fbmbks
Expert Class
Posts: 226
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posted June 15, 2010 08:07 PM
another cl lock up thread
burnt the clutch out of my bike that I put in in march w prolly round 100 passes on it and according to ppl on psychobike they are pointing the finger at the hd springs, says it works against the lock up but I know a lotta ppl use the hd springs and some even use both the springs and the brocks spacers but anyways I know my clutch shouldnt be gone already... prolly took a beating trying to go fast on a spring that was way too soft (shock) but still, also whitch way does the ruff edge of the steals face on the clutch so I know I didnt put them in wrong? put the little one in first, then all the same ones then the big one went last one over from what the rest are
  
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted June 16, 2010 03:10 AM
The rough edge ( flat side ) faces out when you put the steels in.....Put all new steels in, then ur clutch will be good...
If thats how your riding style is then dont worry getting only a 100 passes from your clutch...If you want more life then you need to make changes to your style & clutch set up...
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LeonidasZX14
Pro
Posts: 1277
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posted June 16, 2010 04:31 AM
You were running aftermarket clutches right? That could be one problem, the other problem is how long do you hang on to the clutch? I could see burning a clutch up in 100 passes if you drag the clutch. I run HD springs with my CL lock up and it works fine.
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09' ZX14
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted June 16, 2010 05:08 AM
quote:
The rough edge ( flat side ) faces out when you put the steels in.....Put all new steels in, then ur clutch will be good...
If thats how your riding style is then dont worry getting only a 100 passes from your clutch...If you want more life then you need to make changes to your style & clutch set up...
I have put the steels in both ways ... It didn't make a dimes worth of difference on how long they lasted ..
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Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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blackbullet76
Pro
Posts: 1134
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posted June 16, 2010 06:10 AM
 Edited By: blackbullet76 on 16 Jun 2010 14:32
My friend had the best luck from stock clutch plates and steels on his drag bike and he lauched at full throttle, but it's an R1, not a 14. He had problems frying clutches, so he went with a little oiling system that squirted oil directly onto the clutch. Also he would ziptie the clutch leaver open between runs. It let the heat dissipate better. Really extended the life of his clutch.
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speedgene
Zone Head
Posts: 996
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posted June 16, 2010 07:06 AM
quote:
The rough edge ( flat side ) faces out when you put the steels in.....Put all new steels in, then ur clutch will be good...
1+ ... Same goes for friction directions and pressure plate directions being in the basket or the last to bolt on. You can stagger a triangle [pattern] with stock and HD springs around the pressure plate.
quote:
If thats how your riding style is then dont worry getting only a 100 passes from your clutch...If you want more life then you need to make changes to your style & clutch set up...
1+ ... Someone said you are hanging the lever out to dry and that might be the short clutch life. Engage it sooner is all.
quote:
I have put the steels in both ways ... It didn't make a dimes worth of difference on how long they lasted...
Place your palm over the top of your hand. Curl your fingers. Did they ALL collapse in one direction? Flip your hand over and now it should be palm to palm and now press your fingers so they collapse in one direction as smooth as glass.... Oh, you mean the memory of the direction of steel makes no difference as in the whole fingers are in all sorts of directions and look at that, "pressure fighting against' and 'pressure working with."
AIN'T MY BIKE! That is why I direct all my effort so I can control the build from start to finish is massage the pack, not toss the shit in and go race? And you wonder why the best can be beaten.
The one direction collapse is everything at the feel up the assfactor. You more send 'Morse Code' on the collapse.
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speedgene
Zone Head
Posts: 996
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posted June 16, 2010 07:14 AM
quote:
Also he would ziptie the clutch leaver open between runs. It let the heat dissipate better. Really extended the life of his clutch.
So they don't warp the head on speedway bikes, they place a boot over the head like the rubber boot over the 14's engine. It may be for sound deadening, but that acts the same, slow heat dissipation, you hold the heat in so it cools slow. Pull the lever, the plates have no place to move the heat off itself. So there is this warp about to set in. I like to see the guy zip-tie the lever getting his time slip, not ride back to the pits, cool the plates off all together taking that heat away, he has no problems.... RIiiiiiiiiGHT! Think about that one.
