Ninjabogey
Parking Attendant
Posts: 7
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posted May 29, 2011 01:12 AM
Hi Treiber
I need a clean rpm signal as the coils are noisy and only drop to 2.8v. The traction control is looking for 2v or less. Resisted and other attempts to clean up the signal resulted in a poorer leading edge that gave spurious pulses 
My manual suggested pin 1 and 18 at the ecu so I spliced in to these wires. We tried different bit rates but got no data. Hence the 120ohmn termination thought as I have no clocks as it is installed in a race car. I will double check the wires and try agin with 500k.
Thanks for the info about pc3. Won't waste time on that.
Very frustrating and beyond my knowledge/capability. I appreciate your help/time.
Thanks
Paul
  
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ZZR-Treiber
Parking Attendant
Posts: 17
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posted May 29, 2011 02:16 AM
Hi Paul,
Pin 1+18 for the can bus is correct. A higher resistor will not help. Please note that the
can bus signal has no useable level against ground. You have to measure between canH + canL.
Maybe you have a problem with your analyser. Your analyser should only read in a loop. You cannot
request a message on the bus. The ECU and the gauge only send messages without any request at
500Kbit/s and 11 Bit ID (IMPORTANT !!!). Using 29 Bit identifier will result in reading nothing.
Cheers
Holger
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NinjaNick
Needs a job
'08 ZX14 (Blue)
Posts: 4558
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posted May 29, 2011 06:01 AM
I instantly thought of "cannibus" when I saw the thread title.
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Ninjabogey
Parking Attendant
Posts: 7
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posted May 29, 2011 01:50 PM
Thanks Holger. I will follow up on your info and let you know if I have any success.
Cheers
Paul
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wrongway
Pro
Posts: 1078
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posted May 29, 2011 02:41 PM
quote:
Hi Holger
I tried 500kb but I got no data as I don't have any clocks. I am liaising with a company to try and get a clean rpm signal working for a traction control. They assured me that their box would complete the circuit but obviously it does not. I could use my pc3 but don't know which wires would be can hi or low and you have pc5.
For completing the circuit without the clocks I was told that canbus always uses 120ohmn? Maybe worth a try?
If I find out anything I will post it here.
Good luck and thanks for replying.
Paul
I have only used a canbus analyzer to read the data on the canbus, I have not terminated the canbus with it .
Maybe the ECU want t see data from the gauge cluster ? The guage does send water temp back to the ECU....
or maybe there is a problem with terminating the canbus.
Roy
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Ninjabogey
Parking Attendant
Posts: 7
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posted May 29, 2011 03:02 PM
Hi Roy
Thanks for replying. Can you share the id and settings for the rpm feed please then I can focus on getting the canbus terminated with what I believe needs to be a 120ohmn resistor. Making progress I think 
Thanks guys
Cheers
Paul
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tomari
Parking Attendant
Posts: 15
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posted May 31, 2011 11:59 AM
 Edited By: tomari on 31 May 2011 20:00
hey! im working on a datalogger through the diagnostic port of the zx6, i'll have the KDS 3 system and KDS cables in a few days thanks to a friend that will give it to me. im planning to sniff the communication protocol and see how the KDS talks to the ECU. im pretty sure tha it doesn't really talk to it, since it uses onle 3 from the 4 wires. the 2 are +12v and GND and 1 is communication line, there is a possibility that it is a duble state line that sits in RECIVE state until it recieves a byte and then replies what was asked. everything is going to clear out when i get the cables and set everything up. If there is succes on this then no splicing of cable or anything just connect to the diagnostic port. anyone wanna help?
im sure the protocol is tha same or need a little modification for all kawasaki bikes with this connector.
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wrongway
Pro
Posts: 1078
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posted May 31, 2011 12:09 PM
i think the diagnostics are the same for all ,,, that may or may not be easier to use than the canbus. canbus is a standard and very common... chips/interfaces are readily available. The protocol on the KDI bus may be proprietary so that may take some custom software.
