tcchin
Zone Head
Posts: 867
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posted September 29, 2010 10:52 PM
quote:
so how much is that demo bike discounted and being sold to the public for
The discount would probably be inversely proportional to the amount of misinformation one has slung around the forums.
  
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted September 30, 2010 01:15 AM
quote:
I called my friends at SDBMW and asked them about the bike. It was the shop demo bike, and the rider picked it up on Wednesday, just a couple days before the event. Stock as a bike can get.
It's hard to argue with nearly 200 hp bone stock on pump gas, as I have the dyno charts from my bike to prove it. That would go a long way toward explaining the results, however.
Now, wasn't that a lot easier than arguing for four pages?
The only one on our local dyno made 169.9 sae. Crazy, huh?
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted September 30, 2010 01:20 AM
 Edited By: Shane661 on 30 Sep 2010 09:48
quote:
quote:
that's all I would need to see to believe 200 rwhp, a dyno chart, what more proof would you need?
wee
Are you questioning my integrity? If you like, you can call Dusty at Dynojet and ask him for the DRF files. Don't know Dusty? Well then, I guess you just don't know. wee.
It's really not personal for most of us, Tim. 
If you feel that nearly 200 hp on pump gas is typical for these machnes, bone stock, you are welcome to your opinion. However, from what I have seen, that doesn't seem to be the case. I would love to be proven wrong, on a local dyno that I can run my own bike on for comparison. 
In fact, today I am going investigate making that very thing happen. I think it would be very interesting to see the results.
Shane
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted September 30, 2010 02:11 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 30 Sep 2010 10:45
Some info on Andy Sills, SD BMW, and a couple of pics of the bike…
http://www.bmwmoa.org/features/speed_trials.htm?pg=1
http://www.50cc-land-speed-racing.com/2008-pic-7.html
http://sdbmwmc.blogspot.com/
quote:
Next up we have a brief overview of Andy Sills' endeavors on our Demo S1000RR. Andy hopped on our S1000RR demonstrator 2 weekends ago and rode to the Bonneville salt flats. After setting up camp he proceeded to break the old 1000cc production bike speed record leaving the new mark at 196.117 miles per hour. This with stock everything! Turn signals, mirrors, license plate holder...BONE STOCK and Andy of course rode the bike there.
Interesting stuff.
Shane
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted September 30, 2010 02:44 AM
STOP THE PRESSES!!!!!!!!!!
That 196mph was obtained by CHEATING.
Looka t the green speed tape Todd and Debbie are applying!
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CraigChrist
Pro
BAWLS
Posts: 1043
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posted September 30, 2010 03:48 AM
I'll be sure to harrass them until they put a jockey on it at barona when I get home.
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60ft-------1.42
1/8th------5.97
mph-------119
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted September 30, 2010 04:02 AM
quote:
quote:
so how much is that demo bike discounted and being sold to the public for
The discount would probably be inversely proportional to the amount of misinformation one has slung around the forums.
i take it the bike not for sale then ..
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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mathews
Expert Class
Posts: 425
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posted September 30, 2010 05:10 AM
Where are the mirrors?I see the holes where they mount?
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted September 30, 2010 06:17 AM
quote:
Some info on Andy Sills, SD BMW, and a couple of pics of the bike…
http://www.bmwmoa.org/features/speed_trials.htm?pg=1
http://www.50cc-land-speed-racing.com/2008-pic-7.html
http://sdbmwmc.blogspot.com/
quote:
Next up we have a brief overview of Andy Sills' endeavors on our Demo S1000RR. Andy hopped on our S1000RR demonstrator 2 weekends ago and rode to the Bonneville salt flats. After setting up camp he proceeded to break the old 1000cc production bike speed record leaving the new mark at 196.117 miles per hour. This with stock everything! Turn signals, mirrors, license plate holder...BONE STOCK and Andy of course rode the bike there.
Interesting stuff.
Shane
Wow The picture of the bike doesn't match this statement .."This with stock everything! Turn signals, mirrors, license plate holder...BONE STOCK"
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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osti33
Needs a job
Posts: 2973
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posted September 30, 2010 06:31 AM
quote:
Where are the mirrors?I see the holes where they mount?
