MotoCycho
Expert Class
Posts: 337
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posted February 09, 2011 07:38 PM
 Edited By: MotoCycho on 10 Feb 2011 03:40
replace rod bolts and head bolt washers?
I am fixing to reassemble my 2007 14 motor with all stock internals after a spun rod bearing. I scored some 2008 rods and pistons from a parted bike. Service manual says to replace the rod bolts and the cylinder head bolt washers. I am fine with this.. but is this really necessary? Anyone have a pass or fail story of reusing the old rod bolts? Why the Cylinder head bolt washers and not the cylinder head bolts as well? Can I mix 2007 rods with 2008 rods? Only had one spin after all. Does anyone know the actual different between the 2007 and 2008 rods and pistons?
Note: my 2007 zx-14 is currently running a 2009 engine I scored off eBay.. I just wanted to get the 2007 motor back together and ready just in case. The 2009 motor has developed a curious engine noise at start-up when it is warm. Sounds sorta like the cam chain tensioner rattle but from the top end.. and it goes away after a few seconds, once oil pressure comes up. I promise it's not the cam chain tensioner. It makes that noise too but only cold.. normal. Never makes this new noise cold.
Here is a sample of the start up sound:
http://www.jactup.com/.shag/projects/motorhead/ZX-14/post/start-up_noise.mp3
Advice & comments welcome about the engine noise or the 2007 motor reassembly.
Whoops.. wrong sound file.. fixed now.
  
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted February 09, 2011 07:52 PM
Sounds like cam chain rattle ( normal ) don't replace the rod bolts without resizing the big end of the rod .. I have reused the head bolt washers with no problems ..
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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06redzx14
Pro
Posts: 1022
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posted February 09, 2011 08:12 PM
quote:
I have reused the head bolt washers with no problems ..
x2
check to see if the weight marks match on the rods. it is the letter on them
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06 alien head, no flies, PC+hub, 16/45 44 43, air shifter, dry shot
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted February 09, 2011 08:40 PM
sounds fukk up to me ..
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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starchild
Expert Class
Posts: 366
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posted February 09, 2011 08:45 PM
hey as far as reusing rod bolts i would suggest you do not reuse them, my 06 motor threw a rod through the front of my cases .. and after dropping the oil pan i found a nut from rod # 4 no damage to the thread no scarring nut just walked away. bolts are designed to stretch at torque specs, after their torqued once they never reach that spec and since their stretched they can back off.by the way this was done by a dealership in dartmouth mass.and they did not back their work .
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jay
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MotoCycho
Expert Class
Posts: 337
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posted February 09, 2011 11:23 PM
quote:
... don't replace the rod bolts without resizing the big end of the rod
Hey smokinzx14,
What does that mean? Oh man.. combing the service manual now. I found the 2 procedure options to reinstall the rods to the crank.. but you lost me here.
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SteddyTeddy
Pro
Posts: 1664
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posted February 10, 2011 05:26 AM
He means send them to a place like APE. They will hone both ends to make sure they are perfectly round. Here is a better explanation.
"The large end of the rod has to be round and a specific size in order to hold the rod bearing in place and make sure it is perfectly round. After many hours of running, the rod usually distorts some from the factory dimension. This generally does not cause a problem as the engine ages because the distortion is gradual and allows the rod bearings to wear slightly and not fail. Depending on how bad the distortion is, if a new bearing is installed in the rod, it can be distorted bad enough that it will fail soon after the engine is rebuilt. So ... you resize the rods.
To "resize" the rod, the bolts are removed, then a small amount of metal is ground off the rod and the cap where they mate together. Then the bolts are reinstalled and torqued in place. Because of the metal removal, the big end is now smaller than when you started. Next you resize the large end back to the factory size using a machine called a "rod hone" .
That is a simplified explaination. Hope it helps."
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06redzx14
Pro
Posts: 1022
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posted February 10, 2011 06:43 AM
Edited By: 06redzx14 on 10 Feb 2011 14:43
I did change mine, but I didn't have the rods resized. held the rod in my hand and TAPPED the bolt out with a hammer. just the opposite when I put the new ones in. did not have a stretch gauge so I used the +-120 degrees as stated in manual to torque them down. so far so good 4 track days and about 6#s of nitrous through it.
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06 alien head, no flies, PC+hub, 16/45 44 43, air shifter, dry shot
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted February 10, 2011 09:22 AM
Here is the problem with just putting in new bolts ..The new bolts will cause the caps NOT to line up as they were with the old bolts ... Install new bolts and resize the rod big end OR at least take them to a machine shop and check them .. I'm not saying that you should reuse your old bolts , i'm just saying if you do replace them you need to check them to see if they are still round and in spec .. I have in the past reused rods bolts on Kawi motors and never had a problem BUT i'm not saying you should !!!
I allways resize the rods if i replace the bolts !!!!! Any machine shop will tell you the same thing ..If you feel lucky go ahead and install the new bolts without checking and resizing the rod , You may get lucky or you may not ... That is a chance i'm not willing to take ..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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Big_T112
Pro
Posts: 1061
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posted February 10, 2011 10:56 AM
I reuse them one time. Most any machine shop can check them to see if they are still round. most times they will be if they came off of a good running stock motor.
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jeffd3889
Parking Attendant
Posts: 1
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posted February 28, 2011 12:21 PM
These bolts should NOT be reused ever! They are "stretch to yield" meaning you torque them to the correct ft lb and then tighten an additional number of degrees preferably using a torque angle meter.
Not a good place to pinch pennies by not replacing the rod bolts, and a torque angle meter can be bought on Evil-Bay for less than $10.00
cheap way not to have to worry about a time bomb between your legs!
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Big_T112
Pro
Posts: 1061
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posted February 28, 2011 01:42 PM
When breaking in new rod bolts they tell you to torque the rod bolts to spec 3 to 5 times to cycle the new bolts. The aftermarket falicon rods tells you to do that also on there web site. My GXR1000 with extended ECU will turn 14K rpm and it has reused rod bolts. 50 shot of spray to. hundreds of passes at the track. never a rod failure. But I only reuse them one time.
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