3000psi and falling
Zone Head
Posts: 848
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posted November 26, 2010 10:43 AM
APE Tensioner, I love it!
After almost 20k miles of box of rocks starts, I installed a APE manual cam chain tensioner. It feels and sounds wonderful to start this thing and not have people ask what the hell was that noise from your motor!
Installation was easy, but setting the chain tension was not so clear. The included instructions were not very clear as far as setting the tension and there appears to be a lot of other methods out there to do this. I ended up playing around with it and adjusting it by hand at idle.
All and all im very happy with this mod, Sounds like it should now!
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08 ZX14, 2010 Persimmon Red bodywork.
Flies pulled, 16-42, BMC street, 8" extensions, drag shock, cut pan, Cycle Concepts Drag Pack and springs, muzzy m14 w/ oval can, lowered, Shinco usoft rear, pcv with autotune, leightweight Shori 18ah battery, throttle meister. 500lbs at bandimeres scales with half tank of juice.
  
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LAB3
Needs a job
Posts: 2977
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posted November 26, 2010 11:55 AM
I had Jim at Competition CNC do the mod to a new ZX-12 CCT (spring loaded) works great too. I have a APE on a old FJ1200 works great too but I have been Sport Touring more the last few years and did not want to worry about the manual CCT adjustments.
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3000psi and falling
Zone Head
Posts: 848
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posted November 26, 2010 12:33 PM
Will i hear it start to rattle again when it needs adjustment? Will it ges loose or tight?
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08 ZX14, 2010 Persimmon Red bodywork.
Flies pulled, 16-42, BMC street, 8" extensions, drag shock, cut pan, Cycle Concepts Drag Pack and springs, muzzy m14 w/ oval can, lowered, Shinco usoft rear, pcv with autotune, leightweight Shori 18ah battery, throttle meister. 500lbs at bandimeres scales with half tank of juice.
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Hellmutt
Needs a job
Posts: 2013
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posted November 26, 2010 12:51 PM
Give this a read and see what everyone was saying about it earlier this year.......not sure how to set it, whether it should be done at idle or set it tight then back it off?? - just don't want you to have a catastrophic failure because of over tightening the cam chain at idle then running the bike at WOT only to break it
http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=27&TID=55351
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British flying couch with endtables and an orange thumper
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Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
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posted November 27, 2010 04:57 AM
I don't recommend manual tensioners 98% of them are over tightened.
The modified zx12 tensioner is the safest solution. No risk of over tightening and damaging the chain.
We sell quite a few of them.
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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Hellmutt
Needs a job
Posts: 2013
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posted November 27, 2010 05:20 AM
quote:
I don't recommend manual tensioners 98% of them are over tightened.
The modified zx12 tensioner is the safest solution. No risk of over tightening and damaging the chain.
We sell quite a few of them.
Are the modded ZX12 tensioners hydraulic? I may go that route if it's a fairly simple swap
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British flying couch with endtables and an orange thumper
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LAB3
Needs a job
Posts: 2977
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posted November 27, 2010 05:29 AM
quote:
Will i hear it start to rattle again when it needs adjustment? Will it ges loose or tight?
Yes a manual CCT that is not adjusted will stay locked in that position. As the cam chain wears after awhile the chain will get loose and start to rattle. What Jim is saying most of the time the manual CCT are adjusted TOO tight. It's a "Feel" that takes time to learn. Not sayin you don't know how to do this........he is just sayin ..... what he see's going thru his shop. Adjust too tight......it's quiet but it will do harm to the chain and sprockets. Kind of like your rear drive chain being TOO tight.
Call APE and talk to the Tech Support and ask how to sneak up on the right amount of pressure adjustment. Back the adjuster bolt off a 1/2 turn from where you have it now and see if you hear CCT noise.
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LAB3
Needs a job
Posts: 2977
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posted November 27, 2010 05:32 AM
quote:
quote:
I don't recommend manual tensioners 98% of them are over tightened.
The modified zx12 tensioner is the safest solution. No risk of over tightening and damaging the chain.
We sell quite a few of them.
Are the modded ZX12 tensioners hydraulic? I may go that route if it's a fairly simple swap
No...................... the ZX-12 is spring loaded, material has to be removed so it will go all the way in so it will touch the cam chain. That is the mod. And buy a new "O" ring.
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Hellmutt
Needs a job
Posts: 2013
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posted November 27, 2010 07:24 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
I don't recommend manual tensioners 98% of them are over tightened.
The modified zx12 tensioner is the safest solution. No risk of over tightening and damaging the chain.
We sell quite a few of them.
Are the modded ZX12 tensioners hydraulic? I may go that route if it's a fairly simple swap
No...................... the ZX-12 is spring loaded, material has to be removed so it will go all the way in so it will touch the cam chain. That is the mod. And buy a new "O" ring.
I see, like a "ratchet" style
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British flying couch with endtables and an orange thumper
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3000psi and falling
Zone Head
Posts: 848
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posted November 27, 2010 09:05 AM
quote:
quote:
Will i hear it start to rattle again when it needs adjustment? Will it ges loose or tight?
