wrongway
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posted April 27, 2010 01:18 PM
differences in injectors
Has anyone flowed the zx14 injectors ? I have heard that the '08 & up flow more but I have my doubts.
I did send both types of injectors to a shop to have them flow tested and resized. It looks like the newer injectors may not be good for resizing because the 12 hole pattern doesnt leave much room.
If the older ones can be resized , it is 25 bucks each to do that. He said that new injectors milled to fit would be $55 bucks each , plus the connectors.
Hoping to get the stock flow numbers and resizing info later this week.
Roy
  
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kingtramp
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posted April 27, 2010 04:39 PM
 Edited By: kingtramp on 28 Apr 2010 00:41
Had 10 hole 2006 zx14 injector flowed about a ago year injector flow range from 408 to 412 cc per minute, had 08 12 hole injector flowed 2008 zx14, injector flow range from 330 to 340 cc per, using 08 injector will atomize fuel better, however you will have to increase pulse width about 8 to12%
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wrongway
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posted April 27, 2010 04:52 PM
so the '08 & up 12 hole flow less ?
Roy
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kingtramp
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posted April 27, 2010 05:06 PM
Yes Roy from the numbers I recieved 08's flowed less than 06/07, both sets flowed by MPS , if you have both style injectors take a close look at the size of the hole of 10 hole injector compared to the 12 hole, yes 08 has 12 holes, but they are much smaller then 10 hole. When I tried 12 hole injector AFR went from 12.6- 12.9 at idle to 13.8-14.2, I had to add fuel 10-12 % low rpm, 8-9% mid, 7-8% high rpm. Did not see any performance advantage.Testing was track testing, no dyno comparsion.
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oldkawboy
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posted April 27, 2010 06:25 PM
Are the throttle bodies the same? I remember something about the angle of the spray pattern was different and I don't know if it was accomplished through the bodies or just the injectors..........any ideas?
Kingtramp,
Did you swap complete throttle bodies or just install the newer injectors into your older bodies?
Thanks,
Dan
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gilberjj
Needs a job
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posted April 27, 2010 06:33 PM
That's cool news...... cause I want to use e85.
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kingtramp
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posted April 27, 2010 06:36 PM
The angle you are refering to, is the angle shape of the spray cone, I believe 06 is 15 degree 08 is 20degree. I am not sure about throttle bodies, I switch only injectors, thinking 12 holes would flow more then 10 holes, however dumb me did not reseach deep enough. Micron size of 12 hole injector great deal smaller than 10 hole injector.
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oldkawboy
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posted April 27, 2010 07:12 PM
Thanks King for the reply.
Dan
Thanks to you too Roy for the info. Look forward to reading the results.
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speedgene
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posted April 27, 2010 07:27 PM
Tramp, say you got some of it right. It's more reversed like I think in the reverse. You made a mistake. I have a disease.
First year Injector (Throttle) body is angled 15° and more hits itself (the wall) with the spray. Spray pattern [ O ] is full circle 10 holes.
First improved injector body angle is set at 20° so now the spray hits more in the center of the port and not at the wall like it was aimed before with the old throttle body. The spray pattern changed to a 12 pattern spray [ ( ) ] with a split column of 6 holes each. They basically look pretty much what they look like in the brackets. Evenly divide the holes and there is your mist pattern.
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wrongway
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posted April 28, 2010 06:02 AM
HUB , what makes you say it is a split pattern ????? it is a conical spray pattern , just wider .
are you trying to prove you are an E-TARD ?
Roy
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68gts2
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posted April 28, 2010 06:10 AM
Ccccccccccome-on Wrongway don't get Gene going,I can't stand the head-ache his rants cause this early in the week.
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Chromed-out,in the dirt 08SE with all the good stuff!!!
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wrongway
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posted April 28, 2010 06:30 AM
I dont have a problem getting him going .... doesnt bother me at all.... and everyone else can put him on the ignore list.... if everyone ignores his post , its as good as banning him.
