fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21894
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posted December 31, 2011 10:05 AM
opinion?
http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news-bizarre/us-biker-sues-harley-in-abs-light-case/19709.html
quote:
US biker sues Harley in ABS light case
Interesting case could affect future production from all manufacturers
Posted: 16 December 2011
by Visordown News
A Harley-Davidson Road Glide ... with ABS. Possibly.
AN AMERICAN who crashed his Harley-Davidson, causing his wife who was pillion to end up brain damaged, is suing Harley-Davidson as he claims he thought his motorcycle was equipped with ABS.
Jack Wilson, who crashed on Highway 99 in California, told the Highway Patrol that his anti-lock braking system had somehow malfunctioned, however, his bike, a 2008 Harley-Davidson Road Glide was never fitted with ABS.
Wilson claims the icon on the motorcycle's idiot lights suggested that it did have ABS. He also claimed the salesman who sold him the bike gave him an elbow-to-the-ribs-type aside and said 'chicks love ABS'.
The defence are claiming that the manufacturer puts this icon on all bikes to ensure that bikes that do have ABS will definitely have the accompanying light. The defence lawyer went on to say: "There's nothing odd or unique about a non-ABS bike having ABS. If the icon doesn't light up when you start the bike, anybody should know you don't have ABS."
The defence have laid the blame squarely at Wilson's door, saying: "He should have known the bike's features after riding it for 15 months and 12,000 miles."
Wilson's wife Judy has been left with skull, facial, rib and scapular fractures and now has a prosthetic skull and permanent brain softening. Pain and assorted disorders will render her unemployable forever, said her lawyer.
In what has become a highly controversial case, the jury have to decide whether Harley-Davidson's product bears a design defect in the form of the 'ABS' icon. If Harley-Davidson are found to be at fault, they'll liable to pay around $3 million (£1.9m) to Wilson and will no-doubt have to issue a huge recall.
The case continues.
Read more: http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news-bizarre/us-biker-sues-harley-in-abs-light-case/19709.html#ixzz1i8X6w6w3
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Lsantana954
Expert Class
Posts: 356
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posted December 31, 2011 10:14 AM
yea i def see things changing if this guy wins..reminds me of the lady that sued McDonalds over some hot coffee, SMDH!!
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Stu64
Zone Head
Posts: 548
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posted December 31, 2011 10:44 AM
I cant see that winning in court, my car also has an ABS light but does not have abs,its there but does not light up.
If the guy was so worried about safety why was he riding a bike in the first place, especially a poor handling one. His wife was probley wearing one of those half helmets.
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted December 31, 2011 12:26 PM
I lived right on 99 in Calif ... At least 3 bikers got killed there this year .. 99 is one of the USA worst roads ..The worst is Sacramento to Yuba City ..
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FastestBusaAround
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I eat Fish...
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posted December 31, 2011 04:38 PM
 Edited By: FastestBusaAround on 1 Jan 2012 00:39
Well, if they'd had ABS instead of the empty ABS light, they might have only had permanent brain softening... 
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Obba
Expert Class
Posts: 455
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posted December 31, 2011 05:46 PM
Caveat Emptor, if the salesman even 'hinted' at ABS. And that might still be the case even if the salesman told him it had ABS. One would assume the salesman isn't going to admit it anyway.
If Harley have the same model (some), fitted with ABS then i can't see the guy winning.
Caveat Emptor again applies due to the fact that a resonable price difference between the two models would exist and (i would assume), that the riders manual would mention the ABS light and its operation as to being indicitive of 'If it stays on, you may have an ABS failure - contact your dealer as soon as possible...". etc.
As Stu64 says, if other major car/bike manufactuers have ABS lights embedded in the instrument cluster that may function depending on the range of the particular model, then one would assume that their lawyers have covered that issue already.
It's quite common practise to make 'one-size-fits-all' multifunction components/displays nowadays.
I don't see a design defect. Nothing defective about it. The instrument cluster works fine. The ABS light/indicator is designed (on that particular model), not to illuminate.
However, if the ABS light is illuminating on start up (goes through its prelimiary check and then goes off), then one would assume you had ABS.
I pesonally don't see the guy winning, unless the light was lighting up.
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HiMile14
Expert Class
Posts: 424
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posted December 31, 2011 10:13 PM
A Novice Opinion,
I try to use common sense when breaking down these type of cases. Provided everything we have read is true (although I have never seen bias reporting ;&0), I believe that it will be hard to win this case against Harley. Unless Harley misprinted some advertising (or alike) not brought up in the article, it is up to the dealer to provide specifics about the motorcycle they sell.
Even if the salesman said, "Girls love ABS" does not mean the dealer is guilty either unless it is written on the paper work.
As one who has bought both ABS and Non ABS VFR's Honda identifies it's model with an "A" I believe it's official name is VFR800A vs. VFR800 and I'm pretty sure it was all over the paperwork.
Obba made good points, Honda does not have the ABS light on their non ABS models so that should never be a problem. However, I did not know the ABS light would stay on until I think 9 miles an hour, and unless you owned a unit I can understand that being a misunderstanding.
At the end of the day we are subject to a jury of our peers and how it will be presented, and it's anyone's guess how that will turn out.
It's interesting that we don't get a lot of details about the crash and as mentioned earlier or what type of gear the couple was wearing. From me to you we all have a responsibility to weigh the risks. I believe that you should have the right and responsibility to pilot your bike as you see fit, but the key word there is responsibility. If you don't think "it can happen to me" and are prepared for it, well maybe you should look into another hobby.
