88mmrocket
Parking Attendant
...waiting to get home
Posts: 24
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posted June 27, 2012 11:56 AM
quote:
quote:
whoever told you that you can't detonate with E85 was an idiot! We all run boosted V8s and I am one of the few remaining that is still running gas...C16. I can show you many-a-pistons that have been killed from detonation from people who have thinking like this. I agree that it will be ok to switch but the benefit from switching in a NA application is very minimum from that standpoint alone.
I will however agree that you can throw more timing at in a boosted application but to say it WON'T detonate is completely idiotic.
Ever heard of something called "figure of speech"? No, didn't think so.
using "figures of speech" like this will cost the uneducated a shit ton of money if they took what YOU said literally. In a situation like this where someone, the OP, is genuinely asking technical questions "figures of speech" like you used shouldn't be said at all.....unless you say it in the same sentence that it is such.
I don't know your back ground and you don't know mine. I am not gonna play the silly games that get played on the internet in HERE! I am here to learn about my new scooter, just like everyone else who frequents this forum. A lot of good info gets passed and I appreciate everyone sharing the good information but when I see something that is just wrong, I will say it. 2thumbs ....carry on.....
Ken
  
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Rich
Expert Class
Just havin' fun!!
Posts: 300
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posted June 27, 2012 04:06 PM
No precautions needed. I keep a plastic jug of E85 in my garage most of the time. It may be full or not quite full. Depends on how much I used at the track over the weekend. I haven't noticed any problems with it sitting for a month or more.
It is very forgiving on AFR. It can be WAY rich and still have good power. It is still safe to say that 12.5 is better than 11.5, but I've had mine really rich when switching to a higher flowing pump and starting test runs to lean it back out after each run.
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07 Green and Black, How fast is fast?
203 for now. Limited $$ = limited HP.
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codyc_13
Expert Class
Posts: 342
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posted June 27, 2012 07:00 PM
Thanks for the info guys, called the station that was suppose to carry it, and they no longer have it, the next closest place is 2 hours away, I will probably still test it when I get a chance.
Does anybody know about how long it will keep in a seal container that's filled to the brim? I've seen people say it was still good after a month, but will it stay good longer??
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06 zx14, 65", lowered, muzzy pipe, pcIII, air shifter, Litz revalve, Adams cut seat, OSR cut pan 87 pump gas.
8.97 at 149mph
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kawasakijockey
Pro
Posts: 1876
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posted June 27, 2012 07:04 PM
Cody, the Kroger stores here sell the E85. Maybe you can check for one of them.
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Get on the shortbus boys 'cause its time to get schooled.
2007 ZX-14
1.38 60ft
9.03 @ 149mph
8.95 @153 small shot n2o
8.68 @160mph 5lbs boost
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codyc_13
Expert Class
Posts: 342
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posted June 27, 2012 07:07 PM
Thanks for the info James, the website I was on didn't show anything on this side of Houston, I will check into it.
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06 zx14, 65", lowered, muzzy pipe, pcIII, air shifter, Litz revalve, Adams cut seat, OSR cut pan 87 pump gas.
8.97 at 149mph
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kawasakijockey
Pro
Posts: 1876
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posted June 27, 2012 07:23 PM
 Edited By: kawasakijockey on 28 Jun 2012 03:29
Over east of you in the Natches area there seems to be a few e85 stations. Edit: Nevermind , too far away.
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Get on the shortbus boys 'cause its time to get schooled.
2007 ZX-14
1.38 60ft
9.03 @ 149mph
8.95 @153 small shot n2o
8.68 @160mph 5lbs boost
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Bueller
Novice Class
Posts: 97
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posted June 27, 2012 07:25 PM
Robert, or any that know. Is there any problems with e85 being in the bike for prolonged amounts of time? or is it safe to leave in as a semi daily rider, or between track visits?
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smokinstorm
Zone Head
Old Drag Racer
Posts: 504
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posted June 27, 2012 07:28 PM
quote:
Robert, or any that know. Is there any problems with e85 being in the bike for prolonged amounts of time? or is it safe to leave in as a semi daily rider, or between track visits?
Didn't even think about this but I sure hope not. Ii mean, flex fuel cars run this all the time with no problems but I don't know what precautions were built into them to allow them to keep it in the tank and fuel system all the time. Hopefully none.
____________
2009 Monster Edition ZX14
It's all stock I swear. Well...almost.
2005 Turbo Busa
2001 GSXR 1000
Looking for a 1985 GS1150E
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted June 27, 2012 07:30 PM
quote:
Robert, or any that know. Is there any problems with e85 being in the bike for prolonged amounts of time? or is it safe to leave in as a semi daily rider, or between track visits?
Roy has been using it for years now in his ZX14 and not a single problem ..His land speed recoreds were done on E85 .. He really likes E85 ..
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted June 27, 2012 07:34 PM
quote:
Robert, or any that know. Is there any problems with e85 being in the bike for prolonged amounts of time? or is it safe to leave in as a semi daily rider, or between track visits?
no issues with it setting.. except maybe venting off octane ..like any gas over time losing strength...
