwhile enhancement...IF you like a somewhat 'edgier' responding bike.The temps and fuel mileage with the stock ECU are fine.Basically...the same as the flashed ECU.But the ride is noticeably smoother.FLAME ON!!!!
I do not want to contradict anyone here...Not IVAN...or Guhl...or anyone.Another 'flash setting' according to one person at least....reputable I must add....concerned 'ECU 'fail safe' programming.In all honesty here...I followed the guy's procedure for ''feeling' the ECU kick in 'in the background'...I have to say....and I did it just as he said to....I did NOT feel any kind of 'restricting' going on.NONE.She took off like a scalded baboon.....as always.Not saying it's NOT actually happening...but I certainly couldn't detect it...and I tried....several times and at several rpm/speed/gearing combos.
I'd definitely like to see on a dyno sheet where this 'restrictions' is supposed to be happening...and in what Ktrc mode she's in...if any.My bike was in Full power mode...and KTRC set to '1'.
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smokinZX14
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posted July 19, 2012 07:28 PM
quote:
I'm curious as well.HOWEVER...talking about ECU flashing.I have the Guhl flash...the one designed for Brock's.PCV also with Brock's streetmap(2).No secondaries.Brock's single CT.
I hope I don't get flamed for this...but here goes.I have a factory ECU that I bought after the flashed one.Guys here are talking about 'streetability'.Okay....I reinstalled my factory ECU...stock factory settings...and kept the piping and PCV mapping(Brock's).I have to say right here..the factory ECU is MUCH smoother across the board...and...I didn't really notice 'too much' of a difference in performance either.There was a slight edginess to the GUHL flash.But it is vibey from low rpms and on up.Not terribly...but enough to notice and want gone.So that's my deal.Other than that vibing...the Guhl flash is a worthwhile enhancement...IF you like a somewhat 'edgier' responding bike.The temps and fuel mileage with the stock ECU are fine.Basically...the same as the flashed ECU.But the ride is noticeably smoother.FLAME ON!!!!
I do not want to contradict anyone here...Not IVAN...or Guhl...or anyone.Another 'flash setting' according to one person at least....reputable I must add....concerned 'ECU 'fail safe' programming.In all honesty here...I followed the guy's procedure for ''feeling' the ECU kick in 'in the background'...I have to say....and I did it just as he said to....I did NOT feel any kind of 'restricting' going on.NONE.She took off like a scalded baboon.....as always.Not saying it's NOT actually happening...but I certainly couldn't detect it...and I tried....several times and at several rpm/speed/gearing combos.
I'd definitely like to see on a dyno sheet where this 'restrictions' is supposed to be happening...and in what Ktrc mode she's in...if any.My bike was in Full power mode...and KTRC set to '1'.
blue07 I see no reason for anyone to flame you .. You wrote what you felt .. But with your flies out you need not to worry about the safe mode .. Flies out takes care of the problem .. Now if you want to feel the safe mode as i have at the track put the flies back in along with the stock ECU ..
At the track i had the bike twice fall into the safe mode with the flies in place and stock ECU .. It also happened with Ivans TRE in place .. Simple removing the flies COMPLETELY removes the safe mode .. Having the flies out will cost you one or two HP up top .. It seems the flies help the Air flow at higer RPMs just a bit .. Not that you or myself would ever feel the difference ..
As you know i have the Guhl , Brocks Flash in my bike ... 500 more RPMs , removed the top speed limiter , and it uses a different timing map .. The difference in timing is very very small ..But on the dyno it made a bit more HP .. I'm using Brocks first street map for pump gas ... I have not installed Brocks street map 2 for better low end fueling ...I see no need because the bike runs fine for me as is ..
Now if Guhl has found a way to keep the flies open all the time that would restore that high RPM HP loss by having the flies out .. That would be a good thing .. What Ivan seems to be saying is he and Guhl have done just that and i'm sure Brock has also done that .. Guhl and Brocks have been working closely on this for some time .. Last time i talked to Brock slugger was back on the dyno testing ECUs flashes .. That was a week or so back and that is all the info i have for right now ..
AS soon as i can i will get more info ..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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blue07
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posted July 19, 2012 07:36 PM
 ...ya...okay...had no idea it was a fly thing going on.Okay then...no sweat.I've got that same flash you have.Keep kickin azz Smokin!More vids!
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smokinZX14
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posted July 19, 2012 07:46 PM
quote:
...ya...okay...had no idea it was a fly thing going on.Okay then...no sweat.I've got that same flash you have.Keep kickin azz Smokin!More vids!
Will do .. Test is getting harder to get around here .. We have had rain every single day here for weeks on weeks , in fact we are busting records for rain fall here in FL for June and July .. Both race tracks are under water now .. Both tracks have water seeping up for the cracks in the track .. The sun comes out and the track blisters up all the rubber from the water below .. This is the worst i have ever seen .. But i will get back out soon i hope to test some new tricks and hope i can raise the bar a bit more ..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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BobC
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posted July 20, 2012 12:54 AM
quote:
quote:
A question: I didn't think you could swap ECU's around without swapping the ignition key and lock barrel too. Aren't they matched to prevent hot-wiring and theft or are US bikes different?
Yes Bob, the US bikes are without the imobilizer like the Euro bikes. You can swap ecu's all day long.
Thank you, that question was bugging me.
I assume (I'm hoping) that a flashed ECU for a Euro bike will still recognise it's unique ignition lock and key?