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tomari
Parking Attendant
Posts: 15
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posted May 31, 2011 12:30 PM
thanks for the reply and yes, its gonna be hard on the first time, its gonna need an arduino based device or something for the logger but i cant tell untill i see how it works. after this im gonna develop this thing and pass it to the world. everything, schematics, firmware etc. there is so much info on this connector! canbus from guage to ecu only contains what u see on the guage if there is no pcv am i right?
imagine what u can see from KDI, lean angle, temp, gear position, o2 reading AFR, rpm, faults....the list is huge!
for the beggining i plan to use an RS232 logger and log incomming and outgoing data while working on the KDS 3 on the laptop
there are two possibilities here
1) KDS talks (or just hears) to the ECU "directly" and that little box on the KDS cables is just an rs232 to TTL converter or something
2) KDS talks (or just hears) to that little box, that talks (or just hears) to the ECU on a different interface/language and then translates or filters data and sends them to the KDS software.
the seccond one is harder than the first but its not unbreakable, the signal is there...
i hope i find some help here!
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wrongway
Pro
Posts: 1078
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posted May 31, 2011 02:54 PM
no lean angle ,,, tip over switch is off or on ...
O2 sensor on euro models may be narrow band --- i dont have one on the US model
diagnostic port may be bidirectional ... some OBD2 send request as well as receive data. I tried to use an OBD2 scanner on the KDI port , but I never could get a connection to the scanner. I am guessing that it is using a japanese based protocol ( JOBD) on this port sine the US does not require OBD2 on motorcycles
does anyone sell a motorcycle scan tool for the jap bikes? if there is , then you may get a hint at what protocols are being used.
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tomari
Parking Attendant
Posts: 15
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posted May 31, 2011 10:35 PM
im from europe, there are 2 different o2 sensors on the eu bike, the price of the original one is 240euro and the other costs 190 (dealer price) we connected them at the oposite connectors and got an o2 sensor error it might have both of them! im pretty sure first info on the KDS was lean angle! but i had only 2 minutes to play with the KDS, everything will clear in a couple of days!
ill check if i can find a JOBD scan tool to test too thanks!
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tomari
Parking Attendant
Posts: 15
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posted June 01, 2011 12:02 AM
this cheap tool claims to read JOBD may i give it a try?
http://www.woomaa.com/p10899/
what is your opinion?
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wrongway
Pro
Posts: 1078
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posted June 01, 2011 04:04 AM
that has the same chip as the scan I tried .... i could not get it to sync up.
maybe this one is a better choice..http://www.strategictq.com/Motorcycle.html
Roy
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wrongway
Pro
Posts: 1078
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posted June 01, 2011 05:10 AM
now this is cool ...http://www.shadowfax.co.uk/downloads/biketech/biketech%20obd/documents/biketech%20obd.pdf
scanner and datalogger ....says it can log all the internal channels
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tomari
Parking Attendant
Posts: 15
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posted June 01, 2011 05:29 AM
yeah for € 1.049,85 why not to buy KDS?
there must be a cheaper way, i asked RR maybe he can take a look at the code of the ecu he has but no reply yet!
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wrongway
Pro
Posts: 1078
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posted June 01, 2011 05:52 PM
there is some hope ... I found a kawasaki 4 pin - 16pin obd2 adapter ...i would guess that means that a standard obd2 scanner could work on the KDI port.
http://www.autotestaid.com/productindex.asp?bigclassid=4
Roy
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tomari
Parking Attendant
Posts: 15
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posted June 01, 2011 08:46 PM
woohoo! thats some great news!
gonna give it a try!
im sure this is new product because i searched the exact string
"Kawasaki 4P M Plug to OBDII" two days ago and couldn't find anything!
there was only the Kawasaki 8P M Plug to OBDII
i asked for the price and waiting a reply!
maybe this could save me weeks of work!!
wrongway, you are the man!
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wrongway
Pro
Posts: 1078
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posted June 02, 2011 08:32 AM
I made an adapter and tried to bring up a 1941-2 link... I am using an ELM 327 1.3 chip ,,, i see that the application says that the link initialized, but I get no data back from the ECU .... maybe there is a password required? someone has figured it out , or there would not be any aftermarket scanners available ...
Roy
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tomari
Parking Attendant
Posts: 15
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posted June 02, 2011 09:25 AM
what pin configuration are tou using?
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wrongway
Pro
Posts: 1078
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posted June 02, 2011 10:52 AM
this is also good...
http://www.healtech-electronics.com/download/OBD-Tool_Intro_en.pdf
healthtech is also making tuning device that uses the diagnostic port.... pretty cool.