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted June 27, 2012 07:34 PM
quote:
quote:
Been doing some research and thinking about making the switch to E85, but want to make sure its as easy as it sounds. My bike isa 100% stock motor 06. From what I read all I have to do is add about 30% fuel to my map as a starting point.
It it correct that:
1. The stock fuel pump and injectors will be fine on a stock 06.
2. There is no need to crush the regulator in a stock bike.
3. Similar gains to Mr12 with a good tune.
I had more questions than that, but am drawing a blank right now.
I don't agree with #3. You can make stupid power on a boosted application with e85 because you can keep throwing boost and timing at it and it just won't detonate. The cooling effect of the fuel also helps control the detonation. It doesn't help as much in a non boosted application. I just can't see it making as much power as MR12 in an application that doesn't need the cooling effect from the fuel or the octane of e85. I will try to run it in any boosted application though.
We tested e85 on roys stock zx14 .. 162 with pump gas gas and 167 to 168 on E85 if i remember right .. That a pretty good gain 6 to 7 hp on a stock zx14 .. would MR12 do that for a stock bike ? This was done on the same dyno within 15 mins time .. Pretty telling if you ask me ..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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codyc_13
Expert Class
Posts: 342
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posted June 27, 2012 07:38 PM
Thanks Lee, do you remember what AFR got you that 6-7hp? I've been told it likes to be on the rich side.
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06 zx14, 65", lowered, muzzy pipe, pcIII, air shifter, Litz revalve, Adams cut seat, OSR cut pan 87 pump gas.
8.97 at 149mph
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smokinstorm
Zone Head
Old Drag Racer
Posts: 504
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posted June 27, 2012 07:41 PM
quote:
We tested e85 on roys stock zx14 .. 162 with pump gas gas and 167 to 168 on E85 if i remember right .. That a pretty good gain 6 to 7 hp on a stock zx14 .. would MR12 do that for a stock bike ? This was done on the same dyno within 15 mins time .. Pretty telling if you ask me ..
That's more of a gain than I would have expected for e85 in an application that didn't need the added octane. Thanks for sharing that. MR12 should be worth even a few more ponies than that though. My MR9 tune gained 10 vs pump gas. MR12 should be worth even a couple more. but I'm not completely stock so maybe the oxygenated fuel helped me more than on a bone stock version.
____________
2009 Monster Edition ZX14
It's all stock I swear. Well...almost.
2005 Turbo Busa
2001 GSXR 1000
Looking for a 1985 GS1150E
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted June 27, 2012 07:46 PM
quote:
Thanks Lee, do you remember what AFR got you that 6-7hp? I've been told it likes to be on the rich side.
I know it was fat , like 11.5 when we started .. I think we ended with 12.5 ? ... You would have to ask Roy for sure .. I do know we started off with 40% extra on the hole map and after playing with it we ended up at about 35% on the top half of the map to get the Best HP .. Again Roy is the guy to ask .. His memory is much better than mine .. And he still has the maps and dyno run charts from my dyno ...
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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smokinstorm
Zone Head
Old Drag Racer
Posts: 504
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posted June 27, 2012 07:54 PM
Remember now e85 isn't 14.7 A/F for complete burn like gas. It's more in the 9.7 A/F range.
____________
2009 Monster Edition ZX14
It's all stock I swear. Well...almost.
2005 Turbo Busa
2001 GSXR 1000
Looking for a 1985 GS1150E
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01smokes
Needs a job
Posts: 2243
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posted June 27, 2012 08:26 PM
quote:
Remember now e85 isn't 14.7 A/F for complete burn like gas. It's more in the 9.7 A/F range.
We always tune it the same as regular gas on the wideband.
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PayPal, vigilart22@yahoo.com
Email, artvgl@yahoo.com
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted June 28, 2012 03:25 AM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 28 Jun 2012 11:26
quote:
quote:
Remember now e85 isn't 14.7 A/F for complete burn like gas. It's more in the 9.7 A/F range.
We always tune it the same as regular gas on the wideband.
surely you didn't run 13.5 on WOT .. no wonder your bike was slow .. it wasn't staving for air at 9000 DA ...I DID A/F ALSO BUT LAMBA IS HOW YOUR SURPOSED TO TUNE BY ACCORDING TO THE INTERNET EXPERTS..
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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miketmmns
Expert Class
Posts: 205
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posted June 28, 2012 06:24 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Remember now e85 isn't 14.7 A/F for complete burn like gas. It's more in the 9.7 A/F range.
We always tune it the same as regular gas on the wideband.
surely you didn't run 13.5 on WOT .. no wonder your bike was slow .. it wasn't staving for air at 9000 DA ...I DID A/F ALSO BUT LAMBA IS HOW YOUR SURPOSED TO TUNE BY ACCORDING TO THE INTERNET EXPERTS..
Can you explain this. I own smokes old bike and I want to make sure the a/f is correct. This is my first
E85 bike.
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted June 28, 2012 06:39 AM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 28 Jun 2012 14:41
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Remember now e85 isn't 14.7 A/F for complete burn like gas. It's more in the 9.7 A/F range.
