Bently
Needs a life
2012 14r In Blue and no Mods!
Posts: 5428
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posted December 20, 2011 06:16 AM
quote:
So busa 166 with dino oil
zx14r 189 with the additives and 0 weight oil
busa add 8 hp with the oil change =174hp
zx14r add 5 hp with more miles =194 hp
zx14r add 10 hp with a tune and full exhaust remember that zx14ris not going to pick up that many hp with a tune and exhaust due tio its high performance factory settings =204 hp
busa add 16 hp (that is what i got with a tune and a full exhaust) =194hp
zx 14r add 30 lb weight (the bike is 20lb heavier plus the exhaust system weighs 41 lb whereas the busa exhaust is 51lb), so,when done up, 10 more hp than the busa but 30 lb more weight ?does not impress me that much but the time will tell...
I would say your right a gen 1 14 or gen 2 busa will pick up more hp with an exhaust then a gen 2 14 but maybe I'm wrong. Still think in the end the new 14 will be 20 to 25 hp stronger or about 2 to 2.5 tenths
  
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codyc_13
Expert Class
Posts: 342
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posted December 20, 2011 07:24 AM
Interesting about the Throttle bodies, I though I read that it was a 5-7 hp gain over stock.
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06 zx14, 65", lowered, muzzy pipe, pcIII, air shifter, Litz revalve, Adams cut seat, OSR cut pan 87 pump gas.
8.97 at 149mph
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justoyz2
Zone Head
Justoyz Racing
Posts: 858
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posted December 20, 2011 08:59 AM
WOW..it's funny when folks try to defend their early model vehicle.......
As to the CNC supersport head pkg with 47mm TB the gain was 19 hp with e85; e85 is equal to u4.4... so the gain was roughly 15 hp gain.
Shane that was some good posting, thanks..... The 14R has gained like 7 or 8 hp with an exhaust/no pcV.... I am sure it will gain a few more, especially in the mid range....
I think the gain will be based on the exhaust system used. That CT should net around 210 or so tuned with the oil installed.
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2012 zx14R-blue,2012 zx14R-black, 2014 zx14Trbo, 2011 zx10R, 2007 zx10 Turbo.....
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Bently
Needs a life
2012 14r In Blue and no Mods!
Posts: 5428
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posted December 20, 2011 12:00 PM
quote:
Interesting about the Throttle bodies, I though I read that it was a 5-7 hp gain over stock.
So do alot of others who spent 500.00 for them. call around and see for yourself.
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Swiftkart
Expert Class
Posts: 349
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posted December 20, 2011 03:02 PM
quote:
quote:
It's been proven that a completly stock motor will pick up 5-7hp on the old 14
Really By who? the guy that does them and the one that sells them? I've been told By a very good source who I will not name the gain 1 to 2 hp after all day of tuning.
I did back to back testing on my 14 with a CNC SS spec head and it was 6hp difference between the 44's and 47's.
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2006 ZX14, Brock CT-Meg, PC, ignition module, E85, 214 lbs suited, 8.96@152.32 1.46 60'
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Bently
Needs a life
2012 14r In Blue and no Mods!
Posts: 5428
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posted December 20, 2011 03:07 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
It's been proven that a completly stock motor will pick up 5-7hp on the old 14
Really By who? the guy that does them and the one that sells them? I've been told By a very good source who I will not name the gain 1 to 2 hp after all day of tuning.
I did back to back testing on my 14 with a CNC SS spec head and it was 6hp difference between the 44's and 47's.
Guess your tuner is better then Brock then? fuk if I know, but my 500.00 is staying in my pocket.
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Swiftkart
Expert Class
Posts: 349
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posted December 20, 2011 03:19 PM
Don't think the tuner has anything to do with it, it's most likely my combo, I have the factory pro short stacks, the boots were blended to match the intake, ignition module and I run on E85 so who know's that could be what made it work for me, all I know is it was a solid 6hp gain from bottom to top and the torque was up 4 ft lbs as well.
