06redzx14
Pro
Posts: 1022
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posted January 18, 2011 01:42 PM
wideband and LCD screen
do you still have to have a remote record switch if you are using the LCD?
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06 alien head, no flies, PC+hub, 16/45 44 43, air shifter, dry shot
  
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01smokes
Needs a job
Posts: 2243
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posted January 18, 2011 05:27 PM
No
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Rook
Pro
Posts: 1125
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posted January 18, 2011 11:15 PM
? I guess not. I have the LCD with Autotune and I don't have any kind of remote switch. Just have to make sure the LCD you get works with your other DJ stuff. I had to wait about a year for a firmware update and now my AT will work with the LCD and PCV.
I just highly recommend anyone who is buying an LCD to speak with DJ first before you buy something that is not compatible with your current setup. Not all suppliers know what will work with what. Ther has gotten to be quite a bit of STUFF made by DJ and the subject has gotten rather complicated.
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Edgecrusher
Expert Class
Posts: 256
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posted January 19, 2011 05:29 AM
I'm still trying to wrap my head around the PCV . I just finished reading DJs write-up for the auto-tune and I can't figure out why anyone would want to go with the PC3 when the V virtually eliminates the need for a Dynojet tuner?
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Rook
Pro
Posts: 1125
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posted January 19, 2011 08:21 AM
^^^I recall reading that the PCV will map separately for each gear, for different rpm and different mph. I swear I read that it even maps for different cylinders. It is so complex that I haven't even begun to scratch the surface. I don't know what it is doing but the initial accept of trims from AutoTune made a nice improvement. I'm totally satisfied.
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Edgecrusher
Expert Class
Posts: 256
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posted January 19, 2011 08:43 AM
So you can install everything, upload a quick map, and the auto-tuner will take it from there, right? You'll always have the best map according to the tuner? doesn't seem right.
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Stu64
Zone Head
Posts: 548
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posted January 20, 2011 04:05 AM
Does the LCD screen display AFR real time off of the autotune?
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Rook
Pro
Posts: 1125
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posted January 20, 2011 08:19 AM
quote:
So you can install everything, upload a quick map, and the auto-tuner will take it from there, right? You'll always have the best map according to the tuner? doesn't seem right.
That is the way it works. The o2 sensor that goes to a welded in bung on your pipe reads the exhaust. That determines how the fuel should be adjusted to attain a pre set "target AFR." You set the AFR yourself. I went with a safe target AFR suggested by the DJ tech I spoke to on the phone(and who also did an interactive LCD session with me on the iNet with LCD unit connected to my computer). The AT will not change your map until you go in and accept the trims it suggests. Also, the At will not suggest any trims that differ from the current map more than a small percentage (think it was 5%-10%--IDK?)-------so--AT will NOT tune for you. If you hook up the lap top every 15 minutes, you will get new trims that reflect the most current operating conditions. My experience was that the original map was so close, the first trims were the big change and the next 2 or 3 I did were not so significant.
Yeah, this might not seem right at all if you make a living as an engine tuner. It worked well for me and it is a fun gadget to play with. I believe talented, experienced tuners often work outside the parameters of a target AFR to get superior results. They may go what seems quite lean in certain areas of the powerband to achieve what they are tuning for. The AT unit cannot do that. You know the old saying "computers can't create." That is the case with AT but it is a worthwhile investment. It costs what one tune would cost but you can use it to make as many maps as you want. After all your playing around with AT, you can still get a professional tune and see how it compares to the AT tune. You could adjust the pro tune with AT for dif weather or altitude, etc. I believe that is how tuners recommend the AT unit be used.
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Rook
Pro
Posts: 1125
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posted January 20, 2011 08:32 AM
 Edited By: Rook on 20 Jan 2011 16:33
quote:
Does the LCD screen display AFR real time off of the autotune?
There are quite a number of gauges and combinations of gauges that can be displayed. AFR can easily be viewed in real time. I am sure you will see what that looks like if you go to DJ's site and look around for pics of the LCD. I recall that one gauge combo shows RPM and AFR as two main circular dial gauges. Sorry. Can't remember all the particulars. There is a lot of cool crap on that thing i have no idea what it is yet. lambda points ???? I don't even know what that is or why I should know about it but you can view it if you want it in the screen.
I think I posted this already but if you order an LCD, make sure you talk to DJ about what PC and any other electronics set up you will be running with the LCD. My basic PCV and AT would not work with the LCD until the recent firmware update which basically turned the AT-100 into a AT-200. As I understand it, the LCD would have worked fine with the WB-2 module which does the same thing as AT. Just make sure you ask DJ. I would even encourage you to probably order from DJ.
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Edgecrusher
Expert Class
Posts: 256
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posted January 20, 2011 11:58 AM
great info, Rook. Sounds like it's right up my alley. I hate being tied to someone else's skills to make my machine work. I rather learn myself. I'm not competing either so nothing to lose. Now to just save that chunk of change. !
