ninjacurt
Parking Attendant
Idiot
Posts: 2
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posted June 12, 2010 09:08 PM
Boiled front brakes ZX14
Any history of overheating front brakes and boiling off the fluid on front calipers. Mine cooked and resulted in a crash. What is best replacement brake available. Bike had fairly fresh DOT 4 fliuid. I was told that for my riding style would need synthetic. DOT 4 boils at much lower temp than synthetic.
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INTIMIDA2OR

Needs a life
RED rider!
Posts: 13081
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posted June 12, 2010 11:11 PM
Yes ! I had that brake fade once with the stock fluid and that was enough.
I swapped the fluid out for the motul RBF 600 brake fluid and never had an issue.
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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blackbullet76

Pro
Posts: 1134
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posted June 12, 2010 11:35 PM
I experienced some front brake fade during some heavy braking at 100+ mph. Only happened once though, still running stock pads and fluid.
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2007 ZX-14 black
Brocks s-meg exhaust
PCIII w/track map
BMC race filter
Flies removed
16 tooth front sprocket
Speedohealer
APE cam chain tensioner
Vortex rearsets
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LAB3

Needs a job
Posts: 2977
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posted June 13, 2010 03:09 AM
quote: Any history of overheating front brakes and boiling off the fluid on front calipers. Mine cooked and resulted in a crash. What is best replacement brake available. Bike had fairly fresh DOT 4 fliuid. I was told that for my riding style would need synthetic. DOT 4 boils at much lower temp than synthetic.
Welome, another new 14. Man you are really hard on brakes.
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Bigbore4
Zone Head
Posts: 806
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posted June 13, 2010 05:43 AM
Any chance that your riding style led to the crash?
For a big bike, the 14's have got really good brakes.
Even pro racers don't necessarily use synthetic fluids.
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Shane661

Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted June 13, 2010 05:52 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 13 Jun 2010 13:54
Look at the condition of the entire system, do regular maintenance, and boiling fluid should not be a problem:
PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE
Many experts have long recommend changing the brake fluid every year or two for preventative maintenance. Their rationale is based on the fact that glycol-based brake fluid starts to absorb moisture from the moment it is put in the system. The fluid attracts moisture through microscopic pores in rubber hoses, past seals and exposure to the air. The problem is obviously worse in wet climates where humidity is high.
After only a year of service, the brake fluid in the average vehicle may contain as much as two percent water. After 18 months, the level of contamination can be as high as three percent. And after several years of service, it’s not unusual to find brake fluid that contains as much as seven to eight percent water.
An NHTSA survey found that the brake fluid in 20% of 1,720 vehicles sampled contained 5% or more water!
As the concentration of moisture increases, it causes a sharp drop in the fluid’s boiling temperature. Brand new DOT 3 brake fluid must have a dry (no moisture) boiling point of at least 401 degrees F, and a wet (moisture-saturated) boiling point of no less than 284 degrees. Most new DOT 3 fluids exceed these requirements and have a dry boiling point that ranges from 460 degrees up to over 500 degrees.
Only one percent water in the fluid can lower the boiling point of a typical DOT 3 fluid to 369 degrees. Two percent water can push the boiling point down to around 320 degrees, and three percent will take it all the way down to 293 degrees—which is getting dangerously close to the minimum DOT and OEM requirements.
DOT 4 fluid, which has a higher minimum boiling temperature requirement (446 degrees F dry and 311 degrees wet) soaks up moisture at a slower rate but suffers an even sharper drop in boiling temperature as moisture accumulates. Three percent water will lower it’s boiling point as much as 50%!
Considering the fact that today’s front-wheel drive brake systems with semi-metallic linings run significantly hotter than their rear-wheel drive counterparts, high brake temperatures require fluid that can take the heat. But as we said earlier, the brake fluid in many of today’s vehicles can’t because it’s old and full of moisture.
Water contamination increases the danger of brake failure because vapor pockets can form if the fluid gets too hot. Vapor displaces fluid and is compressible, so when the brakes are applied the pedal may go all the way to the floor without applying the brakes!
In addition to the safety issue, water-laden brake fluid promotes corrosion and pitting in caliper pistons and bores, wheel cylinders, master cylinders, steel brake lines and ABS modulators.
Hope this helps.
Shane
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NinjaNick

Needs a job
'08 ZX14 (Blue)
Posts: 4558
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posted June 13, 2010 06:10 AM
I've always ridden my bike stupid hard on twistys cuz I love them. Breaking really hard comes with that. I've never had that issue and I've also upgraded to steel lines which makes amazing stopping power as well.
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LAB3

Needs a job
Posts: 2977
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posted June 13, 2010 06:47 AM
quote: I've always ridden my bike stupid hard on twistys cuz I love them. Breaking really hard comes with that. I've never had that issue and I've also upgraded to steel lines which makes amazing stopping power as well.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2461/4326237277_21bd6f6d65_b.jpg
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Quarter Pounder

Pro
with Cheese
Posts: 1069
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posted June 13, 2010 08:04 AM
Just what were you doing to cause this?
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SWB 2008 ZX-14
9.19 @ 151
5.98 @ 123
1.53 60'
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Shane661

Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted June 13, 2010 08:19 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 13 Jun 2010 16:21
quote: Just what were you doing to cause this?
If you read my above post, it looks like water in the brake system:
quote: DOT 4 fluid, which has a higher minimum boiling temperature requirement (446 degrees F dry and 311 degrees wet) soaks up moisture at a slower rate but suffers an even sharper drop in boiling temperature as moisture accumulates. Three percent water will lower it’s boiling point as much as 50%!
I don't think there is any way you are going to boil the brakes otherwise, during normal operation.
Shane
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INTIMIDA2OR