Roy
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tomari
Parking Attendant
Posts: 15
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posted June 02, 2011 11:21 AM
Edited By: tomari on 2 Jun 2011 19:23
their Gipro device also read Gear position from the KDI port.
im sure is a trick on the protocol somehow...
on saturday im goin to do a little test on the original KDS system connector, any suggestions/questions on what to test? its a nice oprtunity...
i mailed them and tried to fish info about the communication protocl but got this:
"Sorry but we can not share any details about the communication protocol."
hehe
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tomari
Parking Attendant
Posts: 15
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posted June 02, 2011 11:40 AM
wrongway what program do you use with the ELM 327 1.3 chip ?
is there i link i can download? im thinking to use it with the original KDS setup and see if it works.
if you have any other software i can test, (just the names, or links) let me know!
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wrongway
Pro
Posts: 1078
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posted June 02, 2011 12:28 PM
email me at brooksracing@bellsouth.net ...
Roy
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PetriK
Parking Attendant
Posts: 30
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posted July 27, 2011 06:13 AM
Edited By: PetriK on 27 Jul 2011 14:15
Hi chaps,
I did the suzuki sds hacking a couple of years ago and now my friend who is a kawi enthusiastic is insisting on getting the kawasaki gaugedata hacked for tuning purposes.
Suzuki uses a simple KWP2000 protocol, none of the elm tools could interpret that one so we ended up writing the full protocol into ecueditor.com. Anyhow a VAG COM interface which uses an FTDI usb connection to PC is said to work with it.
Having seen so many software packages being able to read kawasaki sensor information, so it can not be too unique protocol that kawi is using.
Could you hint me what is the best source of information for understanding this topic more in detail...
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tomari
Parking Attendant
Posts: 15
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posted July 27, 2011 07:28 AM
hello my friend, unfortunately there is not a lot of info on the net about kawi interface. are you interested to do it via the diag port? or by inrcepting the wire that sends data to the guages? i have my hands on the USB (KDS3) and on the SERIAL(KDS2) diagnostic cables and maybe i can sniff the commands that the KDS diagnostic software sends. i did try some things:
facts:
bike: zx6r 2007
commounicates ONLY with the KDS3 software witch is using USB KDS adapter
i did try this:
stuffed up the KDS adapter and software and used a USB logger to log the commands
no luck i cant understand anything! USB bus is so difficult for me to understand and there is a lot of "system" traffic like speed checking, device status etc that spoils my logs, i see no difference in the logs when i send commands or not!
then i tried that:
connected the bike with USB KDS adapter and used the KDS3 software again but this time i connected like a T the RS232 KDS adapter too and tried logging the RS232 port this time. data came and go all the time BUT i have to figure out the correct bandwidth because the data that are logged are not what i expect.
what im gonna try now:
i just got a cheapo oscilloscope (witch is used pretty well on other projects like this) and i will measure the bit lenght to determine the bandwidth.
then if my RS232 port cant do the bandwidth that is used im going to buy a USB to RS232 adapter that can do
and finally im going to send diagnostic commands to the bike via the KDS3 system and log everything. voila!
am i in the right direction? its the first time i do it.
there is also an other thing.
on the KDS3 program there is a huge database file (access file) witch is passworded. i used an access password crack program and found the password of the file and oppened it up.
there are tables with everything! commands, protocol lists, even employee notes.
one interesting thing that makes me think that zx6r 2007 uses KWP protocol is this table named (ECU LIST) and has this info (i recall it from memory because im not on the pc with the databasefile)
ECU NUMBER| PROTOCOL| OTHER TABLES....| ECU ADDRESS
my ecu part no|KDS2.............|...................................|X11
other par no |KDS2 or 3 |..................................|no address for some bikes X8 for abs ecu
when i saw this X11 i reconed the first KWP command i ever saw "81 11 F1 81 04"
this command is also sent (i have it logged) by the older KDS2 adaptor and software
then it expects a five byte answare then a 3 byte and then a 126 byte
thats all the help i can give right now, i will be able to do the oscilloscope bandwidth test and command sniff thing in one or two weeks due to some other family things that keep me away from ECU playing right now.
pm me and i can mail you logs, database, etc
oh and one last thing analyzing KDSadapter.dll of the KDS usb driver there are some interesting calls
getdecimal
gethexadecimal
etc
i appreciate any shared info and help!
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