Yes a manual CCT that is not adjusted will stay locked in that position. As the cam chain wears after awhile the chain will get loose and start to rattle. What Jim is saying most of the time the manual CCT are adjusted TOO tight. It's a "Feel" that takes time to learn. Not sayin you don't know how to do this........he is just sayin ..... what he see's going thru his shop. Adjust too tight......it's quiet but it will do harm to the chain and sprockets. Kind of like your rear drive chain being TOO tight.
Call APE and talk to the Tech Support and ask how to sneak up on the right amount of pressure adjustment. Back the adjuster bolt off a 1/2 turn from where you have it now and see if you hear CCT noise.
This is how I set it, I followed the directions, but felt it was to tight, I started it (bike was still warm) and at idle I backed it off about 3/4 of a turn and I started to hear the same sound it used to make (the start up rattle) I then slowly turned it in about a 1/8 of a turn till the noise stopped. So if I back it off 1/2 a turn it will be very loose and rattleing at idle. I have a good idea of whats going on in there, I had it appart to swap out most of the shims but if this sounds way wrong please let me know.
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08 ZX14, 2010 Persimmon Red bodywork.
Flies pulled, 16-42, BMC street, 8" extensions, drag shock, cut pan, Cycle Concepts Drag Pack and springs, muzzy m14 w/ oval can, lowered, Shinco usoft rear, pcv with autotune, leightweight Shori 18ah battery, throttle meister. 500lbs at bandimeres scales with half tank of juice.
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LAB3
Needs a job
Posts: 2977
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posted November 27, 2010 09:19 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Will i hear it start to rattle again when it needs adjustment? Will it ges loose or tight?
Yes a manual CCT that is not adjusted will stay locked in that position. As the cam chain wears after awhile the chain will get loose and start to rattle. What Jim is saying most of the time the manual CCT are adjusted TOO tight. It's a "Feel" that takes time to learn. Not sayin you don't know how to do this........he is just sayin ..... what he see's going thru his shop. Adjust too tight......it's quiet but it will do harm to the chain and sprockets. Kind of like your rear drive chain being TOO tight.
Call APE and talk to the Tech Support and ask how to sneak up on the right amount of pressure adjustment. Back the adjuster bolt off a 1/2 turn from where you have it now and see if you hear CCT noise.
This is how I set it, I followed the directions, but felt it was to tight, I started it (bike was still warm) and at idle I backed it off about 3/4 of a turn and I started to hear the same sound it used to make (the start up rattle) I then slowly turned it in about a 1/8 of a turn till the noise stopped. So if I back it off 1/2 a turn it will be very loose and rattleing at idle. I have a good idea of whats going on in there, I had it appart to swap out most of the shims but if this sounds way wrong please let me know.
Sounds like you are OK. And know what you are doing. Good Job. This is what I meant about sneaking up on the chain. :-)
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3000psi and falling
Zone Head
Posts: 848
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posted November 27, 2010 09:45 AM
Great thanks!
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08 ZX14, 2010 Persimmon Red bodywork.
Flies pulled, 16-42, BMC street, 8" extensions, drag shock, cut pan, Cycle Concepts Drag Pack and springs, muzzy m14 w/ oval can, lowered, Shinco usoft rear, pcv with autotune, leightweight Shori 18ah battery, throttle meister. 500lbs at bandimeres scales with half tank of juice.
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INTIMIDA2OR
Needs a life
RED rider!
Posts: 13081
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posted November 27, 2010 03:39 PM
Very cool man! I have around 10K miles of flawless running with my modded 14 cct. I'm waiting for the Blue bikes cct to start acting up so I can either replace it with an APE or just mod the stocker too.
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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3000psi and falling
Zone Head
Posts: 848
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posted November 27, 2010 04:08 PM
How often are you checking it?
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08 ZX14, 2010 Persimmon Red bodywork.
Flies pulled, 16-42, BMC street, 8" extensions, drag shock, cut pan, Cycle Concepts Drag Pack and springs, muzzy m14 w/ oval can, lowered, Shinco usoft rear, pcv with autotune, leightweight Shori 18ah battery, throttle meister. 500lbs at bandimeres scales with half tank of juice.
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INTIMIDA2OR
Needs a life
RED rider!
Posts: 13081
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posted November 27, 2010 04:12 PM
quote:
How often are you checking it?
Every time I change my plugs like 7k . Hasn't moved yet!
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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3000psi and falling
Zone Head
Posts: 848
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posted November 27, 2010 04:23 PM
So the only thing that it can do is loosen up right? I dont see how it can get tighter on its own, and once it starts getting to loose ill hear it start to rattle right?
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08 ZX14, 2010 Persimmon Red bodywork.
Flies pulled, 16-42, BMC street, 8" extensions, drag shock, cut pan, Cycle Concepts Drag Pack and springs, muzzy m14 w/ oval can, lowered, Shinco usoft rear, pcv with autotune, leightweight Shori 18ah battery, throttle meister. 500lbs at bandimeres scales with half tank of juice.