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fbmbks
Expert Class
Posts: 226
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posted June 16, 2010 08:30 PM
I dont hang the clutch out that long, I ran a factory kg clutch in it... ognna give cycle concepts a call and order a new clutch and try their drag pack, local shop quoted me 230-245 for all factory oem clutch not sure if they make a difference or not, all the fibers in my clutch look pretty good, the insides were a little bad witch indicates not enough oil so I need to start soaking them good before burn out and the steals were black
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blackbullet76
Pro
Posts: 1134
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posted June 16, 2010 09:19 PM
Edited By: blackbullet76 on 17 Jun 2010 05:20
quote:
Pull the lever, the plates have no place to move the heat off itself. So there is this warp about to set in. I like to see the guy zip-tie the lever getting his time slip, not ride back to the pits, cool the plates off all together taking that heat away, he has no problems.... RIiiiiiiiiGHT! Think about that one.
Well that's what he did and it worked. Sorry if you disagree.
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2007 ZX-14 black
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PCIII w/track map
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Flies removed
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speedgene
Zone Head
Posts: 996
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posted June 16, 2010 09:29 PM
Pack & Stack is the same as Wire & Fire. See, first you need the wire harness to spark the plug with the key fob. Pack and stack is to pack ALL the plates one way, then the 'stack height' is the cushion you aim for. The thicker the stack, the longer the clutch lasts. The more wear you can play WIDTH.
Now, say you stand away from a flaming fire. Say you stand in the fire. Here is what is happening with the clutch release. Yes, you sure do hang that long. I don't care what you are running, do you run out of that fire or walk slow, yes or no? So, you are hanging those back clutches up, as if they are standing in the fire, ripping each other to embers.
The farther into the release, you have more plates to pack, and did you compress all that oil out of fiber, get it? As they are farther away from the flaming your are getting, telling me you hang that lever to the point of burning the back or the beginning plates on the collapse of the pack. Are we clear, "The Hand" pulls plate and finds what you should have as a full deck of all charcoal plates or not one plate, you could swap from front to back is your hand give me that crap.
"The Hand" holds an unburned pack with tons of runs on it. GO OEM or again, It ain't my bike! Practice your release, yes or no you come back with another burned plate.
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speedgene
Zone Head
Posts: 996
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posted June 16, 2010 09:49 PM
Edited By: speedgene on 17 Jun 2010 05:55
quote:
Well that's what he did and it worked. Sorry if you disagree.
Oh-geeze, don't worry with me. Just remember, a flat plate is the key ~ No warp pee. No matter how you keep it flat, do your thing. Whine it comes down to theory, only one is right. And if he is right with his theory, how come no one has made or ever came up with a clutch holder out the cover, or a lever holder, after decades of all sorts of guys racing bikes. Not even the car guys take a 2x4 and hold the clutch pedal down. I mean, go way back to the 3-speed and 1950's, pick a car event on dirt or keep picking and did any decade of guys come up with ideas to save a clutch? No magic signature 2x4 clutch holder for some 6-speed Vette. No, signature clutch munch mammoth watch me ride backwards.
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kawasakijockey
Pro
Posts: 1876
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posted June 17, 2010 02:40 AM
quote:
I dont hang the clutch out that long, I ran a factory kg clutch in it... ognna give cycle concepts a call and order a new clutch and try their drag pack, local shop quoted me 230-245 for all factory oem clutch not sure if they make a difference or not, all the fibers in my clutch look pretty good, the insides were a little bad witch indicates not enough oil so I need to start soaking them good before burn out and the steals were black
The DragPack is a KG clutch. Just a FYI..
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CraigChrist
Pro
BAWLS
Posts: 1043
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posted June 17, 2010 05:34 AM
I know a few people that swear by keeping the clutch engaged and pulling the oil cap to let the heat dissipate... I generally pull my oil cap if I'm getting to hot lap 3 passes then let it cool.
By 100 passes do you mean you got 100 passes before mph started to drop? or do you mean that your clutches are completely shot?
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blackbullet76
Pro
Posts: 1134
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posted June 17, 2010 06:12 AM
quote:
Oh-geeze, don't worry with me. Just remember, a flat plate is the key ~ No warp pee. No matter how you keep it flat, do your thing. Whine it comes down to theory, only one is right. And if he is right with his theory, how come no one has made or ever came up with a clutch holder out the cover, or a lever holder, after decades of all sorts of guys racing bikes. Not even the car guys take a 2x4 and hold the clutch pedal down. I mean, go way back to the 3-speed and 1950's, pick a car event on dirt or keep picking and did any decade of guys come up with ideas to save a clutch? No magic signature 2x4 clutch holder for some 6-speed Vette. No, signature clutch munch mammoth watch me ride backwards.
