BobK
Expert Class
2012 ZX14R SE
Posts: 195
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posted February 07, 2012 06:21 PM
quote:
shiphteey I think you and shane both want the same thing ... 9/10 race with a slow roll start at 40 MPH in first gear... I have a ZX14R so i know what happens at 40 MPH in first gear at stock wheel base ..No matter how easy you twist the throttle the bike goes 12:00 O"clock ... Race over for the ZX14R ... Your zx12 will just roll way from him while he watchs you drive away .. If shane goes to lets say 62 inch wheel base it will still do the same thing or it will blow the tire off .. If he goes 64 inches he will do nothing but spin for 9/10s of a mile ..This bike is very very hard to ride fast .. Look how many runs Ricky had to do to get a handle on the power and put down a good run at stock wheel base ..And he is a Pro .. I know you have not rode the new zx14 yet but it's as hard to ride as Roys 1530 bike and you have rode that bike pleanty ..So the way i see it you can give him all the wheel base he wants because it not going to help him ( not on the street anyway ).. At a sticky track it will but you guys are talking on the street .. I only see one fair way to pull this off , both bikes in 2 gear at 60 MPH roll, both bikes stock wheel base ... Run the full 9/10s ..
Funny, after all 7 pages of comments were back to talking about racing from a roll because it is too difficult to make things fair any other way. Which was the whole idea of racing from a roll, making it more about the bike and less about the rider.
  
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shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
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posted February 07, 2012 06:22 PM
Believe it or not wee I respect your opinion as I do Smokin's. But the fact remains I can't, and won't just give up wheelbase "just like that". Smokin, even stock arm the 14R sits naturally longer and lower than the 12, that is no secret.
If Shane agrees to run stock arm to stock arm I'd lock it in with him in an INSTANT! I'm that eager. But since he wants to stretch (you don't see me berating him for his choice, that is his preference) then I just have to see what speeds I can manage to go WOT on the stock arm bike.
Gotta walk the dog and get some zzzs. Peace out.
A.
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Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
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Wheelie
Needs a life
Old Man
Posts: 6902
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posted February 07, 2012 06:24 PM
quote:
Smokin, I'm listening to you, I hear ya. But at 60 mph I can't "make him" go into 2nd and I shouldn't be "forced" to go into.
I have done 2nd gear rolls at those speeds....the 12R doesn't go anywhere. This bike is made to be redlined at about 83 mph in 1st gear. 12R doesn't have torque. It just don't go. I've already done that with a 1340 busa....it jumps out every time and we lock up. Shane has 101 ccs more than that, he will probably jump more.
I am 100% a fan of stock wheelbase. I won't make him do anything he doesn't want to. And while the 14 is still a "beast" in terms of power the power comes on much smoother than the stubbier wheelibased, lighter flywheel 12R. Even Shane can admit that, he's ridden my A model years ago, they require much more technique than an 02+ model to get going from down low.
For the record you said if he hits from 40 mph in 1st he'll flip over. I can flip mine over at 60 mph if I just went WOT. I almost did that with 148 RWHP stock filter/pipes/ride height racing a Turbo Busa earlier 2011 when I first resurrected this street 12. Thats why roll-ons aren't always as "easy" as some of the other guys were trying to make them out to be. I think if we're both slammed in the weeds in 1st gear there will be minimal wheelie issues...and by the time we're both in 2nd I'm sure we'll be pinned to the stops, may the best man win.
A.
you don't want to race from a 2nd gear 60mph cause your 12 will not go, but it will go at 3k rpm in 1st gear? lol start at 70 mph in 2nd gear.
wee
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shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
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posted February 07, 2012 06:25 PM
quote:
quote:
shiphteey I think you and shane both want the same thing ... 9/10 race with a slow roll start at 40 MPH in first gear... I have a ZX14R so i know what happens at 40 MPH in first gear at stock wheel base ..No matter how easy you twist the throttle the bike goes 12:00 O"clock ... Race over for the ZX14R ... Your zx12 will just roll way from him while he watchs you drive away .. If shane goes to lets say 62 inch wheel base it will still do the same thing or it will blow the tire off .. If he goes 64 inches he will do nothing but spin for 9/10s of a mile ..This bike is very very hard to ride fast .. Look how many runs Ricky had to do to get a handle on the power and put down a good run at stock wheel base ..And he is a Pro .. I know you have not rode the new zx14 yet but it's as hard to ride as Roys 1530 bike and you have rode that bike pleanty ..So the way i see it you can give him all the wheel base he wants because it not going to help him ( not on the street anyway ).. At a sticky track it will but you guys are talking on the street .. I only see one fair way to pull this off , both bikes in 2 gear at 60 MPH roll, both bikes stock wheel base ... Run the full 9/10s ..
Funny, after all 7 pages of comments were back to talking about racing from a roll because it is too difficult to make things fair any other way. Which was the whole idea of racing from a roll, making it more about the bike and less about the rider.
