zx14fan
Zone Head
Posts: 547
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posted August 08, 2010 04:21 PM
week speedcell
I put a new speedcell in my 14 it would start but in slow motion so I put it on the charger for about 45 min on 10 amp.put it back in the bike and it started like normal then I went for a two hour ride in the berkley hills with no starting problems at all and road home.Now today same problem the speedcell is almost to week to start it im wondering if maybe I didnt give it time for a deep charge should I leave it on 2amp over night or is the speedcell possibly bad?Any ideas on this subject would help.
  
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oldkawboy
Needs a job
Posts: 2125
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posted August 08, 2010 05:31 PM
I believe their charging rate is different from an ordinary battery. I'd contact the seller or Speedcell to make sure the charging process is correct.
I was thinking they only lose about 10% capacity per year, even though yours is new there might be a problem.
Good luck,
Dan
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kaw-rick
Pro
Posts: 1167
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posted August 08, 2010 05:47 PM
theres a process you need to do on these batterys. crank 5 secs, wait, then crank it up. they like a lil heat in them.
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zx14fan
Zone Head
Posts: 547
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posted August 08, 2010 06:12 PM
It will start in less the 5 seconds but but very slow.This is not good for the starter motor.
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Shane661
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posted August 08, 2010 06:22 PM
Is this the only battery of this type you have had?
What size did you get? You should no problems, mine has worked flawlessly for over a year, under very demanding conditions.
The only time it cranks slow is about 45 degrees and less temps.
Shane
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INTIMIDA2OR
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posted August 08, 2010 09:39 PM
Interesting 
____________
'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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zx14fan
Zone Head
Posts: 547
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posted August 08, 2010 11:56 PM
Shane the only battery I have had is the stock batt.I think my 14 has 7k and its an 09.the speedcell came from brocks it looks like the one in your post with the white plastic and that dosent say much But I cant say for sure what one they gave me because it came with no paper work at all.I did explain that I wanted to use it for the street.I will call brocks in the morning and see what they think.
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zx14fan
Zone Head
Posts: 547
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posted August 09, 2010 12:14 AM
Ok I found the invoice.It says 240 amp and that it comes fully charged.But it says recommended for other than alternator charging??My guess is that its for a total loss system.
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INTIMIDA2OR
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posted August 09, 2010 02:05 AM
 Edited By: INTIMIDA2OR on 9 Aug 2010 10:06
So they make one for a total loss system ?And you got one by mistake?
Makes sense cause those type of batteries are designed to have no memory and charge up in an hour or something quick like that.
So looks like if that's the case it don't like being juiced while in operation?
____________
'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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Shane661
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posted August 09, 2010 02:06 AM
240cca is what I have.
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LAB3
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Posts: 2977
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posted August 09, 2010 02:20 AM
Trickle charge it over night with a Deltran Smart Charger, Battery Tender 3 or 4 step 1.25 amp for 10 hours. I was reading up
on Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries...... ask Brock if th Speed cell is this design. Check your connection and make sure they are tight and clean.....check your charging system on the 14 with a volt meter, bad fuse etc and not charging the battery.
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dubious
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Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted August 09, 2010 06:02 AM
I don't know why I am doing this but anyway....
stock alternator , or 10-20 amp automatic charger, is just fine.
trickle chargers were designed for lead acid batteries so they would not boil over, but keep the charge topped over months parking as the lead acid batteries freeeze at low temps with a low charge in them, then they are garbage. don't waste your time trickle charging the lithium batteries.
Lithium were designed to handle big charge amps, and any temperatures the environment can produce, will not freeze, and extrememly difficult to overheat.
There are no such thing as total loss specific battery. They will all take a charge while riding, same as on the bench. The lithium iron design doesn't have a memory, and will handle over 1000 full cycles.
I do not know exactly what manufacture your battery is, it would have come in a white box with speedcell stickers on it, and a black wrapped battery typically.
I was having too many problems with people complaining of the 240ca battery and the big bikes, and started selling only 360 ca batteries for over 1000 cc,
No matter how many times I wrote it or said it, people could not understand that these batteries have zero internal resistance, and need to heat up to create resistance and thus amperage.
First thing,
check and clean all connections, and charge it with an automatic automotive battery charger at 10a for 20 minutes.
To warm up the battery, you must load it, without depleting it.
To do so, crank the motor for 5 seconds, then let it rest for 10 seconds, then crank again for 5 seconds, then rest for 10. If you are not satisfied with this try 3 and 5 seconds intervals instead of 5-10,
This really should not be necessary, except at temps below 50f though.
other than that get a 7.5 amp, or 360ca battery.
PS:
They are not rated as 240 cold cranking amps, because they do not like the cold.
they are rated as 240 cranking amps, not cold cranking amps
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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dubious
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posted August 09, 2010 06:05 AM
as for the zx10 wheel it is 3.5 lbs lighter than zx14 front assembled with rotors....from Stans Masszx14 thread. That was 06-07. The 08 might be a few ounces lighter.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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LAB3
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posted August 09, 2010 07:34 AM
I am saving up for a 7.5 amp Lithium Iron Phosphate battery Dubious advised me that
a 7.5 would be best for my use. They cost more but worth it. Your stock cables will screw on with out buying more parts.
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dubious
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Posts: 8442
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posted August 09, 2010 07:39 AM
The 7.5 Amp I sell is cheaper than a speedcell 5Amp anyway.
same or better materials
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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battman
Parking Attendant
Posts: 4
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posted August 09, 2010 07:46 AM
measure the starter current w a clamp ammeter around one of the wires.