Guess you're right. but ideas have to start somewhere. A longtime drag racer showed him this one night at the track and he started doing it and I tried it a few times myself. They remove the oil fill cap and ziptie the clutch open.
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2007 ZX-14 black
Brocks s-meg exhaust
PCIII w/track map
BMC race filter
Flies removed
16 tooth front sprocket
Speedohealer
APE cam chain tensioner
Vortex rearsets
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fbmbks
Expert Class
Posts: 226
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posted June 17, 2010 07:15 AM
turned the steels around clutch works great again, the flat part was on the inside
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speedgene
Zone Head
Posts: 996
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posted June 17, 2010 07:23 AM
[QUOTE]Guess you're right. but ideas have to start somewhere. A longtime drag racer showed him this one night at the track and he started doing it and I tried it a few times myself. They remove the oil fill cap and ziptie the clutch open.
That sounds like you take your muffler off so you can cool the engine down is remove an oil cap to cool the deepest clutch in the back. Same goes for that tre and I can set a code 3 ways is just one way that tre works using 3 fundamental moves. It keeps pointing back to 'Only one theory being right.' You cannot disputer 2+2 = 4 as in one is absolutely sipping on a , cap a tre know.
Maybe if you laid the plates out after a run, got them cool that way, I'd cap a plea.
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eklipse636
Needs a life
ZX-14
Posts: 6046
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posted June 17, 2010 08:06 AM
Removing the oil cap would allow fresh ai to get in around the clutches to cool them. I'm not sure about zip tying the lever, I could see it warping the steels as they cooled. I dunno
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LeonidasZX14
Pro
Posts: 1277
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posted June 17, 2010 02:02 PM
I use a fan with the oil cap off and the lever zip tied. You can tell a big difference on the outside temp of the clutch cover. If you spread the clutches apart and move cool air over them then I would have to assume that they would cool quicker. That is why I do it.
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ninjaboy311
Zone Head
Posts: 940
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posted June 17, 2010 04:27 PM
All I have ever done is use a floor dryer blower aimed right at my clutch cover. That's it. I never ever remove the oil cap.
I've seen where cold air shooting into the clutches can shock (warp) the steels when they are really hot. Gradual cooling is good, but instant cold air in there can warp the plates.
Also, seen too many times where people forget to put the fill cap back on, either completely, or they don't screw it on enough, and they go down the track and spray oil everywhere.
I run 2 classes on Friday nights, and if I start winning rounds in each, then I have to start hot lapping. Never ever had a clutch issue. I usually get about 10 minutes worth of cooling from the blower shooting on the clutch cover, and thats it. I do run Amsoil, so that could be helping my clutches from cooking. All I can say is that after near 2000 passes on this bike, I have NEVER warped a single steal, and NEVER burnt a clutch plate. I get 250-400 passes from a set of fibers, and the steels get barely discolored. Another contributing factor is that I barely ride the clutch out due to my long wheelbase. So I can see how bikes with a shorter wheelbase would go through clutches more frequently.
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
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posted June 17, 2010 04:45 PM
Test and tune nights i hot lap as many as 4 or 5 times if i get the chance ..No cool down at all .. I never remove the oil fill plug , i never zip tie the level .. I don't even lean the bike over before each pass ..I get 200 passes out of a set of clutches .. Somewhere around 200 passes i replace them even if they are not slipping ..Like i said before i have put the steels in both ways and has made no difference on how long they last ... Long wheel base or short i get the same 200 runs with no problems ..
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted June 17, 2010 04:52 PM
Oh by the way i have 15 used sets of clutches for sale ... Only lightly used .. 
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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Bently
Needs a life
2012 14r In Blue and no Mods!
Posts: 5428
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posted June 17, 2010 05:01 PM
quote:
Test and tune nights i hot lap as many as 4 or 5 times if i get the chance ..No cool down at all .. I never remove the oil fill plug , i never zip tie the level .. I don't even lean the bike over before each pass ..I get 200 passes out of a set of clutches .. Somewhere around 200 passes i replace them even if they are not slipping ..Like i said before i have put the steels in both ways and has made no difference on how long they last ... Long wheel base or short i get the same 200 runs with no problems ..
I agree. I hot lap like crazy nothing for us to do 23 to 25 passes in 2 hours. never zip tie or pull the fill cap. also don't think tipping the bike to it's side does anything either. I get over 300 passes from my clutches.
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
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posted June 17, 2010 05:05 PM
quote:
Oh by the way i have 15 used sets of clutches for sale ... Only lightly used ..
i'll trade you 4 rods
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