posted September 26, 2010 11:07 AM
197 MPH BMW .. So it's really not show room stock.. The video tells us what they did , what else didn't they tell us ?
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
posted September 26, 2010 11:17 AM
Edited By: smokinZX14 on 26 Sep 2010 19:23
The posts we have seen about this BMW running 196 make it sound as the drove a stone stock bike from Cailf to the salt Flats and ran 196 .. Well as you can see from the Video these guys are salt flat pros ..They have been chasing records for a long time ..
I'm guessing from what they say on the video this is not the first trip to the salt flats with the new 1000 BMW .. He said his top speed was 188 ? Was that the first trip ? So i'm guessing the second trip they ran 196 after more tunning ?
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
posted September 26, 2010 11:29 AM
Edited By: smokinZX14 on 26 Sep 2010 19:30
quote:Yeah, I was saying to a few people...very convenient "story"...
"Some "Average Joe's" just rode up to Bonneville and went 196 mph on a bone-stock BMW".
There allway seems to be more to the story than told .. I felt the story was a bit fishy ... Some details left out .. So some Average guy ? right .. He is your Average LSR guy .. Show room stock BMW 1000 ? not really , cams degreed , P/C tuned , geared and who knows what else .. ____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
posted September 26, 2010 02:48 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 26 Sep 2010 23:15
So...the bike with degreed cams, mods and a pro rider goes slower than the "average joe" on a stocker....ummm....ok.....
Nobody knows how many mods...the class allows for unlimited within the guidelines of displacement and appearance. So, that is what should be assumed.
But honestly, a bone stock BMW is not going 196 mph in 6000' DA...no matter what.
From a BMW forum:
quote: It seems to be very consistent with our bikes stopping on exactly 186mph.
So...just how stock was it?? Was it just de-restricted? Or what??
quote:Smokin- you have the wrong folks, I made the same mistake ....and posted on labusas and was corrected.
The record was for San Diego BMW your video is for SAN JOSE BMW regardless they did not have much mods really.
That even makes the 196 story more fishy .. If pro LSR guys only runs 188 , then a non pro show up and goes 196 ? Something isn't right ..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
posted September 26, 2010 04:11 PM
Edited By: Ricksgsxr on 27 Sep 2010 00:13
I'm not debating if it was stock or not. I only pointed out you posted an incorrect video and I made the same mistake too.
Superbike magazine next month will have something more to debate here....202 mph with just a Pipe and PC or ????
quote:I'm not debating if it was stock or not. I only pointed out you posted an incorrect video and I made the same mistake too.
Thanks for the info Rick .. If it's the wrong guys it's the wrong guys .. It still begs for an answer to the question , Was it really stock when it ran 196 ?
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
posted September 26, 2010 04:46 PM
Edited By: Ricksgsxr on 27 Sep 2010 00:47
Gotta be gearing change so it would not technically be showroom stock but what else like blue printing, cam timing etc, would be just speculation on my part.
I'm sure with the web though today with instant info, if something was up we will known soon enough.
posted September 27, 2010 07:07 AM
Edited By: osti33 on 27 Sep 2010 15:13
The video shown isn't even the same bike or the the same rider that went 196.
I was there when the BMW went 196. I saw it with my own eyes. It ran the number. Was it stock inside the engine?? I have no idea. Don't even really care. I'm not a BMW guy so it doesn't matter to me. The bike was 100% production class legal and measured for displacement.
The guy riding it was as small as shiphteey. Maybe smaller. Dude was tiny.
As far as getting past the speed limiter goes, on the BMW's I've seen the speedo stops at 186. The bike does not. It will continue to pull to terminal velocity. BMW isn't one of the big 4. I don't think they have the same deal on top speed limiters. Maybe I'm wrong, but they will pull past 186 on the dyno no problem.
quote:The video shown isn't even the same bike or the the same rider that went 196.
I was there when the BMW went 196. I saw it with my own eyes. It ran the number. Was it stock inside the engine?? I have no idea. Don't even really care. I'm not a BMW guy so it doesn't matter to me. The bike was 100% production class legal and measured for displacement.
The guy riding it was as small as shiphteey. Maybe smaller. Dude was tiny.
As far as getting past the speed limiter goes, on the BMW's I've seen the speedo stops at 186. The bike does not. It will continue to pull to terminal velocity. BMW isn't one of the big 4. I don't think they have the same deal on top speed limiters. Maybe I'm wrong, but they will pull past 186 on the dyno no problem.
osti33 if you look back a few posts we got that it was not the same bike and rider..The question now is , is the bike show room stock as stated by them on their webstie?
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
posted September 27, 2010 01:27 PM
Edited By: Ricksgsxr on 27 Sep 2010 21:28
quote:
As far as getting past the speed limiter goes, on the BMW's I've seen the speedo stops at 186. The bike does not. It will continue to pull to terminal velocity. BMW isn't one of the big 4. I don't think they have the same deal on top speed limiters. Maybe I'm wrong, but they will pull past 186 on the dyno no problem.