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2006 ZX14, Brock CT-Meg, PC, ignition module, E85, 214 lbs suited, 8.96@152.32 1.46 60'
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted December 20, 2011 03:49 PM
quote:
Don't think the tuner has anything to do with it, it's most likely my combo, I have the factory pro short stacks, the boots were blended to match the intake, ignition module and I run on E85 so who know's that could be what made it work for me, all I know is it was a solid 6hp gain from bottom to top and the torque was up 4 ft lbs as well.
Roy picked up 6 hp just switching from pump gas to E85 ..NO other charges ..
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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Swiftkart
Expert Class
Posts: 349
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posted December 20, 2011 04:00 PM
I've run E85 for 3 years now, ran E85 with the 44's & 47's so that wasn't it and my bike picked up 9hp over pump using E85.
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2006 ZX14, Brock CT-Meg, PC, ignition module, E85, 214 lbs suited, 8.96@152.32 1.46 60'
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted December 20, 2011 04:09 PM
 Edited By: smokinZX14 on 21 Dec 2011 00:10
quote:
I've run E85 for 3 years now, ran E85 with the 44's & 47's so that wasn't it and my bike picked up 9hp over pump using E85.
All i can tell you is tried a set of 47s on my 09 ... Loss 2 mph and a full tenth in the 1/8 mile .. The bike lost all mid range power , it's possible it picked up a little hp on the very top but i could never prove it because i lost so much in the low end .. Like Bently more than one of the top tunners told me that would happen .. You will lose low and mid range and may see 1 or 2 hp up top ..
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted December 20, 2011 04:14 PM
With all the R&D done on this new ZX14R one would think if the bike needed 46, 47 or even 48 TBs they would have used them ..
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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kaw now
Expert Class
Posts: 446
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posted December 20, 2011 04:16 PM
Couple schools of thought here one may be the Bernoulli principle that gas accelerates through narrow point of flow allowing the same amont of cfm flow the old venturi effect I believe. The other, I don't have any bench flow experience but did a little reading and in regards to intake tract flow it seems that matching ports and such if the blend is convergent and not divergent it can help. So sometimes port matching can hurt numbers and HP. Not sure how the 47s fit into the picture but I'm thinking that if the head and tb's got matched by a professional that is the only way for some improvement.
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CajunBoyz
Zone Head
Posts: 702
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posted December 20, 2011 04:21 PM
Edited By: CajunBoyz on 21 Dec 2011 00:24
quote:
With all the R&D done on this new ZX14R one would think if the bike needed 46, 47 or even 48 TBs they would have used them ..
Yes agreed, Maybe its used as a restriction ???
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"Cajun Boyz with Bad Ass Toys"
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted December 20, 2011 04:26 PM
Edited By: smokinZX14 on 21 Dec 2011 00:27
quote:
Couple schools of thought here one may be the Bernoulli principle that gas accelerates through narrow point of flow allowing the same amont of cfm flow the old venturi effect I believe. The other, I don't have any bench flow experience but did a little reading and in regards to intake tract flow it seems that matching ports and such if the blend is convergent and not divergent it can help. So sometimes port matching can hurt numbers and HP. Not sure how the 47s fit into the picture but I'm thinking that if the head and tb's got matched by a professional that is the only way for some improvement.
Roy and i talked about this a while back , the more you bore the TBs the more tapper you lose , that tapper speeds up the flow .. Now if you started with a hole new TB and made it 47 with the same tapper as stock 44s have ( not size but tapper ) i think it would make more power .. That only works if the engine really needs more CFM .... Roy was going to test a set of ZX10R TBs on his bike and see what happens ... It might work better than boring the 44s ..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted December 20, 2011 04:33 PM
Edited By: smokinZX14 on 21 Dec 2011 00:35
quote:
quote:
With all the R&D done on this new ZX14R one would think if the bike needed 46, 47 or even 48 TBs they would have used them ..
Yes agreed, Maybe its used as a restriction ???