Needs a life
RED rider!
Posts: 13081
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posted June 13, 2010 09:41 AM
quote: Look at the condition of the entire system, do regular maintenance, and boiling fluid should not be a problem:
PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE
Many experts have long recommend changing the brake fluid every year or two for preventative maintenance. Their rationale is based on the fact that glycol-based brake fluid starts to absorb moisture from the moment it is put in the system. The fluid attracts moisture through microscopic pores in rubber hoses, past seals and exposure to the air. The problem is obviously worse in wet climates where humidity is high.
After only a year of service, the brake fluid in the average vehicle may contain as much as two percent water. After 18 months, the level of contamination can be as high as three percent. And after several years of service, it’s not unusual to find brake fluid that contains as much as seven to eight percent water.
An NHTSA survey found that the brake fluid in 20% of 1,720 vehicles sampled contained 5% or more water!
As the concentration of moisture increases, it causes a sharp drop in the fluid’s boiling temperature. Brand new DOT 3 brake fluid must have a dry (no moisture) boiling point of at least 401 degrees F, and a wet (moisture-saturated) boiling point of no less than 284 degrees. Most new DOT 3 fluids exceed these requirements and have a dry boiling point that ranges from 460 degrees up to over 500 degrees.
Only one percent water in the fluid can lower the boiling point of a typical DOT 3 fluid to 369 degrees. Two percent water can push the boiling point down to around 320 degrees, and three percent will take it all the way down to 293 degrees—which is getting dangerously close to the minimum DOT and OEM requirements.
DOT 4 fluid, which has a higher minimum boiling temperature requirement (446 degrees F dry and 311 degrees wet) soaks up moisture at a slower rate but suffers an even sharper drop in boiling temperature as moisture accumulates. Three percent water will lower it’s boiling point as much as 50%!
Considering the fact that today’s front-wheel drive brake systems with semi-metallic linings run significantly hotter than their rear-wheel drive counterparts, high brake temperatures require fluid that can take the heat. But as we said earlier, the brake fluid in many of today’s vehicles can’t because it’s old and full of moisture.
Water contamination increases the danger of brake failure because vapor pockets can form if the fluid gets too hot. Vapor displaces fluid and is compressible, so when the brakes are applied the pedal may go all the way to the floor without applying the brakes!
In addition to the safety issue, water-laden brake fluid promotes corrosion and pitting in caliper pistons and bores, wheel cylinders, master cylinders, steel brake lines and ABS modulators.
Hope this helps.
Shane
Great read!
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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INTIMIDA2OR

Needs a life
RED rider!
Posts: 13081
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posted June 13, 2010 09:45 AM
A pretty good example of brake fkuid absorbing water is your hands.
If you ever had to work on a bunch of brake systems or if you have a shop and do it on a pretty regular basis, then you will learn quick that you don't want that brake fluid stuff on your hands for long periods of time cause it will dry your skin out to the point that they will be chapped and or the skin breaking . Mostly between your fingers . Don't ask how I know
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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zixxer14

Pro
Damn that was Quick
Posts: 1233
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posted June 13, 2010 11:26 AM
I've been using Valvoline DOT4 synthetic for quite awhile with no problems. I get it at Autozone but it should be available elsewhere. Not expensive either.
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FasterThanStink

Pro
Posts: 1218
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posted June 13, 2010 02:49 PM
If your brake fluid (or clutch fluid) is brown it has moisture in it. Change it. End of story.
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Speed has never killed anyone,
suddenly becoming stationary...
That's what gets you.
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Bigbore4
Zone Head
Posts: 806
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posted June 13, 2010 02:55 PM
That's a fact. Standard fluid should be almost clear or very light amber colored when It's new. That reminds me, I need to flush out a couple of mine.
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dcjens
Pro
Wet side of Washington
Posts: 1059
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posted June 13, 2010 08:19 PM
2 yrs now...hmm time to change it
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Black 06
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INTIMIDA2OR

Needs a life
RED rider!
Posts: 13081
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posted June 13, 2010 11:43 PM
quote: If your brake fluid (or clutch fluid) is brown it has moisture in it. Change it. End of story.
+1!
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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SLVR_BLT

Zone Head
Chicken Strips!
Posts: 589
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posted June 14, 2010 10:45 AM
I run Motul RBF600, Galfer SS lines and EBC HH pads. Brakes work phenomenally. In fact my ZX14 can out brake my Gixxer 750.
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2006 Kawasaki ZX14, Muzzy Full Titanium Exhaust w/ Carbon Can, PCIII, BMC Street Filter
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gilberjj

Needs a job
Friend of Fast
Posts: 3196
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posted June 14, 2010 03:24 PM
I've only gotten brake fade one time. I was doing repeated pulls to 150+, braking hard, turning around and doing it again. After about 3 round trips, my brakes got mushy. 10 mins later they were fine.
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SLVR_BLT

Zone Head
Chicken Strips!
Posts: 589
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posted June 14, 2010 05:03 PM
Whats shocking is the avg motorist and motorcyclist doesn't even bother to change the fluid or bleed the brakes unless it was for the purpose of installing new lines? Its amazing how many people don't really service their brakes besides pad changes.
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2006 Kawasaki ZX14, Muzzy Full Titanium Exhaust w/ Carbon Can, PCIII, BMC Street Filter
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