We always tune it the same as regular gas on the wideband.
surely you didn't run 13.5 on WOT .. no wonder your bike was slow .. it wasn't staving for air at 9000 DA ...I DID A/F ALSO BUT LAMBA IS HOW YOUR SURPOSED TO TUNE BY ACCORDING TO THE INTERNET EXPERTS..
Can you explain this. I own smokes old bike and I want to make sure the a/f is correct. This is my first
E85 bike.
http://e85forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=1146
here set back and read some its the best was to get an idea of e85 and then make your own judgement off what you read [not just my link] and have tried [ google is your freind].... my bike like 11.2 to 11.8 a/f i never hurt anything on those numbers with e85 in 2 years and 1000's of passes and made a buttload of power ..13.5 would make my bike break-up ..only reason i don't read in lamba is the DJ powercommand can't do it .. i want to cause its a better way
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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01smokes
Needs a job
Posts: 2243
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posted June 28, 2012 08:22 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Remember now e85 isn't 14.7 A/F for complete burn like gas. It's more in the 9.7 A/F range.
We always tune it the same as regular gas on the wideband.
surely you didn't run 13.5 on WOT .. no wonder your bike was slow .. it wasn't staving for air at 9000 DA ...I DID A/F ALSO BUT LAMBA IS HOW YOUR SURPOSED TO TUNE BY ACCORDING TO THE INTERNET EXPERTS..
Fuck no lol. I tuned it 11.2-11.4 some spots were around 11.6 but that was as high as I would take it. That's the same as I do on gas too.
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Email, artvgl@yahoo.com
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Swiftkart
Expert Class
Posts: 349
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posted June 28, 2012 08:41 AM
Been running E85 for 4 yrs, it makes right at 5 to 6hp over pump as Lee stated on a NA 06 zx14, the AFR is the same as you would jet pump or race gas if you are using a standard AFR gauge because it will requre you to add almost 30% more fuel to get to a 12.8 or 13.0, I leave it in the tank over the winter every year with no problems, E85 has like 33% oxygen, that's where some of the extra hp comes from on a NA motor, along with the cool burning, never could find any gains from advancing the timing with it, I always loss power, even if I richened it up, from Dyno testing MR12 does make another 4 to 5hp over E85 if you want to spend that kind of money for max power, the 5 to 6hp gain is enough for when you add up the cost.
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2006 ZX14, Brock CT-Meg, PC, ignition module, E85, 214 lbs suited, 8.96@152.32 1.46 60'
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toledoUPSguy
Expert Class
An old guy with a new toy
Posts: 320
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posted June 28, 2012 10:53 AM
E85 is easy for me to get so this topic has me curious. Smokin showed a 5-6hp gain on an otherwise completely stock bike? Will the stock pump and regulator on the 14r flow the extra needed fuel? Is this something you are thinking of running just at the track on a 2 map setup or running full time?
my 2010 F-150 is a flex fuel vehicle and according to ford makes more hp and torque on e85 but fuel mileage goes way down pulling a trailer. Without a trailer mileage doesn't suffer too bad.
____________
The man on top of the mountain didn't fall there.
2014 ZX14r in nuclear sunset orange and black
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codyc_13
Expert Class
Posts: 342
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posted June 28, 2012 11:30 AM
This will be a track only fuel for me, the only reason I want to use it is the extra power. My bike doesn't see the street much at all. There are a few guys running it full time on the street in NA engines. Im not sure what size injectors the 2012 has, but it is something you want to consider.
From my research the 06/07 has no problem running e85 up to around 200hp, but the 08+ has smaller injectors and won't flow enough fuel without modifications. I think the 06/07 has 430cc injectors and the 08+ has 330cc injectors.
____________
06 zx14, 65", lowered, muzzy pipe, pcIII, air shifter, Litz revalve, Adams cut seat, OSR cut pan 87 pump gas.
8.97 at 149mph
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Bad in Black
Expert Class
Posts: 348
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posted June 29, 2012 05:56 PM
quote:
Thanks for the info guys, called the station that was suppose to carry it, and they no longer have it, the next closest place is 2 hours away, I will probably still test it when I get a chance.
Does anybody know about how long it will keep in a seal container that's filled to the brim? I've seen people say it was still good after a month, but will it stay good longer??
With a fuel stabilizer I've had gas sit for years and still run fine on the street. I helped my dad gets some old cars started to sell that hadn't ran in well over 30 years, and they ran on the old gas in the tank. I know they should have got some fresh, but my dad just wanted to get them to start for the sale, didn't want to hassle with fresh gas lol.
BTW they didn't get fresh oil either 
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted June 29, 2012 07:45 PM
I was just talking to Roy about this tonight .. I asked him if i could use it in my new zx14R .. He said if the injectors are the smaller ones like the 2008 to 2011 you CAN NOT add the extra fuel to make it work, the injector is too small to flow that extra 30% to 35% of fuel needed .. You would have to use the larger 2006 to 2007 larger injectors ..
I have no info on the injector size for the new ZX14R , so before you try this you better check first..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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