Roy
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speedgene
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posted April 28, 2010 07:59 AM
quote:
I dont have a problem getting him going .... doesnt bother me at all.... and everyone else can put him on the ignore list.... if everyone ignores his post , its as good as banning him.
Roy
Thanks, Roy. I agree. Throw me in the bin. Chronic complainers on the net need a good insult. It is not my problem you can't tune the bike up, Roy and I butt heads. Are we not on the same plain trying to tune the bike up to some level?
Wholeeeshit, I gotta hear some semanticshit about one spray head to another [get it right] and now I need to explain [literally], the hew of some asshole who is anal retentive anyway? And no, ww, this is not getting on your case or directed at hew. It's just universal in nature, so I'll try to explain it as such. What is the difference between a degree difference you still can produce HP like there is always something in the way of tuning the bike, I need to know the spray's nomenclature?
A rose is a rose is a gray hew to my porcelain is what I'm looking for.
What do I care how it sprays out at, where it hits, how pretty it looks and what you call it. Does it puddle back to droplets rather than maintain a mist? Compress? Like, compress the mist to a liquid again? Do I need to know FPM, or the spray pattern name?
Think my plug gives a shit, we look down there at it's cock ring?
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E-tard
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68gts2
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posted April 28, 2010 11:00 AM
UGH!!!
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Chromed-out,in the dirt 08SE with all the good stuff!!!
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wrongway
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posted April 28, 2010 02:16 PM
quote:
quote:
I dont have a problem getting him going .... doesnt bother me at all.... and everyone else can put him on the ignore list.... if everyone ignores his post , its as good as banning him.
Roy
Roy and I butt heads. Are we not on the same plain trying to tune the bike up to some level?
not really ,,,, I actually post facts and show test results ...
and set a record every now an then ..
Roy
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speedgene
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posted April 28, 2010 03:22 PM
And there you go, Roy. See, It was more for the 'ugh-men' of the web. Now, be fair, ww. Was it not a fact I have to bring up the fact that since 1999 when I left the bike industry, I more corralled that dumbass tre shit?
Fact is, I was still beating up the Cheezemister for pulling clutch plate for something he could never solder back to> another gear? Right? Bought a computer bike. Taught myself FI and am still learning. My bike is all aboutthaTRE.
Set the record straight. I'm too lazy. I do not need to prove I can tune that bike and dump tons of money into a tax bracket I cannot keep up with. The rider, maybe. Yeah, when I was too old to race and held my own. Pro's retire at that age I started.
I put my mind to beating whoever the fuck showed up I was going to take trophy and guess WOT. I have personal records no one can take away, thank you and yeah, so do you, I'm sure.
Now, Mr. 220hm, you and your buddies my have some EE background, but all I have is the factory service manual no one seems to follow. So, I came back in 2006 and cracked a page explaining I ain't here to measure dicks.
Are we going to make the bike faster every which way or you want to measure length, case in point... You should hear the ladies comment if you want to talk about how they record their records.... You know the X to Y factor? Yeah, that fact tore > the other way.
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speedgene
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posted April 28, 2010 04:18 PM
Edited By: speedgene on 29 Apr 2010 00:21
Here is a fact. You may see some strange air moves running that flow bench. Fact is, I cannot see how you can close off that air, I'm looking at open holes. Fact. Tell me how you are going to close them at the WOT. How do you close them at idle? Fact is, you don't. You can't.
Fact is, you remove that needle and now; can we see an A/F ratio change yet? I just wanted to get the facts straight, my question was never answered, being the fact is yes, that air is moving at every sucking stroke. Show me any other way and I well call it BS.
I listen to some BS abstract telling me that air screw is not in proportion with the whole run up the open throttle. Is that WOT you are telling me? I hear that tumble, I might as well listen to the BS the whole throttle body port closes down I look at a flow bench like a low speed hole.
Here is your headache for the day; You gave me the homework assignment. Get back to me when you can see the linear that you cannot separate the two open holes. They act the same closed as open is that a fact, yes or no is the, "Constant" even [pun] at all 3 holes.
