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BIKELAND > FORUMS > ZX-14.com > Thread: front end push! me or the tires? NEW TOPIC NEW POLL POST REPLY
Dark14


Novice Class
Posts: 45
posted July 08, 2010 03:52 PM        Edited By: Dark14 on 9 Jul 2010 02:31
front end push! me or the tires?

My first zx14 i bought used, and if i remember correclty, it had bridgestone bt003's on it. The bike handled great, but i lost my job and need to sell it.

I recently bought another zx14. This time new from a dealer with oem tires.

i was getting leaned over on a nice clean smooth on ramp, and the front end felt like it got loose on me for a split second, and i had to straighten the bike up just a bit and run a couple feet wider than the line i was trying to take. This suprised me because i really didn't feal like i was going to fast for the bike. i was able to recreate the "push" on a wide strait road just by doing a slalom.

I think that it's widely accepted that the stock zx14 tires are a bit to hard and dont offer optimal traction, BUT i think the problem may be with my ridding technique. If i am pushing the front end in the middle of the turn (no decel - no accel) does that mean i am asking to much of the front tire and need to put more weight on my pegs or seat? BTW i weigh 140 lbs.

Any ridding tips would be nice because i really dont have much experience on the twistys.

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zx14r09se


Novice Class
Posts: 92
posted July 08, 2010 04:29 PM        
the 14 is adjust for a 150lbs rider ... check the sag and the bt 16 oem tire are shit

mine with the pilot power 2 ct and the supension done it was a totaly deffirent bike

but dont trust the bt16 tires at all ... olmost got mine on the pavement with those
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1badzx12r


Needs a life
Posts: 8321
posted July 08, 2010 04:35 PM        
TAR SNAKE
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI

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Dark14


Novice Class
Posts: 45
posted July 08, 2010 04:46 PM        
quote:
the 14 is adjust for a 150lbs rider ... check the sag and the bt 16 oem tire are shit

mine with the pilot power 2 ct and the supension done it was a totaly deffirent bike

but dont trust the bt16 tires at all ... olmost got mine on the pavement with those


i am right at 150 in my gear.

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LAB3


Needs a job
Posts: 2977
posted July 08, 2010 05:30 PM        
Replace the stock tires and break them in and try that same turn again. Check the supension sag with someone your weight On the bike. There are several videos on setting up the supension. Do a search
here, this was just discusses last week...again. :-)

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Dark14


Novice Class
Posts: 45
posted July 08, 2010 06:30 PM        
I realize the whole "suspension settings" topic has bean beatten to death on this and every other forum.

Thats why i did not mention the words suspension or settings until now.

Front sag is perfect. According to sport rider dot com and multiple other video's and articles the factory settings really do seem to be almost perfect for a 150lb rider as far as i can tell.

That is why i named the thread "front end push! me or the tires?" Im not trying to waste space, just looking for some ridding tips or experiences with the bt16's



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CrotchRocket


Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
posted July 08, 2010 07:31 PM        
Thats what happens when you push it in the street...could have been many factors!!!
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zx14fan


Zone Head
Posts: 547
posted July 08, 2010 09:19 PM        
It could be just the street you were on.Anything will push under the right conditions.or not enough throttle through the lean will do that in a hurry.
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RACNRAY


Expert Class
FAST OLD GUY
Posts: 178
posted July 09, 2010 06:51 AM        
Just this past last week i had a couple of front end slides on my 14. Not a nice feeling. The first was making a slow 90 degree left hand turn onto a street with alot of lean, i felt the front end slide and the bars got all mushy, it did catch. It was very hot out at about 3 pm so i figured the turn was somewhat greasy.
On my way into work the next day i hit the normal curves that lead to my shop. In a left hander the front end pushed again, i was now not happy at all.

At 3200 miles the front tire, which was deffinately chewed up on the sides from my cornering shinanigans was just not trustworhty anymore...it's gone.

My skoot came with BT014's. I did not expect the front tire to lose it's capability to stick so soon.

RACNRAY
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no chicken strips on this south florida boy's skoots!!

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CrotchRocket


Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
posted July 09, 2010 07:13 AM        
Twisties in the street with OEM tires I guess you guys like to spend $$$ fixing your bikes and sitting home in pain

The moral of the story is ???

Dont fool around in the streets, keep it on the track with the right tools for the job!!!

____________
Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars

*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****

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dubious


Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
posted July 09, 2010 11:44 AM        
I have found the michelin CT2 at 32-35 psi to be much superior.
Could feel the tire scrub and bite into the road.

manual recommended 41 psi? really?
thats gotta be for the 250+ pound guys.
I felt almost ZERO front tire feedback at those 40 psi pressures

I like the 30-32 in rear and 32-35 in front with michelins, traction and feedback improved exponentially.
Tire wear especially in rear was much much better due to less scrub and spin and wider footprint when upright.
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smokehouse4444


Zone Head
XX to ZX
Posts: 648
posted July 09, 2010 02:51 PM        
Are you sure you have 16's? Mine came with 14's, and they were horrible. Never felt comfortable on them in the twisties. Ran the crap out of them on the drag track to get to some new tires as soon as possible... the "cheese" practically had to blow torch them off of my bike. Terrible tires. I doubt you are upsetting the proper front/rear ratio when leaned over THAT much. If you were in the heat, those "tar snakes" that Bad mentioned can be slick as snot, but I'm betting if you put some good tires on there you would be fine. I have Power One's on now and they are unbelievable. Even went 2-up on a road - track with my wife at 6" over and they stuck like glue. She wasn't particularly thrilled with me, however.
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Vertigo99