Bob, when the wheelbase is alters it changes things. Go to the drag strip and see for yourself. I'd rather respond to Shane with something "actual"....like XX mph....not "around 70" or around 55. We're both into the numbers....the details. Neither are gonna get baited and switched....if I tell him 70 then thats what we're doing. I'm not going to say it and then unsay, I'd rather say it and be sure. Hope you understand that. I have a feeling it will be in the 70 mph area like Wee suggested....I just won't be goaded into 100% saying "yes" till I try it and am sure it will be ok. Thats just the way it is.
A.
A.
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Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted February 07, 2012 06:45 PM
quote:
you don't want to race from a 2nd gear 60mph cause your 12 will not go, but it will go at 3k rpm in 1st gear? lol start at 70 mph in 2nd gear.
wee
wee shut-up and let the guy pick his race.. after all you won't race any index races or ET races because it has a buy back ..
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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shawnski
Pro
Posts: 1809
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posted February 07, 2012 07:32 PM
 Edited By: shawnski on 8 Feb 2012 03:33
Come on guys go race and see what happens.. forget about pride... Just have some fun... U guys will never agree on anything anyway. Wee when u come htown I do couple of roll ons with u differen speed ... I don't care what the result is...
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tshultz
Zone Head
Posts: 556
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posted February 07, 2012 07:38 PM
just race at Ohio same weekend race the fuel class put the bst on the 12 lower it a little you know Shane's 14 will be lowered and have bst wheels fastest speed of the weekend wins???
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Kawi9
Parking Attendant
Posts: 17
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posted February 08, 2012 08:30 AM
quote:
Come on guys go race and see what happens.. forget about pride... Just have some fun... U guys will never agree on anything anyway. Wee when u come htown I do couple of roll ons with u differen speed ... I don't care what the result is...
+1
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted February 08, 2012 11:07 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 8 Feb 2012 19:24
I hear you guys....
I guess there is some pride involved. Ali and I have had a rivalry going for years. Friendly for the most part, although things can get twisted on the internet. I think at this point that neither of us wants to take a loss, this race has been so long in the making, so we want to negotiate to our advantages. Ali's bike doesn't have the BST wheels like mine, but I bet it is just as light. The 14R is no feather, lol. Then he is about 90 lbs lighter (suited up) than me....and simply a more experienced racer, as I mentioned before. And that old warhorse of a 12R pulls like a freight train on top. The 14R is awesome...but all that torque is useless in 1st gear, negating my ability to get the jump...at stock wheelbase, anyway. That's why we are laboring over setup details...
I see it as a sign of mutual respect. If the guy at the local bike night wanted to run me, I would be out there in a second, without debating terms! But Ali is a very skilled racer, with plenty of top speed experience. Likewise, I know that Ali would feel the same if the reverse were true....
Maybe he and I will end up on the street, in a more informal situation...just for fun, and not for any internet bragging rights. I'd like to be a part of that...and in fact I hope to see it happen.
Shane
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BobK
Expert Class
2012 ZX14R SE
Posts: 195
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posted February 08, 2012 11:24 AM
Shane have you thought about using traction control setting 1 which would allow a pretty good launch without going skyhigh?
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted February 08, 2012 11:29 AM
quote:
Shane have you thought about using traction control setting 1 which would allow a pretty good launch without going skyhigh?
Bob, I really haven't experimented at lot with the TC, but when I did I found it to make the bike feel real soft as soon as the front tire got a little air. What did you find?
Shane
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BobK
Expert Class
2012 ZX14R SE
Posts: 195
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posted February 08, 2012 11:50 AM
Shane, I don't do much 1st gear stuff but I think it would take a flip over out of the equation and then with your experienced hand I think you would keep the intrusion pretty low. I have been thinking of letting Sal see how it effects acceleration as I think he would like to know as well. I only have this weekend and then I'm out of town for a week but will be back on the 24th. It has been raining down here all week and is expected to continue.
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted February 08, 2012 11:54 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 8 Feb 2012 19:54
quote:
Shane, I don't do much 1st gear stuff but I think it would take a flip over out of the equation and then with your experienced hand I think you would keep the intrusion pretty low. I have been thinking of letting Sal see how it effects acceleration as I think he would like to know as well. I only have this weekend and then I'm out of town for a week but will be back on the 24th. It has been raining down here all week and is expected to continue.
I have a gps that records at 10hz, and of course my data logger. I hope to have time to do some testing...but I can tell you that TC takes a Scimitar and dulls it to a wooden yardstick....imo, anyway.
Shane
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Wheelie
Needs a life
Old Man
Posts: 6902
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posted February 08, 2012 12:39 PM
quote:
Come on guys go race and see what happens.. forget about pride... Just have some fun... U guys will never agree on anything anyway. Wee when u come htown I do couple of roll ons with u differen speed ... I don't care what the result is...
are you challenging me?
wee
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Lucky14
Pro
Posts: 1439
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posted February 08, 2012 01:27 PM
How come there is no sticky thread called "Rollon Racing 101"
Are all the techniques top secret?
Maybe it's all in the negotiating to get the starting and ending speed to your advantage?
Maybe the hidden bottle trick is what everyone uses?
Wheelie, don't fall for it without knowing and understanding the mysteries of this sport.
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You only need two tools: WD-40 and Duct Tape.