14.7 psi at all 3 holes =Yes it's BS. No way hose say. I don't know with this headache going on, let me get back to you.
1. IAP?
2. Low screw?
3. Body port?
I think someone is full of shit I am about to hear someone explain away the low speed screw is ]not[ interlocked all the way up till the connecting rod leaves the case is closed on my anal retentive end.
Difference in same body style, different injector color and hole spray; will be known to me within a few days. If there is a dramatic change, then yes it is the injector, no it is not the duty cycle. This all make sense?
The math is so interlocking elegant, I can't be the only one who sees it in the air flow is that bullshit practical event right before your very eyes and it's just useless information I have a flow bench.
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wrongway
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posted May 03, 2010 06:24 AM
after working with 2 different fuel injections shops I should have somethign to test soon.
2 different solutions...
first is an EV14 ( 600cc) that needs an adapter to reduce the top size to fit the stock rail. this will make the injector 12 mm taller and comes with pigtails for thewiring harness.
second is a LS9 ev14 ( 550 cc) milled to drop in the zx14 stock rail and throttle bodies. comes with wiring adapter .. A true drop in solution. it does have a narrower spray pattern, but I think that is less of an issue with E85 than gas. these can be resized if you need them to flow more.
Both are right at $280
As for the stock injectors,,,, Kingtramp was right on the money .... '06 injectors flowed 440 cc , '08 flowed 330 cc . Neither can be modified ( resized)
Roy
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Compton
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posted May 03, 2010 06:48 AM
i'd be up for a set of Ls9 injectors. how soon will they be marketed?
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b.w.
zx14, little longer, little louder, little lower.
08 Busa, just a little longer and louder and lower than the 14
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wrongway
Pro
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posted May 03, 2010 07:37 AM
quote:
i'd be up for a set of Ls9 injectors. how soon will they be marketed?
marketed ??? you just call up the shop and ask for it ... seems like a great bunch of guys. They can custom make anything . PM me for a phone number . They said mine will be shipped tomorrow . I am sure they can mill another set at the same time , or you can wait for me to get them in and tested.
Roy
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gilberjj
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posted May 03, 2010 03:11 PM
dang....... $290 is a great deal. However, do you have any timing control. When you throw in larger injectors and only have a fuel controller, you will end up getting an aggressive timing map. All the pc is doing is tricking the ecu.
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wrongway
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posted May 03, 2010 03:54 PM
quote:
dang....... $290 is a great deal. However, do you have any timing control. When you throw in larger injectors and only have a fuel controller, you will end up getting an aggressive timing map. All the pc is doing is tricking the ecu.
not sure I understand that statement. Why would you think that timing would be any different than stock?
stock timing with E85 seems pretty conservative. I added 5 degrees timing with a SB6 and saw no HP change.
Roy
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gilberjj
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posted May 03, 2010 04:42 PM
Well, I'm pretty sure that the power commander works like my old Map-ecu fuel controller I had on my Supra....... that is what I'm basing this logic on......
Right now, inside the ecu is a table that says, at x% throttle, use x amount of timing. When using the stock fuel injectors, this works great, because you get the wot timing map at close to actual wot fuel map (though we adjust it a little with the power commander).
However, when you throw on bigger injectors that are say 20% larger, you will need roughly 20% less fuel at any given throttle input or rpm. So, in order to run the right a/f ratio at 100% throttle, you will be accessing a TIMING map that is the 80% throttle (which is more advanced then what you want). I am guessing that with e85, it won't matter all that much, but the bigger the injector, the more aggressive the timing map becomes.
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wrongway
Pro
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posted May 03, 2010 04:49 PM
no , with the power commander I will just be changing the duty cycle of the injector at 100% tps( or anywhere else on the map). Right now I am at +60 % and the injectors are maxed. With the new injectors , that number should change to +20%
Roy
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01smokes
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posted May 03, 2010 05:18 PM
dont mess around guys get the botch 725s they are bad ass and idle just like stock and you can crank full pressure over 100psi and run the duty at 100% with out having them lock open
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