Edgecrusher
Expert Class
Posts: 256
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posted January 13, 2011 03:09 PM
 Edited By: Edgecrusher on 13 Jan 2011 23:17
valve shim discrepencies
hey, doin a valve clearance check for the first time on my 14, however it's not my first time doing valves but I don't do this every day or every year for that matter. Anyways, I read some posts that said you should always mic your shims to see the true size that they are which I agree with 100%. I also read that the Kawi shims aren't always the size they say.
Well I have about 5 tight valves and when I just mic'ed them tonight the readings were a little confusing. Three of the shims had the 55 mark (2.55 mm) on them but when I mic'ed them they were actually 2.59, 2.61,and 2.61. Is this common? Just wondering if maybe my mic is off or if it's gonna be the shims. What this then tells me is that I would need some actual 2.55mm shims to replace these. But I'm worried I'll end up with the same problem with the new shims. Should I just order more than I need and hope for the best. Ideally I would get them from the local dealer and bring my mic along to check them before buying, but I'm guessing the crappy joints out here won't have what I need.
Anyone come along this problem before? and what do you think I should do from here?
thanks in advance
  
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INTIMIDA2OR
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posted January 13, 2011 03:28 PM
The shims need to be measured at room temp for the best reading. So if you handle them, your body temp will change the readings.
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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watthecu
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posted January 13, 2011 04:48 PM
Edited By: watthecu on 14 Jan 2011 00:48
Factory dials those puppies in. You'll just buy round numbered shims. Not real close in increments but more in millimeters like 260-255-245. Not 261, 259. Measure well and compensate for tight down the road. Either run it on the money and replace when needed, or run slight loose with slight peace of mind.
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INTIMIDA2OR
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posted January 13, 2011 05:02 PM
I run slightly loose. That way it takes longer to get tight 
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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Edgecrusher
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posted January 14, 2011 06:00 AM
All the other valves are on the limit for tightness and I was gonna leave them, but maybe I should spend the extra coin and do em all up now while it's apart and loosen it up and not have to worry about it till next service?
Also, anyone have luck using the HONDA CRF450 shims due to their smaller increments? I heard they will work since they're 9.5 mils also.
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Edgecrusher
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posted January 14, 2011 06:02 AM
BTW thanks for taking time to answer my Q, Lee!
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Edgecrusher
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posted January 14, 2011 08:07 AM
remeasured them again in my office and with a different mic and got closer to indicated reading. I was using a calibration rod when measuring because my mic goes from 2-3" and the rod was off by a few thousandths and so is the mic itself. Looks like time for a new one and have this one calibrated.
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Rook
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posted January 14, 2011 08:17 AM
quote:
The shims need to be measured at room temp for the best reading. So if you handle them, your body temp will change the readings.
This is one of the jobs I planned on doing this winter. I gather valve clearance isn't something to check or adjust accurately in 20 F temperatures.
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Edgecrusher
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posted January 14, 2011 08:50 AM
yeah you need a warm garage that's for sure! we just got at least 3 inches and expect more so what better to do than take my cams apart, then put them back together, and take them apart, ad infinetum.
Stopping by a store on the way home to buy a proper sized caliper and quit screwing around. Also need a few more sets of thickness gauges as it seems every place around here sells sets missing the sizes we need. So I'll have to stack 'em.
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1badzx12r
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posted January 14, 2011 09:03 AM
my findings are the shims run larger than numbered . like a 240 is really a 244 or around that ..so in order to get a 240 you would have to use a 235 which would mic out a 238 or so ..
but i alway use the shim chart in the service manual to find my clearance ..
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INTIMIDA2OR
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posted January 14, 2011 09:40 AM
quote:
quote:
The shims need to be measured at room temp for the best reading. So if you handle them, your body temp will change the readings.
This is one of the jobs I planned on doing this winter. I gather valve clearance isn't something to check or adjust accurately in 20 F temperatures.
Yeah that's too cold lol!
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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INTIMIDA2OR
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posted January 14, 2011 09:43 AM
quote:
remeasured them again in my office and with a different mic and got closer to indicated reading. I was using a calibration rod when measuring because my mic goes from 2-3" and the rod was off by a few thousandths and so is the mic itself. Looks like time for a new one and have this one calibrated.
Wow ! That'll a faulty mic will mess up an afternoon !
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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INTIMIDA2OR
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posted January 14, 2011 09:45 AM
quote:
BTW thanks for taking time to answer my Q, Lee!
No problemo !
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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NINJA12
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posted January 14, 2011 01:07 PM
I was thinking the caliber was off . I could see a shim being mislabeled, but not all of them.
But the fact is that the relative change would still get you the right shim.
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Ozonkiller
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posted January 14, 2011 07:28 PM
I'll bet the shims are damn close. Buy a good mic and keep it safe and not bouncing around in your tool box. Also find a known good "standard" and learn the feel to hit that number. It's kind of an art to learn how much is too tight and not tight enough.
As was mentioned before, if you have a tight valve, pull the shim, measure it and put one back in that measures the correct dimension thinner. You really don't care what the number on the shim is. I understand that you need to have an idea when you go to the dealer to pick out a shim, that's why I'd buy the kit. They've become affordable and if you have a couple of buddies that you could share the cost (CO-OP if you will) then it's down right cheap.
Another trick to simplify things is, a change in shim size is around .002". For example the change from a 260 to a 255 shim is real close to .002". In other words .05mm is about .002". If you're really lucky you will find "half sizes" for examble 258 or 262 or 242 etc. which will allow you to really hit the gnat's ass
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INTIMIDA2OR
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posted January 14, 2011 08:16 PM
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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1badzx12r
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posted January 15, 2011 06:41 AM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 15 Jan 2011 14:44
quote:
I'd buy the kit.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VALVE-SHIM-KIT-KAWASAKI-ZX1400-ZX-1400-ZX14-NINJA-06-09-/230566199575?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35aed10117
problem is that you use only a few same size shims . the factory has most all the same size shims installed
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Rook
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posted January 15, 2011 09:24 AM
Edited By: Rook on 15 Jan 2011 17:24
Anyone have a suggestion on a brand/model micrometer to use for shim measurement?
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KZScott
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posted January 15, 2011 09:57 AM
i use one of these from Mcmaster carr
Measuring Range Throat Dp. Accuracy Each
Harsh Environment
0-1" (0-25mm) 0.75" ±0.00016" 2091A5 103.35
http://www.mcmaster.com/#micrometers/=alpvqw
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00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
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CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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Rook
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Posts: 1125
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posted January 15, 2011 05:34 PM
http://www.mcmaster.com/#micrometers/=alpvqw
Thanks. Is the certified calibration worth while?
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1tbone
Parking Attendant
Posts: 19
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posted January 16, 2011 04:05 AM
measure the clearance, what shim you have --what shim you need it's all relative
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