CraZX14
Expert Class
Posts: 399
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posted August 27, 2011 06:55 AM
Need Advice on "FLY-swatting, etc."
Hey guys,
I've searched all the posts regarding fly removal and have a few questions.
First, it looks like 2 different length screwdrivers will be needed as the inner most TB opening is not as accessible as the outer one....unless there is some way to take more off around the throttle bodies that I'm not seeing...correct?
Second, since it doesn't appear that these "JIS" drivers are readily available, I plan on making a trip to Lowe's in a bit - any advice on specifics for what to buy - ie - brand, sizes, or screwdriver kits that will work? I've got the bike apart now and really don't want to wait for a mail-order set to arrive if I don't have to...
Third, many seem convinced to heat up the bike before attempting to loosen the screws. I tried last night w/ a Philips head that appears to be a little too big (and definitely way too long to reach the inner TB opening) after the bike was cool and it did not budge. Has anyone tried just using a lighter to heat up the tip of the screwdriver? Any other heating tips?
Next to last, I found a pushpin of sorts just sitting there . . . chilling out on the area just below the TB barrel tops - glad that damn thing didn't find its way into the motor! Does anyone have a clue where this came from?
Finally, I've attached a picture and have circled a hose that is almost split in half that is connected to the back of the gas tank. It looks like a return line of some kind. Does anyone know exactly what its function is? And do I need to run out and immediately replace it?
As always, thanks in advance for the help - it is much appreciated!
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2003 L.E. Hayabusa
  
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Audioboyz
Expert Class
Posts: 265
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posted August 27, 2011 10:04 AM
I have a 2 foot long Phillips #2 that is hardened on the tip.It will reach between those throttle bodies.Heat the tip up with a propane torch.
Craig
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2009 Monster ZX-14
Brocks Alienhead,PCV, flys out,LSL Riser kit,-1 front sprocket,43 Vortex rear sprocket,K&N Air Filter, Zero Gravity tall smoked screen,block off plates,175HP 104 torque
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JZX
Zone Head
Posts: 943
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posted August 27, 2011 10:19 AM
one of those is a drain line if you overfill the tank,open your gas cap and look around the edge, you can see where ot goes if it overfills.
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06 ZX14 65"
Best 1/8 mile 5.68@126.4 on a 1.41 60'
Best 1/4 mile 8.87@152.7 on a 1.47 60'
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Rook
Pro
Posts: 1125
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posted August 27, 2011 02:03 PM
 Edited By: Rook on 27 Aug 2011 22:13
I've got a bazillion pics and I JUST LIVE for posts like this!
]First, it looks like 2 different length screwdrivers will be needed as the inner most TB opening is not as accessible as the outer one....unless there is some way to take more off around the throttle bodies that I'm not seeing...correct?
1. I guess I see what you mean. Looks like #s 2 and 3 have the screws a bit out of the way.....but it only looks that way. I got all screws with one screwdriver. Yes, It was a bit more challenging on the inners but a shorter screwdriver is not needed---if you know the secret.
"Second, since it doesn't appear that these "JIS" drivers are readily available, I plan on making a trip to Lowe's in a bit - any advice on specifics for what to buy "
Forget finding a JIS. I live in a major metro and couldn't find one anywhere, not even the radio control shops have them. Not necessary. The one I got seated perfectly and it was fairly ordinary---just DON'T buy a cheapy. DO buy a quality, brand new screwdriver. A longer one will be harder to control if you you ever need to apply much force (but for flies, I don't think you will need to use muscle----if you follow the special trick I will tell you about)
Look for a #2 phillips. 8" shaft will do it. 7" might be just fine. find one with a black grit coated tip. That will bite onto those little Xs so they do not strip.
Has anyone tried just using a lighter to heat up the tip of the screwdriver? Any other heating tips?
There ya go! That's the secret!!! Only a lighter will probably burn sht out of your thumb off before the screwdriver gets remotely hot enough to do anything. You can get a burnzomatic propane torch at Lowe's while you are screwdriver hunting. I used that. heated the lower end of shaft until I could feel the warmth coming up to the top of the shaft. I heated for 4-5 minutes. NOT till it glows but get it real hot--hot enough to vaporize a drop of water. It has to be able to stay hot a long time or this won't work. CAREFUL to not touch the plastic T -boddies ducts as those would be damaged immediately on contact. Just set the tip in the x slot on the screw and let it sit for about 2 minutes or longer. The heat will melt the locktight and the screws will come right out. Press down firmly and twist. If the screw won't come, let it sit with the hot screwdriver in it a while longer. By the time I git the first couple out, I was doing 2 screws on 1 good heating of the driver. It will stay hot a long time if you heat it up really well.
