posted July 17, 2010 12:06 AM
Does a full exhaust really make more power? I always believed full systems made a lot more power then the stock system, but tonight I had an awakening.... I ran 22 passes with the stock header (who needs mufflers) and I trapped just as high or higher then with my old Brocks sidewinder...... since that time I've changed a few things...
+3 rear teeth
changed from brocks track sidewinder map to brocks street map
Actually ran 15 psi in the rear tire tonight with stock exhaust compared to 24 psi when using the sidewinder
Added missing airbox wellnut (this is probably the most critical)
I'll try to dig up 2 identical time slips to compare more closely, but I was expecting to be way down on power tonight.
Also, weather was quite similar for the 2 occasions. 70ish degrees with little to no wind.
posted July 17, 2010 12:36 AM
Not trying to teach anyone about sucking eggs.
Power/speed in any combustible engine is down to 3 things:
Get it in, burn it good, then get it out!
Not sure if this applies on 4 stroke engines though, but on a two stroke, the actual exhaust needs the create a proper wave form - to suck the following exhaust outlet through.
The most 'openess' of the intake and the 'openess' of the exhaust, will result in getting the engine to breathe 'as it possibly can'.
Mufflers/Cats are there for noise/enviro reasons only.
However, the lessness of noise and those 'nasty fumes' lowers power by a perecentage that will always have experts having 'discussions' over as in price per bang
posted July 17, 2010 02:54 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 17 Jul 2010 10:58
Yes, a full system makes more power. If not, good slip-ons would make the same power as a full system.
Look at the size of the primary tubes on a stock header and compare it to a Brock's header....I mean, honestly, there is no comparing the two. Not only do they make more power, but they carry the power further up the rpm band.
The clutch springs can have a positive impact on mph as welll. You have changed too many things to make an accurate comparison. Due to the springs and gear change, you are likely getting the clutch out sooner, which is going to add mph.
Needs a life
2012 14r In Blue and no Mods!
Posts: 5428
posted July 17, 2010 05:11 AM
Well we have an 08 Busa with stock header and it runs just as fast as our full system bikes et and mph! so we are not sold on full systems right now.
quote:Not trying to teach anyone about sucking eggs.
Power/speed in any combustible engine is down to 3 things:
1. Flock = Brothers of The. You might be hearing how one would win with..
2. .. 10 HP over everyone else...
3. ... How else do you suck eggs out the port is no pipe at all!
All that was left was that smell no evil but it smells in the exhaust is close my window? No, I think they were still open and he died of... Is how you get into the hall of flames out the engine is run nut inn honey!
Needs a life
2012 14r In Blue and no Mods!
Posts: 5428
posted July 17, 2010 08:14 AM
quote:This thread is ridiculous.
I have a stock header for sale..I will let it go for 1/2 of the price of a full system.
I would like to see more guys at my track running stock headers on their 14's, Busa's, and Gixxers.
Shane believe what you want we have had 4 different riders on the busa with the stock header and it runs the same mph we all do on our bikes with pipes. the stock header busa has the cans removed as well with no tuning at all. pretty sad really that's the wole reason I bought what ever system I could get cheap this time just for the weight savings. and I'm glad I did as I run the same mph as the 3 brock equipped bikes.
posted July 17, 2010 08:34 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 17 Jul 2010 16:35
quote:
quote:This thread is ridiculous.
I have a stock header for sale..I will let it go for 1/2 of the price of a full system.
I would like to see more guys at my track running stock headers on their 14's, Busa's, and Gixxers.
Shane believe what you want we have had 4 different riders on the busa with the stock header and it runs the same mph we all do on our bikes with pipes. the stock header busa has the cans removed as well with no tuning at all. pretty sad really that's the wole reason I bought what ever system I could get cheap this time just for the weight savings. and I'm glad I did as I run the same mph as the 3 brock equipped bikes.
Bently, it's not really even a question. You can view the power curves of stock headers/slip-ons vs. full headers in many locations. Perhaps you think all of the independent dyno's are wrong?
It is not just the peak power, it is how it holds the power to redline. In the case of the Busa, it does not respond as well to a pipe as the Kawasaki's do. This has been the case even since the days of the ZX-12R.
It's great to see that you can run the same ET and mph with a stock header on a Busa. However, if you were to take that same setup to an LSR track and run oxygenated fuel and an open filter, you would likely see something very different. An LSR track will show you very clearly the hp difference in the last 1000 rpm to redline.
quote:Did you try the map I sent you?? Did you run the 1/8 or 1/4???
No, I just ran the Brocks street map. I did a map compare, and the map you gave me was even richer then the brocks map. I figured I needed a leaner map, and the bike seemed to run well.
posted July 17, 2010 10:05 AM
Apples and oranges. You need to run the stock header at the strip a few times, park the bike, throw on the full pipe, run it a few times, then go back to the stock header to be truely scientific.
Ditch the stock header. Lose a little weight, add a little HP.
A.
____________
Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
quote:A little hp? Yeah like 10+ hp above 10k rpm.
You are comparing to a stock system, and I'm talking about running JUST the header. I doubt the stock header makes the power of any full system, but my mph is higher now. Granted, I'm still learning to ride consistently, but it still felt great.
posted July 17, 2010 10:18 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 17 Jul 2010 18:21
quote:
quote:A little hp? Yeah like 10+ hp above 10k rpm.
You are comparing to a stock system, and I'm talking about running JUST the header. I doubt the stock header makes the power of any full system, but my mph is higher now. Granted, I'm still learning to ride consistently, but it still felt great.
Ok, man. No point in me wasting any more time in this thread trying to explain the power curves...and how they are a product of the header design...
"Stock header is equal"...that's what you want to hear.
posted July 17, 2010 10:30 AM
Regardless, of whether you want to run 1/2 a stock exhaust system vs a full aftermarket system, do the testing back to back for a real comparision.
____________
Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
quote:Stock header, but "awesome" performance:
This guy is hilarious. I really thought he was going to spray an "awesome" load all over the camera. lol
____________
'2013' SE Spark Black & Golden Blazed Green ZX14R. Bog stock after trading my 07 ZX14.
quote:...... since that time I've changed a few things...
+3 rear teeth
changed from brocks track sidewinder map to brocks street map
Actually ran 15 psi in the rear tire tonight with stock exhaust compared to 24 psi when using the sidewinder
Added missing airbox wellnut (this is probably the most critical)
In fairness, to compare the sidewinder with the open stock headers you should change nothing else.
____________
Candy Thunder Blue 2006 ZZR1400
Stock wheelbase
Max: 205.4 mph in 1.25 miles
2012 ZZR1400 in Golden Blazed Green
Brock CT Full System. etc
Max: 203.1 in 1 mile (so far)
posted July 17, 2010 11:57 PM
Shane is right,full system on my almost stock 14 with a 10 hp gain all the way through the rpm range on the dyno.Mid rage is also much better.End of story this is a fact.
quote:Did you try the map I sent you?? Did you run the 1/8 or 1/4???
No, I just ran the Brocks street map. I did a map compare, and the map you gave me was even richer then the brocks map. I figured I needed a leaner map, and the bike seemed to run well.
1/4 mile
Change the oil and filter. 22 passes is a lot. Suprised you did so good with a stock
headers only.
All times are America/Va [ This thread is 2 pages long: 12Next» ]
HOME
NEW TOPIC
posted July 17, 2010 12:06 AM
Edited By: 