Very possible ... Most zx14 owners want a wide range of power , mid low and top .. Intake manifolds and TBs can be made to do all 3 well or made to do one very well and the other two not so well ... If we didn't need anything but 9000 to 11000 rpms we could use 48 TBs but it would drive like ass on the street ... That is not what kawi was looking to do ... Some of you will remeber the old 750 tripple , we could port them things to hell and back and make more and more HP by spinning it higher and higher but we all know what happened to the low and mid range power ... There is allways some kind of trade off ..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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kaw now
Expert Class
Posts: 446
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posted December 20, 2011 04:35 PM
Good idea I was wondering about a set of ZX12 46mm units on the 14.
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted December 20, 2011 04:37 PM
Edited By: smokinZX14 on 21 Dec 2011 00:38
quote:
Good idea I was wondering about a set of ZX12 46mm units on the 14.
zx12 Spacing is wrong .. I believe the zx10s spacing is the same as the zx14 ..So it could be a plug and play ..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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CajunBoyz
Zone Head
Posts: 702
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posted December 20, 2011 06:24 PM
[
I believe the zx10s spacing is the same as the zx14 ..So it could be a plug and play ..
Now that will be interesting??? Guess "Time will Tell" ??
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"Cajun Boyz with Bad Ass Toys"
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LeoVinceZX14
Expert Class
Thankfully...its paid for...
Posts: 386
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posted December 21, 2011 05:59 AM
Maybe this time...less will be more
Shane:
I think time will show the 14R will require less engine tuning/mods to satisfy the performance desires of most owners. KHI has been doing this fast bike thing...a long time. Anyway, have at it with your sure to be worthwhile build thread bro.
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'12 14R SE
PC V
Custom map
BMC filter
Leo Vince 4-2-1 w/ carbon can
Sato frame sliders
Supersprox 42T
Cox radiator guard
DID 530 X-ring chain.
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted December 21, 2011 06:36 AM
Cool bike VERY cool tests! 
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This moderator uses moderation in moderation
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oldkawboy
Needs a job
Posts: 2125
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posted December 21, 2011 07:04 AM
Sorry Shane for the hi-jacking of your thread but I'm gonna add my two cents worth.
Chris Hill is my local dyno guy. Back when ProStar was racing, his bike won a Supersport championship and he's built a bunch of really, really fast bikes but he is best known here for his tuning.
On my 14 I had Coby Adams fully port the head and do a valve job. After a couple months I bought a second set of OEM throttle bodies and shipped them to Jim at Competition CNC.
I took them and the bike to Chris's shop and he made enough pulls with proper tuning to get the most hp from the bike, it had been several weeks since my last dyno session and the weather had changed considerably. We immediately swapped the 47's and with a little more tuning it recorded a solid 7-8hp more peak with 3-5 thru the mid range, this was on pump gas.
According to the chart & my butt the bike never lost any hp or tq down low and the idle & drivability is just like a stocker.
I think in my application it was worth the 500 bucks. I would love to have the opportunity to test them back to back at the mile or 1.5 mile events but due to time constraints I don't see it happening.
Dan
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Swiftkart
Expert Class
Posts: 349
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posted December 21, 2011 07:22 AM
quote:
Sorry Shane for the hi-jacking of your thread but I'm gonna add my two cents worth.
Chris Hill is my local dyno guy. Back when ProStar was racing, his bike won a Supersport championship and he's built a bunch of really, really fast bikes but he is best known here for his tuning.
On my 14 I had Coby Adams fully port the head and do a valve job. After a couple months I bought a second set of OEM throttle bodies and shipped them to Jim at Competition CNC.
I took them and the bike to Chris's shop and he made enough pulls with proper tuning to get the most hp from the bike, it had been several weeks since my last dyno session and the weather had changed considerably. We immediately swapped the 47's and with a little more tuning it recorded a solid 7-8hp more peak with 3-5 thru the mid range, this was on pump gas.
According to the chart & my butt the bike never lost any hp or tq down low and the idle & drivability is just like a stocker.
I think in my application it was worth the 500 bucks. I would love to have the opportunity to test them back to back at the mile or 1.5 mile events but due to time constraints I don't see it happening.
Dan
It sounds like me and you are the only two people the bored 47's worked for, glad to hear we both spent our money well because I got the same results as you.