Novice Class
Posts: 52
posted July 09, 2010 05:20 PM        
+1 on the tar snakes. Had my 2CT's on for 1000+ miles and they shimmy and shake all over those tar streaks, which are plentiful here in MI.
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SteveWFL


Moderator
Posts: 27920
posted July 09, 2010 08:11 PM        Edited By: SteveWFL on 10 Jul 2010 04:13
during the last session on road atlanta international last weekend, something felt weird about my front suspension too....maybe it was because my "street tires and stock street suspension" had all it could take for the day?? couldn't have been anything else





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2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
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Dark14


Novice Class
Posts: 45
posted July 09, 2010 08:21 PM        
quote:
I have found the michelin CT2 at 32-35 psi to be much superior.
Could feel the tire scrub and bite into the road.

manual recommended 41 psi? really?
thats gotta be for the 250+ pound guys.
I felt almost ZERO front tire feedback at those 40 psi pressures

I like the 30-32 in rear and 32-35 in front with michelins, traction and feedback improved exponentially.
Tire wear especially in rear was much much better due to less scrub and spin and wider footprint when upright.


I am def gonna try those pressures out. Thanks alot.

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blackbullet76


Pro
Posts: 1134
posted July 09, 2010 09:15 PM        
I'm no expert by far, but maybe try hanging your body off the bike more and keeping the bike more upright. I think it will keep you from asking as much from the tires, just my opinion.
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dubious


Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
posted July 09, 2010 10:04 PM        
quote:
I'm no expert by far, but maybe try hanging your body off the bike more and keeping the bike more upright. I think it will keep you from asking as much from the tires, just my opinion.


Im no ricky road racer myself, just 20 yrs streetbikes, 35 in the dirt, but Yeah, I hang off the bike, and allow it to stay as upright as possible, this works at high speed sweepers like over 100 mph, but I found the slower 30 mph corners it pushes more.

I like hanging off the bike, pushing down on the inside footpeg with almost all my weight,
having more clearance available and more lean left in it for emergency additional turn in, incase I need to make evasive manouver for debris or whatever on the road.
Basically thats my 20% safety factor left in it for street riding. If you don;t have at least that on the street your looking for trouble.

Just my 2 cents anyway
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destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.

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Hellmutt


Needs a job
Posts: 2013
posted July 10, 2010 07:36 AM        
Hell, I've burnt up my BT-016's in less than a year but alot of highway miles and some pile on the sides from cornering hard..........they didn't perform too bad, and got some new rubber to install and break in yet -- never had experience with Battlaxe tires before these though.......always ran pirelli's or dunlop gp's.........
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LAB3


Needs a job
Posts: 2977
posted July 10, 2010 07:48 AM        
If you like to ride in the Moutains try the Michelin Pilot Power 2CT the 190/55/17 has a better profile for the turns. It made a Big difference on the 14. If you Drag race stay with the stock size 50 series.
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zx14fan


Zone Head
Posts: 547
posted July 10, 2010 08:18 AM        
My 14 came with battle ax tires stock and they worked fine all the way to the pegs draging on the street.
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kaw now


Expert Class
Posts: 446
posted July 10, 2010 09:13 AM        
Front end push? Doesn't seem possible except with greasy pavement in hot weather or sand moisture or whatever. Maybe the pavement in your area is crap. I've used a lot of different tires and have not had trouble with tire slide in the corners. I've ridden with lots of people some faster many not, all on the street by the way, still no troubles like that. I've seen small people on ninja 250's go faster in corners and no sliding so light weight doesn't seem like an issue. I was out yesterday and totally misjudged a decreasing radius corner and used the brakes it still hung in there. The only time it slid in a corner was some gravel and the front end washed a couple inches. It does make for some pucker factor even those couple inches. I agree some tires are better than others but on the street if you expect to live the speeds generated won't be enough to slide out that much.
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Dark14


Novice Class
Posts: 45
posted July 10, 2010 12:29 PM        
thanks for the input everyone. i have not had a chance to ride this weekend yet, but if the roads dry up i am gonna make a few passes down a local road i know pretty well.

first thing im gonna change is lower the tire pressure a little

second thing i think i could be doing wrong is stearing to much with my handlebars and not enough with the rest of my body. I probly look like a robot ridding my bike compared to the pro's on a race course.

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kaw now


Expert Class
Posts: 446
posted July 10, 2010 01:16 PM        
I still have times of stiffening up but you have to fight it. Do the opposite of your instincts which have you stiffen your arms and stare at the danger. Drop your inside shoulder bend your arms and turn your head down the road where you want to go and the bike will follow. No matter how bad it may seem don't look at the danger, it works and you don't have to lean that much off the bike. I've seen many a pic of skid marks of a bike going straight off the road which means locked (rear) brakes.
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SteveWFL


Moderator
Posts: 27920
posted July 10, 2010 02:07 PM        
if you want the pro's suggestions on riding, get "twist of the wrist II" DVD by keith code.

of course we know more on the Internet here... or we think we do
____________
2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike

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blackbullet76


Pro
Posts: 1134
posted July 10, 2010 11:14 PM        
My biggest problem is corner entry. Even on roads I know, I tend to tense up sometimes on tight turns. I've loosen up some the more I ride, but off seasons tend to put me back there once I start back riding during the season.
____________
2007 ZX-14 black
Brocks s-meg exhaust
PCIII w/track map
BMC race filter
Flies removed
16 tooth front sprocket
Speedohealer
APE cam chain tensioner
Vortex rearsets

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