Just an opinion
Rob
09 VFR 24,697
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LOCK 909
Novice Class
Posts: 90
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posted January 01, 2012 07:58 AM
Sounds like someone need's deep pocket's to pay for their mistake, to stupid to even know about the bike,should not even be on one!!
no hellmats? MOTORCYCLES ARE DANGEROUS, SO BLAME SOME ONE ELSE!!
THE POOR BASTERD THAT SOLD IT TO YOU!!!
Just think of it if they had both been killed who would file the suit ! if no one thought of it!
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
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posted January 01, 2012 01:46 PM
My $0.02... having an ABS light on a non abs model is misleading... but the guy should have known if his bike had ABS or not when he bought it. The "chicks love abs" could have been to convince him to pop for hte abs option but the guy decided not to. I think far more to the point,,, how does not having ABS make the accident Harley's fault? Was he relying on ABS? DId he intentionally go fast into a wet stop and only crashed because ABS didn't kick in and stop him cleanly?
Seems to me the case SHOULD result in Harley eliminating that piece of confusion, but the guy should not get any money IMO. In this case, his crash = his fault.
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SteveWFL
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted January 02, 2012 07:41 PM
Perhaps the Harley guy in front of this Kawasaki Concours had the same ABS problem huh
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INTIMIDA2OR
Needs a life
RED rider!
Posts: 13081
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posted January 02, 2012 09:56 PM
quote:
Perhaps the Harley guy in front of this Kawasaki Concours had the same ABS problem huh
HA HA! 
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*Lee*
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Obba
Expert Class
Posts: 455
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posted January 03, 2012 12:35 AM
quote:
My $0.02... having an ABS light on a non abs model is misleading
Is this a (non lit), light indicator or a light (indicator), that lights up?
It might have an ABS 'light', but does / did it light up on ignition pos?
If (The ABS light), it lit up - (i'm trying to say , is it purposely made to be active?) - and that particular bike didn't have ABS, then he will win.
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BobC
Pro
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posted January 03, 2012 03:22 AM
I think Jack Wilson may have a point worth making about a non-ABS motorcycle having an ABS indicator on its dash. However I don't think he'll win his case. A real shame about his poor wife.
This isn't as bad as Bell Helmets reportedly being sued by a rider who was wearing another brand. Remember that one?
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urftup
Parking Attendant
Posts: 10
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posted January 18, 2012 09:16 AM
ABS is there to HELP you slow or stop you vehicle or motorcycle when you are doing YOUR own due diligence when operating your vehicle/motorcycle. ABS will not guarantee to save your life when you drive/ride without due diligence. It can be dangerous out there. Drive/Ride accordingly.
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thekaz
Needs a job
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posted January 18, 2012 09:43 AM
Ok I skimmed but tell me if I have it wrong ?
some stupidhead pirate with a low IQ crashed a bike and now the bike manufacturer is being sued becuase of the riders stupidity
YA 
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LOCK 909
Novice Class
Posts: 90
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posted January 18, 2012 11:14 AM
You got it!!
maybe money will make him feel better about making a mistake!
and help pay for the expense, bike, wife,medical maintence.
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Vertigo99
Novice Class
Posts: 52
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posted January 18, 2012 02:05 PM
Ugh. ABS is fine for cars, though I'm not ever going to buy a bike with that has it thanks very much. FFS, riding a motorcycle is a specialized skill and one of the first things you're supposed to learn is proper application of front and rear brakes. Can't manage that by yourself and need an electronic nanny? Get off the bike and hop in your car, it'll be much safer for yourself and other road users.
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Obba
Expert Class
Posts: 455
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posted January 19, 2012 01:06 AM
Is there any follow up to this particular case?
Good to see funny photo's and videos etc of bikes in 'crash mode', and the reference to ABS not working - by supposedly informed posters...
But (educating the ignoramous), ABS is not meant to work that way.
I've ran into cars crossing my path at least 3 times. Locked the rear wheel on two of them and - held my breath (as in slow motion), - as i came closer, and closer, to the car.
Broken bones here and there to prove it.
If i had ABS, i would say i would have come off maybe 'easier'.
Never had a ABS anything. But i feel that if my rear (in those cases), had allowed me to stay in a straight line, i would have been ok.
Panic - reflex, cuts in.
The third was a front wheel lock, just as i hit! (Wet road). I doubt ABS would have helped in that case. Too quick. Went somersaulting a few times through the air (according to eye witness's), landed on my head LOL!!!
But who knows when you might have to 'pull on hard' instinct wise, to avoid an accident?
Anyway. In AUS it's all ABS. Is it Eruope and Canada set that way as well?
Not sure if the ABS is swtichable? I'd leave it on.... 
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fasterspider
Needs a job
Red is faster
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posted January 20, 2012 11:18 AM
My VFR has ABS and I like it.
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INTIMIDA2OR
Needs a life
RED rider!
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posted January 20, 2012 12:17 PM
quote:
My VFR has ABS and I like it.
It'll do a stoppie too which is pretty cool.
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fasterspider
Needs a job
Red is faster
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posted January 20, 2012 01:13 PM
Edited By: fasterspider on 20 Jan 2012 21:14
Yeah but, the stoppie is so little that it almost doesn't count.
I hear people complaining about ABS on motorcycles but, mostly from people that have never ridden with it. I only know one person that has ABS on a bike and does not like it, he has a VFR1200F and rides it like it is a CBR1000RR.
A 591lb bike + a 240lb man = sketchy braking with or without ABS.
Anyway, I have used my VFR1200F ABS in emergency braking a couple of times and found it an awesome tool.
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Ray #1
Sold all of my bikes and bought a Toyota rock crawler
Your mama's bedroom smells like ass
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dbeadling
Zone Head
Posts: 699
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posted January 20, 2012 03:47 PM
harleys dont have any brakes...just put your feet out like the flintstones
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