____________
2006 ZX14, Brock CT-Meg, PC, ignition module, E85, 214 lbs suited, 8.96@152.32 1.46 60'
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted December 21, 2011 10:31 AM
quote:
Sorry Shane for the hi-jacking of your thread but I'm gonna add my two cents worth.
Chris Hill is my local dyno guy. Back when ProStar was racing, his bike won a Supersport championship and he's built a bunch of really, really fast bikes but he is best known here for his tuning.
On my 14 I had Coby Adams fully port the head and do a valve job. After a couple months I bought a second set of OEM throttle bodies and shipped them to Jim at Competition CNC.
I took them and the bike to Chris's shop and he made enough pulls with proper tuning to get the most hp from the bike, it had been several weeks since my last dyno session and the weather had changed considerably. We immediately swapped the 47's and with a little more tuning it recorded a solid 7-8hp more peak with 3-5 thru the mid range, this was on pump gas.
According to the chart & my butt the bike never lost any hp or tq down low and the idle & drivability is just like a stocker.
I think in my application it was worth the 500 bucks. I would love to have the opportunity to test them back to back at the mile or 1.5 mile events but due to time constraints I don't see it happening.
Dan
Dan i believe you .. But the claim was 5 to 7 hp on a stock motor .. You have done head work and raised compression some and you may just need or can use the extra CFM..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted December 21, 2011 10:49 AM
quote:
quote:
Sorry Shane for the hi-jacking of your thread but I'm gonna add my two cents worth.
Chris Hill is my local dyno guy. Back when ProStar was racing, his bike won a Supersport championship and he's built a bunch of really, really fast bikes but he is best known here for his tuning.
On my 14 I had Coby Adams fully port the head and do a valve job. After a couple months I bought a second set of OEM throttle bodies and shipped them to Jim at Competition CNC.
I took them and the bike to Chris's shop and he made enough pulls with proper tuning to get the most hp from the bike, it had been several weeks since my last dyno session and the weather had changed considerably. We immediately swapped the 47's and with a little more tuning it recorded a solid 7-8hp more peak with 3-5 thru the mid range, this was on pump gas.
According to the chart & my butt the bike never lost any hp or tq down low and the idle & drivability is just like a stocker.
I think in my application it was worth the 500 bucks. I would love to have the opportunity to test them back to back at the mile or 1.5 mile events but due to time constraints I don't see it happening.
Dan
It sounds like me and you are the only two people the bored 47's worked for, glad to hear we both spent our money well because I got the same results as you.
If guys want to spend the 500 and try them on a stock motor that is fine with me .. They didn't work for me and two top tunners told me the same thing " 1 to 2 HP up top with tunning" " but we lost HP in the low and mid range " There are a lot of reasons why they might work on one motor and not another ...I do believe there is some HP to be had with bigger TBs if the engine is modded ( stroker, big bore , head work , cams ) .. But on a stock motor on pump gas i feel it's 500 bucks spent in the wrong place.. I would have put that money first to head work and a milling the head with Deg cams .. .. Clearly the new zx14 makes 200+ hp with the same 44s .. I would think if the new zx14R was short on CFM kawi would have put larger TBs on the bike .. Again i'm saying i saw nothing with them and took them off .. That was just me and my bike , yours may differ ..
Sorry Shane this got so off base ... This was about your dyno numbers and should have stayed that way ..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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oldkawboy
Needs a job
Posts: 2125
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posted December 21, 2011 10:55 AM
Yeah I'm not sure on a stock motor ZX14, now the added dispacement of the R may like them.
I always just figured Kawasaki put the 44's on there to help the low to mid range 'cause when the 14's came out the top-end war was over and they wanted the bike to compete better with the Boosa down low better than the 12 did.
I dunno though since mine "carburete's" on the bottom end just fine looks like they coulda went bigger with the new 14 since not only is the displacement greater, it has bigger cams and a larger intake system.
I'm sure their engineers are sharper than me!!!!
Sorry again Shane..........now back to the regular scheduled program.
Dan
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