All bikes (including production class) have to remove the mirrors. It is one of the safety rules. They don't want broken glass on the track if you crash.
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted September 30, 2010 06:50 AM
Brocks got 183 SAE out of his BWM 1000 stock, modded Brock get just a tad over 200 hp .. I feel that is pretty damn good if you ask me .. But SDBMW comes along with their DEMO bike and gets close to 200 HP out of a stock bike ...Shane sees a stocker on a local dyno at 169.9 SAE.. SJBMW Got 184 HP after a P/C , tunning and cam timming ..
Since i own a dyno i know dyno reading can be different from dyno to dyno ...But not 30 HP different ? I guess SDBMW uses a magic wand and a little fairy dust on their DEMO bikes ..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted September 30, 2010 07:02 AM
quote:
quote:
Where are the mirrors?I see the holes where they mount?
All bikes (including production class) have to remove the mirrors. It is one of the safety rules. They don't want broken glass on the track if you crash.
We get that , well most of us get that .. We understand it's a safety item .. But this is what SDBMW said and it's far from the truth .."This with stock everything! Turn signals, mirrors, license plate holder...BONE STOCK" I ask what else are they not telling us about this DEMO bike ?
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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tcchin
Zone Head
Posts: 867
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posted September 30, 2010 07:25 AM
quote:
Brocks got 183 SAE out of his BWM 1000 stock, modded Brock get just a tad over 200 hp .. I feel that is pretty damn good if you ask me .. But SDBMW comes along with their DEMO bike and gets close to 200 HP out of a stock bike ...Shane sees a stocker on a local dyno at 169.9 SAE.. SJBMW Got 184 HP after a P/C , tunning and cam timming ..
Since i own a dyno i know dyno reading can be different from dyno to dyno ...But not 30 HP different ? I guess SDBMW uses a magic wand and a little fairy dust on their DEMO bikes ..
Our bone-stock bike produced just under 193 at the wheel on pump gas on Dynojet's dyno. With the addition of a PCV, it produced just over 197. With the Arrow full exhaust and the AMA spec fuel (yuk), the bike made 196. To verify, we ran it on Factory Pro's dyno with that configuration and got just over 163. Using the 121% correlation factor that Marc says to use, this is just over 197 djhp. Needless to say, coming from six years of racing GSX-R1000's, this was quite a surprise.
Various BMW forums are reporting anywhere from the low-180's to the high-190's for stock power output. There is no explanation for the power differences. The guys at SDBMW are good, honest people. You guys should cut them some slack. And I'm not saying that because I have any vested interest in them - we are sponsored by Irv Seaver BMW and we often compete against SDBMW at the races.
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted September 30, 2010 07:33 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 30 Sep 2010 16:53
quote:
To verify, we ran it on Factory Pro's dyno with that configuration and got just over 163. Using the 121% correlation factor that Marc says to use, this is just over 197 djhp. Needless to say, coming from six years of racing GSX-R1000's, this was quite a surprise.
DJHP Correction factors aside...look at it like this...
On Marc's dyno, he got 160-168 hp from tuned ZX-14's with pipe, on pump. So, in that regard, on the Factory Pro it seems that stock motor 14's with similar mods to your BMW will make equal or more hp.
On my local DJ200, my 14 makes 173-176 SAE with that exact setup. I believe that Smokin's DJ200 is in that range on piped 14's, if not a little less. Do you believe that a stock BMW will make 20 more hp than a piped/tuned ZX-14?
It is the comparison to other bikes, on the same dyno, that is important to me. I could find a dyno to show 200 hp on my bike, especially in STD and tuned a little lean. But it would just be a slip of paper and bragging rights, without a good baseline.
Shane
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted September 30, 2010 07:51 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 30 Sep 2010 16:02
Another example of results from Marc's dyno:
Hayabusa, full system, 08-09 comp exh sys and tuned FI with Teka SFI minimum number of bikes tested ~ 166-170 True HP
(True hp x 1.15 for djhp)
For some reason, that entire Factory Pro page lists the correction factor as 1.15. However, if we take the Busa #'s x 1.21 we get:
200.86 - 205.7
As I say, it is the comparisons on the same dyno that are important.