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Edgecrusher
Expert Class
Posts: 256
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posted January 20, 2011 12:00 PM
btw you mentioned the gauges on the LCD, is it capable of displaying temperature too?
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gilberjj
Needs a job
Friend of Fast
Posts: 3196
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posted January 20, 2011 01:49 PM
Ok, just spoke with dynojet and here's what I came up with....
Me: Can the autotune be configured to run with a real-time a/f ratio gauge?
Dynojet: No, the autotune can't do that, but you can get the wideband-commander 2 to do that.
Me: Please explain...
Dynojet: Simply buy
$289 White digital gauge wideband-commander 2 157007
$6 Cam termination plug (reverts signal back to power commander ) 76423025
$20 Can cable (communicates to the pcv) 76950143
The can cable allows the wideband-commander 2 to communicate with the power commander, and the Cam termination plug tells the system to stop looking for another source of information.
Me: So it's about $100 extra to get a gauge and it will do all the same stuff???
Dynojet: Correct.
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gilberjj
Needs a job
Friend of Fast
Posts: 3196
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posted January 20, 2011 01:50 PM
quote:
quote:
So you can install everything, upload a quick map, and the auto-tuner will take it from there, right? You'll always have the best map according to the tuner? doesn't seem right.
That is the way it works. The o2 sensor that goes to a welded in bung on your pipe reads the exhaust. That determines how the fuel should be adjusted to attain a pre set "target AFR." You set the AFR yourself. I went with a safe target AFR suggested by the DJ tech I spoke to on the phone(and who also did an interactive LCD session with me on the iNet with LCD unit connected to my computer). The AT will not change your map until you go in and accept the trims it suggests. Also, the At will not suggest any trims that differ from the current map more than a small percentage (think it was 5%-10%--IDK?)-------so--AT will NOT tune for you. If you hook up the lap top every 15 minutes, you will get new trims that reflect the most current operating conditions. My experience was that the original map was so close, the first trims were the big change and the next 2 or 3 I did were not so significant.
Yeah, this might not seem right at all if you make a living as an engine tuner. It worked well for me and it is a fun gadget to play with. I believe talented, experienced tuners often work outside the parameters of a target AFR to get superior results. They may go what seems quite lean in certain areas of the powerband to achieve what they are tuning for. The AT unit cannot do that. You know the old saying "computers can't create." That is the case with AT but it is a worthwhile investment. It costs what one tune would cost but you can use it to make as many maps as you want. After all your playing around with AT, you can still get a professional tune and see how it compares to the AT tune. You could adjust the pro tune with AT for dif weather or altitude, etc. I believe that is how tuners recommend the AT unit be used.
Dynojet said it can trim up to 50% per cell, but they often recommend you set the parameters to 20% or less.
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Rook
Pro
Posts: 1125
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posted January 20, 2011 07:17 PM
Edited By: Rook on 21 Jan 2011 04:25
LOL--maybe I'm missing something here but it seems to me that is what Autotune does--run with a real time AFR gauge. You set the AFR you want and AT will go as far as it can in one step to hit that AFR. If you can hook up a gauge to tell the AFR in real time, you should be able to see how close the map is. hahahhha-- you have the right idea though--talk to DJ and just do what they tell you. lol You will simply avoid a lot of headaches.
important bit of advice: If they ever do an interactive session, verry politely ask the tech to save a copy of your original map for you before he adjusts the map. You never want to loose the original map in case you want to go back to it. The LCD can save all kinds of maps and switch on the fly, BTW.
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Rook
Pro
Posts: 1125
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posted January 20, 2011 08:23 PM
Edited By: Rook on 21 Jan 2011 04:35
This shows how big the unit is.
You can choose what kinds of gauges you want to be analogue and which digital. You can select colors of display and alarm/warning zones on analogue gauges. I don't have a good handle on this thing yet. There is a lot of info coming into the LCD and a lot of choices on how you can set up the display. Really, the LCD is not necessary to do self mapping but it is really cool. It's a great map storage module. A 1gb card will hold a lot of maps--50, 100?? More than most of us will use.
Here is analogue AFR gauge and tach with digital throttle position, speedo, map #, lambda and V-V I don't know WTF that is.
Bar graph AFR, digital speed and throttle position. Analogue tach with digital display at bottom.
All digital.
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Grinner
Novice Class
Posts: 70
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posted January 20, 2011 11:24 PM
You say that this system will not adjust your map unless you accept the changes, so if you ride your bike up the road and im thinking turbo bikes here is there not the danger the you can det the motor to death before you save the changes or will it adjust afr whilst riding then produce a map with those changes and that is the one you can save....................if you see what i mean?
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gilberjj
Needs a job
Friend of Fast
Posts: 3196
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posted January 21, 2011 01:10 AM
quote:
You say that this system will not adjust your map unless you accept the changes, so if you ride your bike up the road and im thinking turbo bikes here is there not the danger the you can det the motor to death before you save the changes or will it adjust afr whilst riding then produce a map with those changes and that is the one you can save....................if you see what i mean?