Osti
Ya know what is funny about this particular comment
I believe it was the Germans who were horrified when a hayabusa went past them on the autobahn and this started the 186 mph gentlemans agreement to limit motorcycles to 186mph?
I could be wrong but thought I read somewhere long ago but now I'm approaching my 50th birthday so could be my mind is slipping
posted September 27, 2010 01:47 PM
Q - if you threw a modified BMW 1000S and a bone stock 1000S out of an airplane at 30,000 feet, which one would hit the ground first???
A - Who cares!!
I don't but all of the BMW posts make for good reading (and viewing). Thanks for the video.
____________
06 ZX14 - Arata exhaust, PC III, McIntosh Ext swingarm, Vortex lowering links, Racetech rear shock, Marc wheels, To be continued...
posted September 27, 2010 02:22 PM
This father and son team are personal friends of mine and are the ones that introduced me to Bonneville. They are very honest and great people. Their shop is located in San Jose (just south of San Francisco) and the other BMW shop, claiming the "fantastic stock speed" is located in San Diego--
____________
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posted September 27, 2010 02:44 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 27 Sep 2010 22:53
Well, let's put it this way....if the bike were making a true 190 hp SAE at sea level, bone stock...and that is not very likely, based on what I have seen. In fact, I know of a bike that didn't even come close to 180 hp in stock form, on my local dyno...
You would lose roughly 34 hp with a 6000' DA, based on the formulas I have seen. (feel free to add to and/or correct this)
How likely is it that you can go 196 mph on 156 hp or less?
And to add to the mystery...how much faster would you expect Brock's lightened and piped/tuned bike to go in 500' DA in the mile?
quote:This father and son team are personal friends of mine and are the ones that introduced me to Bonneville. They are very honest and great people. Their shop is located in San Jose (just south of San Francisco) and the other BMW shop, claiming the "fantastic stock speed" is located in San Diego--
Flyboy glad you popped in .. Can you fill us in on what this 196 BMW would see when in tech ? Do they just check engine size ( bore and stroke ) or do they check everything like cams , pistons , crank ,compression , Head CCs , head for porting to insure the bike is indeed stock ..I know you have been though this and can mostlikely fill us in . This 196 is a production record right ? You hold a production record or still do right ?
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
posted September 27, 2010 04:13 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 28 Sep 2010 00:16
Lee, they are just checking displacement. Internal mods otherwise are unlimited, based on what I have been told.
quote:Lee, they are just checking displacement. Internal mods otherwise are unlimited, based on what I have been told.
If that is true there is the problem .. Ok cheat all you want but keep stock bore and stroke .. How in the hell can they call that a production record ? We all know how fast and how much power can be made with a SS package in a zx14 , so that would be legal and called stock.. Shhhhhit ... I guess the only way to find out how fast a stock BMW really is is to buy one brand new and run it myself ..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
posted September 27, 2010 04:21 PM
Edited By: osti33 on 28 Sep 2010 00:22
quote:Lee, they are just checking displacement. Internal mods otherwise are unlimited, based on what I have been told.
Shane, you are 100% correct.
You can do head, cams, more compression. Whatever you want as long as it is 1000cc's or less.
For production class the bike has to look 100% stock.
By this I mean the rear fender, reflectors, turn signals, everything has to be there. You have to run the stock header(can be gutted out if you want). No lowering of the bike in any way. Like I said it has to "look" 100% like it rolled off the showroom floor.
Smokin, don't confuse a production class bike with a stock bike. Most production class bikes are a long way from stock. As for the BMW, like I said, I have no idea if it was stock or not. Probably the only people that know that are the owner and the guy that raced it.
posted September 27, 2010 04:24 PM
That is jus tthe way production class works. There is really no way to verify it was internally stock, since the rules don't mandate that. For example, I can run a 1347 ZX-12R in production class...as long as it appears externally stock. The classes are 1000, 1350, 1650, etc..
A ZX-14 can be run in production 1650, even with a 1570+ motor.
I believe it was the Germans who were horrified when a hayabusa went past them on the autobahn and this started the 186 mph gentlemans agreement to limit motorcycles to 186mph?
quote:Lee, they are just checking displacement. Internal mods otherwise are unlimited, based on what I have been told.
Shane, you are 100% correct.
You can do head, cams, more compression. Whatever you want as long as it is 1000cc's or less.
For production class the bike has to look 100% stock.
By this I mean the rear fender, reflectors, turn signals, everything has to be there. You have to run the stock header(can be gutted out if you want). No lowering of the bike in any way. Like I said it has to "look" 100% like it rolled off the showroom floor.
Smokin, don't confuse a production class bike with a stock bike. Most production class bikes are a long way from stock. As for the BMW, like I said, I have no idea if it was stock or not. Probably the only people that know that are the owner and the guy that raced it.
osti33 i find that very sad ... This production class is really more like NHRA super stock class .. To me production means just that , the way the factory produced it ... Well that is what i get for thinking ... ____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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posted September 26, 2010 11:07 AM
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