IMO, heating the bike up is next to worthless for flies removal as the bike will be cold by the time you get it torn down enough to get to the flies. ---unless you are some kinda pro wrencher. I never rush this kind of thing. Anyways, I doubt the T boddies get all that hot unless the motor is running 4-5 bars for an hour.
I would recommend the use of a magnet tool to get those screws as soon as they come out. They can fall down the ducts very easy. Would be worth your while to tape all around the ducts and fly plate to close off the edge. You will have no worry then. Drop a screw and you can't start that motor unless you get the screw out. Yes, you have primary flies below but if I were doing this again-----just tape it off. Lowe's has blue painters tape.
]Next to last, I found a pushpin of sorts just sitting there . . . chilling out on the area just below the TB barrel tops
Yeah, really good thing you took that out. That water/foreign object catch catch channel is sure a wonderful design! Worked for ya this time!! God knows how long that thing was in there>
I'm guessing the bike was bought used? Is this a rubber half spool shape?? torn off on one side?? that be a well nut gromet for the screw that holds down the fuel tank cover where that piece comes to a sharp point at the back. TIP: do not tighten those fasteners or the well nut will crack and it is set right in a hole in the airbox. If it breaks it breaks on the the inside. I have mine barely snug---just where I start to feel the slightest resistance. Never had one vibe out yet. Have had a split well nut from tightening those, however.
Or does it look like one of these? If so, we can tell you where it probably came from but I would have no idea how it got in the airbox. Some one may have dropped it when working on the bike and you just found it. There are 3 types of quick rivets on the ZX-14.
The screwdriver I used for flies was ~$8-9. I picked it up at Advance Auto. I forget the brand but you see what it looks like. I think it is their store brand. It works great on any of the other phillips screws on the bike too.
Like these
and these
couple of these
and these too.
while you're at it, get yourself a quality stubby. A short shaft is so much better on the really hard to break screws like the throttle cable ends you see above. Spend a few bucks. I never knew how much better a good screwdriver was until I tried one.
" It looks like a return line of some kind. Does anyone know exactly what its function is? And do I need to run out and immediately replace it?"
Not sure but aren't both those lines cut????
That would not be a fuel return unless you have a Cali model that contains the gas fumes and condenses to send back to tank.
There is a breather hose (which I believe allows for air expansion and displacement of fuel a sit gets used up). Also a drain hose for overflow if tank is over full.
Yeah, I would replace any and all hoses ASAP. Prolly not gonna kill you unless you fill the tank too high and fuel ignites. If the breather---then it's just sucking air from under the seat. WHy not replace??? I would avoid the temptation to pick up any old rubber hose at Lowe's unless it is billed as "FUEL LINE." IMO, you should just order an OEM hose which will have the proper bends and yuo know it is as safe as brand new.
LOL!!! Looks like you do have a Cali! Mine is not Cali and I see there is one line on each side of the back of tank. You have two on your right, back corner. Inboard is the breather, outboard i the return. Previous owner disable fuel vapor recycler?? I know I would. Nothing against being environmental and all but that's about the last thing on my mind when I ride.
Nice color. Midnight Sapphire Blue. Same here. never a faster color painted on a 14 yet!! lol
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CraZX14
Expert Class
Posts: 399
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posted August 27, 2011 03:28 PM
Thanks for all the advice and pics, Rook. I'm actually the original owner but the bike has been apart pretty extensively for painting before and I wasn't the mechanic behind it ....and I don't claim to be a mechanic by any stretch of the imagination, but what I am discovering is that many who actually are "mechanics" should not be! It seems like every time I go exploring, I find something that was half-ass put back together. For instance, when I just pulled the bike apart, I noticed that the tank only had the back two bolts holing it to the frame - the front two were missing....and the local dealership were the last to have the tank off.....ugh....so disappointing!
Anyway, yes, it is a California bike, the paint color you see is actually called Cortez Blue, and maybe I shouldn't have done this (???) but I tried to warm the bike up after I had it apart and the tank was propped up - still had the cover over the TBs on but figured that there was no harm in starting it as I had not undone any gas lines, etc. Oh, and I've attached another pic of exactly what I fished out of the area below the TB barrels....