A123 8 cell pack can handle 200A , 240 is pushing it...
next, when bike is running, check charging voltage w multimeter.. should be 14+ volts
the A123 packs I build run fine.
no external charging should be needed unless your system has a drain on it
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zx14fan
Zone Head
Posts: 547
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posted August 09, 2010 08:23 AM
Thanks for the info dubious.
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zx14fan
Zone Head
Posts: 547
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posted August 09, 2010 08:33 AM
Ok brocks tech guy told me that I should try the smart charger before I send the speedcell back and that a car charger will not work on this type of battery? From what I understand thats not the case a car charger will work fine?
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dubious
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Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted August 09, 2010 08:51 AM
you are welcome 
My car charger is a smart charger, thats what i meant about automatic charger.
I think almost all chargers are smart chargers these days though, meaning they ramp down the charge as the battery gets full, or builds up resistance (heat).
even the 30 yr old one I inherited from my father was a smart charger
The alternative,
If it will still start the bike, take it for a good ride on the highway keep it over ~3500 rpm for a hour or so or tank of fuel. The alternator will charge it without over charging, or overheating the battery.
Best to listen to the sales people, I would not want you to void your warrantee.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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zx14fan
Zone Head
Posts: 547
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posted August 09, 2010 11:23 AM
Dubious I think I will take your advice and go with the 360 ca battery.Brocks boys said they would upgrade for another 100 or give me another 240 ca battery.
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FlatoutBu
Pro
Posts: 1054
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posted August 09, 2010 11:43 AM
quote:
I don't know why I am doing this but anyway....
stock alternator , or 10-20 amp automatic charger, is just fine.
trickle chargers were designed for lead acid batteries so they would not boil over, but keep the charge topped over months parking as the lead acid batteries freeeze at low temps with a low charge in them, then they are garbage. don't waste your time trickle charging the lithium batteries.
Lithium were designed to handle big charge amps, and any temperatures the environment can produce, will not freeze, and extrememly difficult to overheat.
There are no such thing as total loss specific battery. They will all take a charge while riding, same as on the bench. The lithium iron design doesn't have a memory, and will handle over 1000 full cycles.
I do not know exactly what manufacture your battery is, it would have come in a white box with speedcell stickers on it, and a black wrapped battery typically.
I was having too many problems with people complaining of the 240ca battery and the big bikes, and started selling only 360 ca batteries for over 1000 cc,
No matter how many times I wrote it or said it, people could not understand that these batteries have zero internal resistance, and need to heat up to create resistance and thus amperage.
First thing,
check and clean all connections, and charge it with an automatic automotive battery charger at 10a for 20 minutes.
To warm up the battery, you must load it, without depleting it.
To do so, crank the motor for 5 seconds, then let it rest for 10 seconds, then crank again for 5 seconds, then rest for 10. If you are not satisfied with this try 3 and 5 seconds intervals instead of 5-10,
This really should not be necessary, except at temps below 50f though.
other than that get a 7.5 amp, or 360ca battery.
PS:
They are not rated as 240 cold cranking amps, because they do not like the cold.
they are rated as 240 cranking amps, not cold cranking amps
Cause you love us.....
____________
06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
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LAB3
Needs a job
Posts: 2977
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posted August 09, 2010 03:29 PM
quote:
Dubious I think I will take your advice and go with the 360 ca battery.Brocks boys said they would upgrade for another 100 or give me another 240 ca battery.
Good move... I am going with a 7.5 amp....Did you ask Brock if the battery he sells is a
Lithium Iron Phosphate design? Just wondering as I am reading a battery tutorial about all the designs, wet cell, Gel-cell and AGM.Absorbed Glass Mat
Now the Lithium Iron Phosphate and the different process they use to rate batteries.
7.5 amp for the street is best for a ZX-14 and larger engines.
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zx14fan
Zone Head
Posts: 547
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posted August 09, 2010 10:32 PM
Not sure lab I really didnt read up on it that much.Its just the standard speedcell 240 ca that most guys are using.
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LAB3
Needs a job
Posts: 2977
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posted August 10, 2010 02:52 AM
Edited By: LAB3 on 10 Aug 2010 11:44
FAQ questions On Lithium Iron Phosphate Batteries
The battery should read under 15V and above 13.5V when fully charged when just finished being charged (in most cased it will read 13.6-14.4V). After a few hours it will drop to the 13.3-13.4V. The range is due to how it was charged and how long it has been since it was off the charger. The maximum voltage the battery should be exposed to is 16.5V. On the lower end of the voltage range the battery should be put on a charger if the battery voltage gets below 10V while sitting. The voltage should NEVER be allowed to drop below 7-8V while at rest. Permanent damage may occur.
If you have a 7.5 amp battery use a smart charger that is about 7.5 amp for long term winter charging. Again they are playing it safe for waranty reasons A car Smart Charger 10 to 16.5
amp will work as the smart charger will reduce amps as battery gains strength.
After you have made sure the bikes system is working correctly it will keep a properly charged battery for years. They also said a 5amp is the min for a 1400CC bike. So I am getting a 7.5 for more reserve cranking cold amps. Keeping connections clean and secure is a Must. All this is on a FAQ for a Lithium Iron Phosphate webb site. I am not Spamming this companies name as one of our members is doing a good job trying to sell his batteries on this post.....Not Lyle... A.K.A Dubious. Thank You Lyle for this information on this new design bike battery that is so much lighter than a Gel or AGM battery.
They also stated that a battery Tender Jr is great for winter charging for months of long term charging as it is a Smart Charger just 1.25 amps. again playing it safe for warranty reasons...a Smart auto charger will work as long it is in good condition. If the Smart circut
goes out and 10 or 20 amps is being input for months will ruin a battery they sell.
Louis
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