I believe smokin said in his autotunethread he thought the same thing, Buthelezi found out that you can run the autotune in openloop mode where it changes as necessary on the fly. Then you can choose to accept the changes to your base map. Hopefully he will chime in and validate or correct me.
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Edgecrusher
Expert Class
Posts: 256
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posted January 21, 2011 05:15 AM
damn they are making some cool chit these days!
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Rook
Pro
Posts: 1125
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posted January 21, 2011 08:00 AM
quote:
You say that this system will not adjust your map unless you accept the changes, so if you ride your bike up the road and im thinking turbo bikes here is there not the danger the you can det the motor to death before you save the changes or will it adjust afr whilst riding then produce a map with those changes and that is the one you can save....................if you see what i mean?
What you said there is correct, however if the map loaded in the PC is in the ballpark, that should reduce the chances of engine damage quite a bit. The key is starting with a map that is close to being right, preferably a map that was made for you exact setup. At least you would know the mapping is safe while you use AutoTune to adjust the map. I would think for boost setups, a decent starting point map would be crucial especially for tuning under severe running conditions.
I have heard of a guy who was tuning for a Hindle full system and he started with a map for a different system. It was taking a very long time to get the map perfect. Also, he intimated that it was a risky thing to do on the street. Obviously if you want to get fuel trims at all rpm, you need to do all rpm. We all know that gets illegal pretty quick, even in first gear.....and I don't know if it is possible to tune just using first gear and running up to the rev limiter. That would seem crazy if you were on boost.
I have read that the PCV tunes separately for each gear. When I accepted fuel trims, it was just one table. I do not understand how a different fuel table would be created for each gear with AutuTune. I may call DJ this Summer and ask.
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Rook
Pro
Posts: 1125
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posted January 21, 2011 08:10 AM
Edited By: Rook on 21 Jan 2011 16:11
quote:
damn they are making some cool chit these days!
Yeah, and expensive. It really is not a necessary mod...at least not for basic mods. It's cool to look at but that is about all it's good for. Autotune is going to do it's job fine without it as long as you get a decent map. The LCD is just eye candy for me....OH--it will save a lot of maps, too...That might turn out to be a practical aspect of owning this little gem.
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Edgecrusher
Expert Class
Posts: 256
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posted January 21, 2011 10:23 AM
So, is it basically using the 'crotch' tuner while your riding and then hooking it to the laptop and deciding whether or not it was an improvement and to accept it?
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Rook
Pro
Posts: 1125
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posted January 21, 2011 11:03 AM
Yep. Most of us would not know an improvement by looking at the suggested trims so it we would as you enumerated:
1. enable AutoTune
2. go for a ride
3. hook up laptop and view trims via DJ software which they give you updated for free (one more reason to be nice to your DJ tech).
4. accept trims (save previous map always a good idea)
5. Ride again and see how you like. If you no like, load up old map.
I was very pleased with first adjustment suggested by AT. The next adjustments--IDK if it was an improvement but accepting trims never seemed to hurt performance. I have the base map on CD and I saved my first trims. I would feel comfortable just updating the map as the weather changes throughout the season. I know I can always go back to my base map or the first trims which was the one that was the most significant.
One more detail--if you have a Mac like me, you cannot use DJ software on it. I had to hang on to my old DellPC just to do tuning. I had my bike in front yard between the hedges rolled up to the living room window with USB stretched out under the screen. Guys riding by were honking and waving. I suppose it wouldn't seem so strange to those of us who bring our whole bike in the living room for winter. I plan to get a non-mac PC laptop soon. A simple netbook should do just fine and make the tuning a lot easier.
I have a similar setup for my busa. Bazazz ZFI and ZAFM. Probably works similarly. Have not installed yet.
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Edgecrusher
Expert Class
Posts: 256
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posted January 21, 2011 12:10 PM
Sounds cool. I have an ignition controller for my VW buggy called a Megajolt Jr. which you actually build. It comes with a patch cable to a laptop with which you can adjust timing in real time with a screen like you LCD. I still haven't mastered it but it's fun to fool around with nontheless! They also make a fuel controler you build your self called a Megasquirt that would do all this stuff as well, but then your getting very custom, yet it'd prolly be a lot cheaper in the end.
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Rook
Pro
Posts: 1125
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posted January 21, 2011 09:12 PM
Edited By: Rook on 22 Jan 2011 05:13
This is all neat stuff but we could literally spend all our riding time figuring it out completely.
Just so everyone is aware, the LCD is JUST a display and it holds/switches maps if you put a 1gb or smaller card in it for map storage. You cannot use the LCD to view or accept fuel trims. That is what I initially thought but I soon discovered that a computer with DJet software is the only thing that can be used to change maps.
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