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2003 L.E. Hayabusa
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Rook
Pro
Posts: 1125
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posted August 27, 2011 04:25 PM
??? No clue.
?
...and i see your bike is an 06 which means flyectomy is definitely a worth while mod.
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CraZX14
Expert Class
Posts: 399
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posted August 27, 2011 04:44 PM
I know the 14 changed slightly in '08, but I'm not sure what the difference in secondary flies are between the model years...??
So now, Rook, for the first time in my life, I own a ( BernzOmatic) torch, and a P.H. #2 screwdriver with an 8 inch handle and a black tip. I also own (NOT for the first time) a brand spankin' new bottle of tequila. I'm going to try all 3 of my new purchases out and hope for the best . . .
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2003 L.E. Hayabusa
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Slowninja
Expert Class
Slow-ride
Posts: 189
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posted August 27, 2011 06:30 PM
the secondaries opened earlier on the 08s, making the flyectomy less essential.
That tequila is the best part off the process.. lol
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06 zx14
SWB
9.24 @ 148
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CraZX14
Expert Class
Posts: 399
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posted August 27, 2011 06:45 PM
Thanks for the 411, Slow Ninja
Your Pal,
The Slower Ninja! :-)
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2003 L.E. Hayabusa
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Rook
Pro
Posts: 1125
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posted August 27, 2011 06:56 PM
Just set the hot screwdriver in the x for a few minutes---give it a LOT of time, the shaft below will make a pretty effective heat sink for such a small hot spot as a screw driver tip. You have to heat it all up to melt your locktight. . Push down firmly and turn carefully to avoid stripping. If she no turn keep the heat on it rather than try to force it. If you are thinking that little screw might strip the x, then don't do it. If it strips you need to get in there and vacuum and drill and it would be a mess. reminds me, remember to tape around the edges if possible.
Don't drop a screw down the stack. I don't think the hammer tap in the screw head is a good idea either as that could bend the shaft which will not be coming out of the bike.
This is just like the old days. We had threads that went on for 6-7 pages all for one guys flies. Hope it goes easy for you CraZX14. Mine came out easy. Was in the middle of winter ~20 F out in the garage. Bike had about 7000 miles I think. Less than a year old though. Your screws have been in there a while----but heat solves all that. Have at 'er.
I think I would save the worm for after the flyectomy 
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CraZX14
Expert Class
Posts: 399
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posted August 27, 2011 07:35 PM
quote:
Just set the hot screwdriver in the x for a few minutes---give it a LOT of time, the shaft below will make a pretty effective heat sink for such a small hot spot as a screw driver tip. You have to heat it all up to melt your locktight. . Push down firmly and turn carefully to avoid stripping. If she no turn keep the heat on it rather than try to force it. If you are thinking that little screw might strip the x, then don't do it. If it strips you need to get in there and vacuum and drill and it would be a mess. reminds me, remember to tape around the edges if possible.
Don't drop a screw down the stack. I don't think the hammer tap in the screw head is a good idea either as that could bend the shaft which will not be coming out of the bike.
This is just like the old days. We had threads that went on for 6-7 pages all for one guys flies. Hope it goes easy for you CraZX14. Mine came out easy. Was in the middle of winter ~20 F out in the garage. Bike had about 7000 miles I think. Less than a year old though. Your screws have been in there a while----but heat solves all that. Have at 'er.
I think I would save the worm for after the flyectomy
Amigo, the worm has already become a big factor - my higher (or 'different' may be a better term for drunk) sense of logic (aka - don't "screw" this up) has luckily taken over. I have researched local '14' experts and will wait until I have backup to perform this surgery. I will, however, give them all the 411 you've provided me with! Thanks again!
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2003 L.E. Hayabusa
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kawboy81
Expert Class
Busa Eater
Posts: 273
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posted August 28, 2011 12:18 AM
Best thing going to heat up the screws................... Wait for it.......... A soldering iron. Let it heat up, touch the screw for about 20-30 secs. Will spin right off. Trust me
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07 LE bolt on bike
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CraZX14
Expert Class
Posts: 399
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posted August 28, 2011 08:16 AM
quote:
Best thing going to heat up the screws................... Wait for it.......... A soldering iron. Let it heat up, touch the screw for about 20-30 secs. Will spin right off. Trust me
Another good idea...thanks Kawboy!