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INTIMIDA2OR
Needs a life
RED rider!
Posts: 13081
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posted November 27, 2010 04:29 PM
Well with the modded 14 cct it will make noise when it gets loose . I know cause it's noisy when I 1st adjusted it.
The APE I'm not sure how noisy it will get but I'm sure you'll hear something. The chain won't get tighter untill you adjust it tighter. It will get loose over time.
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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indynic
Expert Class
Lil Show, Lil Go
Posts: 258
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posted November 27, 2010 04:35 PM
It can only loosen after you set it, it will NOT tighten on its own. The biggest thing is to take your time with it. Turn it in 1/8 turn increments until you dont hear the rattle, turn it back just a hair and set it. That's it! I have about 1000 street miles and about a dozen 1/4 mile runs on mine with nitrous and I love it, too!!! My stock CCT would rattle for almost two minutes at start up. It was embarrassing.
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3000psi and falling
Zone Head
Posts: 848
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posted November 27, 2010 04:41 PM
It was embarrassing.
I know what you mean, id always try to be the last guy to start his bike on rides lol.
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08 ZX14, 2010 Persimmon Red bodywork.
Flies pulled, 16-42, BMC street, 8" extensions, drag shock, cut pan, Cycle Concepts Drag Pack and springs, muzzy m14 w/ oval can, lowered, Shinco usoft rear, pcv with autotune, leightweight Shori 18ah battery, throttle meister. 500lbs at bandimeres scales with half tank of juice.
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Nelson Taylor
Zone Head
Posts: 927
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posted November 27, 2010 08:57 PM
Question about the manual CCT... At what point do you go ahead and replace the cam chain? or so you just continue to adjust the CCT as the chain loosens?
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Best #'s
1.54
4.03
6.02 @ 121mph
(Stock Wheelbase) 2006 ZX14
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INTIMIDA2OR
Needs a life
RED rider!
Posts: 13081
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posted November 27, 2010 09:06 PM
quote:
Question about the manual CCT... At what point do you go ahead and replace the cam chain? or so you just continue to adjust the CCT as the chain loosens?
It makes no difference stock or manual CCT.
Replace the chain at the same point as you would with the stock CCT...
When the chain is stretched beyond factory limits.
Measure the chain in a couple places every time you check the valve clearances. Record the readings so you can track the amount of wear.
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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INTIMIDA2OR
Needs a life
RED rider!
Posts: 13081
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posted November 27, 2010 09:07 PM
And yes tighten the manual CCT as the chain wears/loosens.
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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watthecu
Zone Head
PissingContestHere
Posts: 543
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posted November 28, 2010 07:44 AM
Squid Set: Man, I got mine running without a carb-sync so the chain is flapping and whipping, ah, here it sounds good while running.
Factory 15° past TDC compression #1 cylinder: Geeeeeeee HAaaa, I do not check my gears-me-mesh. I just pull my chain off my tire change and now the wife starts to cook she hears me a few miles away-waaa-waaa-waaa--wwaaath's noise behind me?
 Did you key-factor inn the bed-inn motel6 about all that wear the chain to pin comes around about 65 times before they meet and greet the bead in. Do you have new high spots made? Now find the high or low spot of the chain so you are stuck tightening on the high spot and you now have to find that spot.
The book does not mention you key in finding the tight spot moving the crank 65 times like the rear chain in some sort of count the ratios me throwing out a number we are back to zero play all even, no high spots noticed we key in the cam chain to sprockets. Oh, but did the oil assist take up that squid move? It sure did. Oil give where the mechanical will not. So the chain digs into the slipper once it comes around on the high spot, you take up the low spots to remove said slack.
15° ATDC says the cam will not walk backwards you remove said hands off crank bolt for service adjustments. So, if the valve spring will ramp the chain backwards, how much inside did you not see was the cam moved, not the crank. That is more the Sonic move; you know who I mean, DA2OR. So, war with sonic, war with the bike running, I come along you war wit me.
I do not run bike. I do not 15° book. I take said crank in any position and now load it so as not to move the the cam backwards, nor find the engine pulse whipped the chain quieter than you had it but it might be loose none the less. Slow, did I now take one wheel in 6th gear, I need to remove a crank cover for what I can't see anyway is the cam walk? Did I feel the load I move the engine and once I feel tension, I am with right hand at the CCT with a titty pinch is twist her hand tight as if I had a real tit in hand. Not some titty twister you bend to the side to lock it down you hand job you.
Now I let go of wheel. Now I let go of tensioner screwed nipple. I'd be too scared to use a lock nut over the screw flat to tighten down by hand the nylon loading up the screw ~ It is that tight a turn with screw threads embedding
your finger tips sort of too tight there as well. You do not want to dig the slipper into the chain. You want to kiss it like press you lips on it, not find her teeth you kissed her that hard. Get it?
APE = Another PISSER Explanation
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dcjens
Pro
Wet side of Washington
Posts: 1059
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posted November 28, 2010 08:05 AM
quote:
Very cool man! I have around 10K miles of flawless running with my modded 14 cct.
+1 
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Black 06
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