____________
Candy Thunder Blue 2006 ZZR1400
Stock wheelbase
Max: 205.4 mph in 1.25 miles
2012 ZZR1400 in Golden Blazed Green
Brock CT Full System. etc
Max: 203.1 in 1 mile (so far)
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bluestar
Parking Attendant
Posts: 20
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posted July 20, 2012 03:16 AM
"I hope I don't get flamed for this...but here goes.I have a factory ECU that I bought after the flashed one.Guys here are talking about 'streetability'.Okay....I reinstalled my factory ECU...stock factory settings...and kept the piping and PCV mapping(Brock's).I have to say right here..the factory ECU is MUCH smoother across the board"
blue07 - I am having the same questions as you regarding the reflash. I put the TiForce full system on my 14R and it is very smooth and strong with the factory mapping. I gained about 3 mpg with just this change, lower operating temperatures and and no apparent fueling issues anywhere. Maybe Kawi figured no one in their right mind would ride this thing with the factory balast tanks installed and compensated somehow. In any case, this testing could really put some light onto reflash area,
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12 ZX14R SE
11 ZX10R
09 ZX14 SE
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cls
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posted July 20, 2012 03:25 AM
quote:
blue07 I see no reason for anyone to flame you .. You wrote what you felt .. But with your flies out you need not to worry about the safe mode .. Flies out takes care of the problem .. Now if you want to feel the safe mode as i have at the track put the flies back in along with the stock ECU ..
At the track i had the bike twice fall into the safe mode with the flies in place and stock ECU .. It also happened with Ivans TRE in place .. Simple removing the flies COMPLETELY removes the safe mode .. Having the flies out will cost you one or two HP up top .. It seems the flies help the Air flow at higer RPMs just a bit .. Not that you or myself would ever feel the difference ..
As you know i have the Guhl , Brocks Flash in my bike ... 500 more RPMs , removed the top speed limiter , and it uses a different timing map .. The difference in timing is very very small ..But on the dyno it made a bit more HP .. I'm using Brocks first street map for pump gas ... I have not installed Brocks street map 2 for better low end fueling ...I see no need because the bike runs fine for me as is ..
Now if Guhl has found a way to keep the flies open all the time that would restore that high RPM HP loss by having the flies out .. That would be a good thing .. What Ivan seems to be saying is he and Guhl have done just that and i'm sure Brock has also done that .. Guhl and Brocks have been working closely on this for some time .. Last time i talked to Brock slugger was back on the dyno testing ECUs flashes .. That was a week or so back and that is all the info i have for right now ..
AS soon as i can i will get more info ..
That'd be great. I've gotten all my stuff from Brock and I'd love to stick w/him, knowing he'll cover me down the road for whatever additional he finds out about the 14R and/or for whatever I need.
Much obliged.
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Seno
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posted July 20, 2012 03:35 AM
Edited By: Seno on 20 Jul 2012 11:39
quote:
"I hope I don't get flamed for this...but here goes.I have a factory ECU that I bought after the flashed one.Guys here are talking about 'streetability'.Okay....I reinstalled my factory ECU...stock factory settings...and kept the piping and PCV mapping(Brock's).I have to say right here..the factory ECU is MUCH smoother across the board"
Nothing to get flamed for, I agree with you. Before any mods the bike was very smooth, linear and deceptively fast. Since the pipe was installed (first mod), the smoothness started to fade away bit by bit... After ECU, pipe, map and other goodies it feels much faster than stock but not quite as smooth. It's definitely much faster than stock and my personal dyno numbers have showed a 16HP gain and 7 torque from stock with 10-40 synthetic...
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2012 Black 14R -> Completely done!
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davesxx01
Novice Class
Posts: 74
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posted July 20, 2012 07:49 AM
Edited By: davesxx01 on 20 Jul 2012 15:54
Smokin:
When I talked to Don last week he told me that he would be "out of the office" for most of this week/weekend as he and Brock were getting together to try some "new things" out.
The way I took his statement that can only mean new and/or more goodies for us.
Although I am not or probably never will be a drag racer, I got the full package including timing and fueling for stock pipes.
Don stated that once I get a slip on or full system that he had a few different maps for that also.
Don also offers free updates to his maps if they find anything new so it will only cost me shipping.
Thoughts on Don's fully loaded ECU?
Love the mid range boost in torque!!!
Switching "on the fly" is really nice.
I got my bike dynoed bone stock but only got a HP figure as they couldn't figure out where to tap for the RPM signal. It put down a max of only 183 WHP. I will be going back again to get a re dyno now that I have this flash to see the mid range boost and to see if the top end changed any.
Really interested to see what Ivan has to offer though,,,, still a total toss up on who's exhaust/mapping to use though.
I've decided that I want quiet power for my many highway trip's. Kinda interested in Brock's CT with the "quiet kore" or even the Akra or some other "EU" rated muffler (Read quiet).
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'01 CBR1100XX, '06 ZX-14, '08 ZX-14SE Brocks Street Smart, Rick Meyer seat, Risers, Throttlemeister, a few other goodies.
'09 MV Agusta Brutale 1078RR. Arrow full exhaust, Race ECU.
'12 ZX-14R Guhl flashed.
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CajunBoyz
Zone Head
Posts: 702
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posted July 20, 2012 08:28 AM
I betcha a extra brand new ECU is some $$$$$???
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"Cajun Boyz with Bad Ass Toys"
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