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2003 L.E. Hayabusa
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Slowninja
Expert Class
Slow-ride
Posts: 189
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posted August 28, 2011 09:13 AM
Or use a snap on screwdriver... No heat at all, pulled mine right out.. lol
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06 zx14
SWB
9.24 @ 148
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Rook
Pro
Posts: 1125
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posted August 28, 2011 12:50 PM
Snap On is that Good, hey?
CraZX, you will spend a lot of $$$ on tools if you let this go on too long. I like the soldering gun idea. I guess I went with the bernzomatic because I already had one. Works well to light the grill also. Or kill a bunch of ants in one fell swoop. Can't do that with a soldering gun.
I have researched local '14' experts and will wait until I have backup to perform this surgery. Nothing beays firsthand experience.
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kawboy81
Expert Class
Busa Eater
Posts: 273
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posted August 28, 2011 01:00 PM
quote:
Snap On is that Good, hey?
CraZX, you will spend a lot of $$$ on tools if you let this go on too long. I like the soldering gun idea. I guess I went with the bernzomatic because I already had one. Works well to light the grill also. Or kill a bunch of ants in one fell swoop. Can't do that with a soldering gun.
I have researched local '14' experts and will wait until I have backup to perform this surgery. Nothing beays firsthand experience.
Lmao, i actually got that from this site a couple years ago from one of the guys on here... but yea you cant light a grill with a iron, but u cant drive a nail with a sponge.... lmao two different tools
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07 LE bolt on bike
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CraZX14
Expert Class
Posts: 399
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posted August 28, 2011 01:58 PM
I took the torch back since I already own a soldering gun...lol.
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2003 L.E. Hayabusa
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kawboy81
Expert Class
Busa Eater
Posts: 273
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posted August 28, 2011 05:17 PM
not that it wouldnt work, just easier to concentrate the heat i suppose..... also just be sure to use a BRAND new #2 phillips and use your palm to apply pressure. Itll spin right off
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07 LE bolt on bike
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CraZX14
Expert Class
Posts: 399
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posted August 29, 2011 08:01 PM
Ok, heating up the screw and using a brand spankin' new black grit tipped #2 P.H. Driver has netted me............drum roll........frustration and now a pretty buggered up screw head. So there is a local engine builder around here that is in Boneville this week but when he gets back, I'm planning on utilizing his services. It sucks that now I've put the bike in worse shape, but at least I tried, I suppose. Maybe I should just order the SS head and 47 mm TBs that are being suggested on Kawboy's "Street Machine" post.... Can someone tell me how much that would cost?
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2003 L.E. Hayabusa
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zxrider11
Novice Class
Posts: 81
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posted August 29, 2011 08:40 PM
Edited By: zxrider11 on 30 Aug 2011 04:42
Where are you located at?
After doing this a couple of times already, I can have them out faster than it takes to remove the tank and bodywork.
Get the JIS long shaft screwdriver and heat the tip glowing red with a propane torch. That is the trick - it will even work with damaged screwdriver heads.
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2008 ZX14 Atomic Silver
2012 KTM 690 Enduro R
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CraZX14
Expert Class
Posts: 399
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posted August 29, 2011 09:06 PM
I'm in Sacramento.Thanks for the tip, ZX-Rider. I'm looking forward to turning those things into a set of wind chimes!
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2003 L.E. Hayabusa
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joel787
Zone Head
Posts: 590
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posted August 30, 2011 07:50 AM
Be patient man, when i did mine, it got way out of hand quick, and easy 15min procedure became a $300 operation.
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http://www.proe-pr.com/cnc.html
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CraZX14
Expert Class
Posts: 399
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posted September 22, 2011 10:00 AM
Update - finally got the flys swatted :-) I took it to a local reputable race shop and the owner ended up just using a very long screwdriver - more torque on the head of the screw or something...but he didn't use any heat. He also recommended that I lower the bike's front end correctly by having him rebuild the front forks rather than the easier method of just sliding the bike down over the forks. I gotta say, I was extremely impressed - it rides like it should again rather than having the no compression/damping sensation that comes with the sliding down method. Also went down -1 on the front tooth. Rode it after loading the Brock's no secondaries track map into the PCIII and I must say, it isn't like one of those things where you think to yourself, "hmmm, I think it feels a little faster".....the low/mid range on this thing just feels downright nasty now. Looking forward to getting on the track soon with it!
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2003 L.E. Hayabusa
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Slowninja
Expert Class
Slow-ride
Posts: 189
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posted September 22, 2011 05:23 PM
glad to hear!
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06 zx14
SWB
9.24 @ 148
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