If it doesn't move and should, use the WD-40.
If it shouldn't move and does, use the duct tape.
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BobK
Expert Class
2012 ZX14R SE
Posts: 195
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posted February 08, 2012 01:52 PM
quote:
How come there is no sticky thread called "Rollon Racing 101"
Are all the techniques top secret?
Maybe it's all in the negotiating to get the starting and ending speed to your advantage?
Maybe the hidden bottle trick is what everyone uses?
Wheelie, don't fall for it without knowing and understanding the mysteries of this sport.
THAT IS TOO FUNNY!
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Wheelie
Needs a life
Old Man
Posts: 6902
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posted February 08, 2012 02:01 PM
quote:
How come there is no sticky thread called "Rollon Racing 101"
Are all the techniques top secret?
Maybe it's all in the negotiating to get the starting and ending speed to your advantage?
Maybe the hidden bottle trick is what everyone uses?
Wheelie, don't fall for it without knowing and understanding the mysteries of this sport.
Thanks Dad.
wee
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shawnski
Pro
Posts: 1809
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posted February 08, 2012 02:38 PM
quote:
quote:
Come on guys go race and see what happens.. forget about pride... Just have some fun... U guys will never agree on anything anyway. Wee when u come htown I do couple of roll ons with u differen speed ... I don't care what the result is...
are you challenging me?
wee
Yes sir.. your the way it is and mine the way it is... Minus your 51 tooth sprocket
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Lucky14
Pro
Posts: 1439
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posted February 08, 2012 02:40 PM
quote:
Thanks Dad.
wee
NOT FUNNY!
I'll see you at the Rollon Nationals at Crandall when they open.
$15 spectator and $10 more for a Rollon card - not bad.
I hear some BIG NAMES will be there!
We'll rollon at 37.4 mph in 4th gear up to 87.7 mph and I get the hit.
No shifts allowed.
Either get-a-lane or stop with the smack-talking.............
____________
You only need two tools: WD-40 and Duct Tape.
If it doesn't move and should, use the WD-40.
If it shouldn't move and does, use the duct tape.
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shawnski
Pro
Posts: 1809
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posted February 08, 2012 02:40 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Come on guys go race and see what happens.. forget about pride... Just have some fun... U guys will never agree on anything anyway. Wee when u come htown I do couple of roll ons with u differen speed ... I don't care what the result is...
are you challenging me?
wee
Yes sir.. your the way it is and mine the way it is... Minus your 51 tooth sprocket
Oh.. what hell.. leave that rear sprocket in there.. LOL
____________
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Wheelie
Needs a life
Old Man
Posts: 6902
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posted February 08, 2012 02:41 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Come on guys go race and see what happens.. forget about pride... Just have some fun... U guys will never agree on anything anyway. Wee when u come htown I do couple of roll ons with u differen speed ... I don't care what the result is...
are you challenging me?
wee
Yes sir.. your the way it is and mine the way it is... Minus your 51 tooth sprocket
Come to HMP I'll give you the 60ft and the wiggle.
wee
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shawnski
Pro
Posts: 1809
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posted February 08, 2012 02:47 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Come on guys go race and see what happens.. forget about pride... Just have some fun... U guys will never agree on anything anyway. Wee when u come htown I do couple of roll ons with u differen speed ... I don't care what the result is...
are you challenging me?
wee
Yes sir.. your the way it is and mine the way it is... Minus your 51 tooth sprocket
Come to HMP I'll give you the 60ft and the wiggle.
wee
60 ft.. I suck on that.. how about few roll ons .
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shawnski
Pro
Posts: 1809
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posted February 08, 2012 03:07 PM
quote:
How come there is no sticky thread called "Rollon Racing 101"
Are all the techniques top secret?
Maybe it's all in the negotiating to get the starting and ending speed to your advantage?
Maybe the hidden bottle trick is what everyone uses?
Wheelie, don't fall for it without knowing and understanding the mysteries of this sport.
It is not a sport .... It is fun to do ... No secrets.. u should try it sometimes.. unless u too good to try anything other than drag racing...
...and I challenge u on twisti roads too.. oh never mind that is not your class... It is for beginners only..
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bigdtd
Needs a job
Interceptors
Posts: 4209
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posted February 09, 2012 02:48 PM
Edited By: bigdtd on 9 Feb 2012 22:50
I like both bikes rolling at 20 mph reaching a predetermined spot together at once and going to at least 180. We have a spot where the asphalt turns to concrete that works. You have to be careful in 1st not to flip or loft it too bad, plus hitting the shift points before the rev limiter. Its a tried and true Florida sport. Its easier than a syncing a standing start if you dont have a third party to drop the flag and no finish line you know who won. It certainly can be a challenge at stock wheelbase with no traction control.
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2006 Black ZX-14,6 inches over,16/42, flies out,BMC Street Filter,Brock's Street Meg,Brock's Radial Mount Strap,PClll with Race map,Dynojet LCD w/Techmount, ZX-14 fender eliminator,Pilot Power2CTs,Speedohealer,Pazzo Levers,Cox Radiator Guard, Garmin Nuvi 265WT
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