Shane
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SteddyTeddy
Pro
Posts: 1664
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posted September 30, 2010 08:03 AM
14's on our dyno read between 174 to 176 SAE piped and pc'ed. Now if we were to position our dyno if a spot that had a constant breeze of fresh air it would read about 10hp higher.
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted September 30, 2010 08:51 AM
all this debating .
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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Jamesfs912
Novice Class
Posts: 84
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posted September 30, 2010 09:03 AM
This might be a stupid question but how did the factory set limit of 186 mph get removed if it was bone stock(turn signals, lights, etc..)? I thought the BMW was also limited?
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tcchin
Zone Head
Posts: 867
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posted September 30, 2010 09:21 AM
Nope.
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Jamesfs912
Novice Class
Posts: 84
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posted September 30, 2010 09:28 AM
Found this video online and the bike's speedomter never goes past an indicated 186 mph and the bike stops accelerating after reaching an indicated 186 mph. Another thing as soon as he decelerated the speedo immediately goes down, now wouldn't there be a delay if he was traveling higher than 186? He says verified by GPS but I doubt that. You never see the GPS in the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14qO1MYpszk&feature=player_embedded
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted September 30, 2010 09:30 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 30 Sep 2010 17:34
The common information seems to indicate that there is no speed limiter on the bike. So, it should be able to go very, very fast on the dyno.. as fast as the gearing will allow.
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tcchin
Zone Head
Posts: 867
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posted September 30, 2010 09:34 AM
quote:
On Marc's dyno, he got 160-168 hp from tuned ZX-14's with pipe, on pump. So, in that regard, on the Factory Pro it seems that stock motor 14's with similar mods to your BMW will make equal or more hp.
How many ZX-14's were using the AMA Superbike spec fuel (Sunoco 260 GTX)? I'd hazard to guess right around zero. And did you look at the notes Marc wrote about the BMW on that page? That was our bike. Marc has updated his "True HP Scale" page, no doubt due to his ongoing battles with Wikipedia over the definition of horsepower. At the time, he recommended using 121% as the DJ correction factor, and he was right on the money.
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted September 30, 2010 09:36 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 30 Sep 2010 18:02
.
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted September 30, 2010 10:00 AM
Guys,
you have a wealth of solid BMW info here in the person of Tim Chin.
Not only does he have a BMW, he has:
1. had it on Marc Salvisberg's dyno, knows Marc well
2. had it on Dynojet's HQ dyno in Las Vegas, knows them well
3. had it in AMA Pro events against bikes you know like the GSXR 1000
4. wrenched for AMA Team(s) way back when
5. does all the wrenching/motor building for his Team now
What a resource, eh?
Like Doug Meyer & Jim Gilnack, just different (overlapping skills & experience)
Tim is not a bullshitter, he is technically more advanced than almost everyone on this forum
AND he is one hell of a cook (you should try his pozole!!).
Probe Tim rather try to shoot holes in his explanations, and we will all learn something.
The only thing I am somewhat sure that I know more about than Tim is fleshpots of Latin American and SE Asia. Doesn't help me much in discussion of motorcycle issues.
Although I venture to say it would more comfortable having monkey sex on a factory Pro than it would on a DJ250.
(probably should start a different thread on that topic)
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted September 30, 2010 10:01 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 30 Sep 2010 18:08
quote:
quote:
On Marc's dyno, he got 160-168 hp from tuned ZX-14's with pipe, on pump. So, in that regard, on the Factory Pro it seems that stock motor 14's with similar mods to your BMW will make equal or more hp.
How many ZX-14's were using the AMA Superbike spec fuel (Sunoco 260 GTX)? I'd hazard to guess right around zero. And did you look at the notes Marc wrote about the BMW on that page? That was our bike. Marc has updated his "True HP Scale" page, no doubt due to his ongoing battles with Wikipedia over the definition of horsepower. At the time, he recommended using 121% as the DJ correction factor, and he was right on the money.
Umm...by your own account you lost 1 hp by going with the spec fuel. Even adding 1hp, that still puts you in the middle of the ZX-14 results on his dyno. I'm not sure of your point here?
So, which do you believe...my stock motor ZX-14 makes 195+ hp on pump, or your BMW makes low-mid 170's?
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